Is it a goal?

Time to move on....it was a $hit no call but that's soccer....it's not supposed to be fair.

 

I don't know if it should be considered a hand ball, but it looks like his shoulder or arm was over the line when it made contact. He is definetley leaning back when it comes back down on him, and his feet are right on the line, so that should mean his upper body is over the line.

 

first of all it was a goal, it did cross the line. Second if the ref. (and LINESMAN!!) were stupid enough to not see the goal then they should have at least called a penalty. I mean are you blind? I wish there was something someone could do because thats soccer, your job is to score goals and we did and it didn't count. But what can ya do?

 

handball = yes.
crossed the line = it did not.

i was sitting right on the line at CCS watching the game, the ball never crossed the line in it's entirety...why a hand ball wasn't called, well it's one of those mysteries that we'll never know the answer to.

 

Fid,
With all due respect, there is no way you could tell from your seats, watching that play at full speed, whether or not the ball fully crossed the line or not. Are you saying that you could determine, in person, that only part of the ball crossed the line, from over 100 feet away?? If you happened to have blinked at any point during that moment, you would have missed the ball crossing the line. The commentators on the broadcast even made the point to mention how difficult a call it was for the ref at game speed without the assistance of slo motion replay.

 

I may be blind but to me the ball goes from Johnson's head, off Martino's shoulder, caroms off the underside of the crossbar and then deflects down and off the outstretched arm of Martino. At the very least it should have resulted in a Penalty Kick.

 

According to this thread on the refs forum:
https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2466407#post2466407

MLS has decided that the ref made the correct call. I understand their reasoning, but I still maintain that the ball crossed the line when it came back down and hit the defender on his arm. He was clearly leaning back when it hit him and his feet were right on the line.

 

The commentators made the point that it was a very difficult call as to whether the ball crossed the goal line resulting in a goal. I agree with that.

The no brainer part of the call being it should have been a PK was some how missed by the blind as bat's officiating crew.

 

Well, if you follow the link I provided in my post above you can read MLS's viewpoint on the handball no call. I don't necessarily disagree with their position, but I think it's probably a play that gets called more often then not.

 

Actually, I disagree on the difficulty of the call. The linesman is on the goal line and responsible for nothing but determining whether the ball crosses the line. There is no one on the back post for the Crew and the keeper is off the line, so there was nothing to obstruct his view. It's a simple yes or no decision with no mitigating circumstances to impact his judgement. Which is why I think the ball probably did not cross the line.

I think the hand ball was a pretty simple call as well. The player clearly moved his arm to keep the ball out of the goal; it should have been a penalty. Heck, I've seen players sent off for having the ball hit their hand when it's down by their side and they just couldn't move it in time.

I seem to remember Sham saying this was the referee's first MLS game. I thought other than this call, he did an OK job. Unfortunately, this turned out to be a pretty important call.

 

https://www.bigsoccer.com/forum/showthread.php?t=109634

most of the people on the Crew forum think handball

 

oh, i guess i've got an opinion as well - i don't think handball (i think Martino is a spaz, but it wasn't deliberate and the Laws of the Game state that it has to be deliberate) or a goal, though i admit to not having a good enough perspective to make the second call.

 

Just threw my own two cents in on that ref discussion.

Bottom line - I agree with the no-goal and the first non-penatly kick call - on the shoulder.

But the second time - when his arm is moving TOWARDS the ball - what is not intentional about that?

 

just watched the video. should have been a PK. but thats life.

 

hey, nobody ever said i had good judgement!

 

Penalty Kick.

GD refs... Stupid blind ref. Him and Hugh Dallas conspiring to ruin my two favorite teams. If they ever come around here, why I'll...... Damn 3 day waiting and background checks on firearm purchases. I'm angry now and I'm gonna be angry tomorrow. Boy, if I ever see either of them.....

 

I think "2004 Hard-Working Eddie" is paying, in non-calls (and near-misses) for the bad karma built up by "Prior Years Whining Eddie"

(hopefully the non-calls aren't part of that "favor-the-established-player" syndrome in the minds of refs---I'm thinking of MLB's 'strike' calls and NBA's 'charging' calls sometimes favoring stars over newcomers.)

Leading to: karma gets paid off and there's a slew of "EJ-lazos" in near future! [Ed Johnson golazos]

OT: good name for a country-western band made up of Latin teachers: soooooo-EEE Generis

To whom it may concern, re: 'Flux' thread: Don't be 24 hrs. late to a very important date! You might be really (!) disappointed with the turn-out

 

Drugs are bad, m'kay

 

ok ok ok, lets just PRETEND for a second that he didn't intend to hit the ball with his arm (which is ridiculous conisering when it came off his shoulder he looked at it and wanted it out of the goal so he used his arm), the bottome line is he DENIED a goal by using his arm/hand that is a penalty! I don't care if he didn't mean to, his illegal parts denied us a goal and thats a penalty. You dont have to punish him with a card if it wasn't his fault (even though in this case it was) but it's a PK. Sorry if you didn't mean to, thats the game. Same in the US-Germany game, I don't care if Frings didn't mean to hit it with his OUTSTRETCHED hand, he denied a goal with his hand BOTTOM LINE, PK. If thats not a rule, it damn well should be.

man that pisses me off.

 

It's not a rule, but i think unless your arm is close in to your body, a handball shouldn't have to be deliberate to be called. FIFA and the FA disagree and haven't changed the Law in all this time, but they're a bunch of Europeans, so what do you expect?

 

Franz Beckenbauer agrees with burning247 that Frings shoulda been called for handball.

Which sorta sadly puts esteemed Hugh Dallas in that category of officials (see post #18) who favor the stars (in this case, Germany) over newcomers (U.S.A.) consciously, subconsciously, lo que sea.

Martino: upper-arm was intentional = handball

 

The laws of the game are so vague on the subject of handling that the ref is free to call a play like the one involving Martino any way he likes and be completely within the laws of the game. You think that just because the laws of the game specify that the handling must be "deliberate" that that's the end of the matter?

Define deliberate.

Martino could have clasped his hands behind his back like you see many defenders do when preparing to defend a cross in games with no margin of error like WC qualifiers or WC games. He could have avoided handling the ball that way, but he chose not to do so. If he could have avoided the handling, but chose not to, that's deliberate handling in the eyes of many refs and they are backed by the laws of the game if they choose to rule that way.

Am I upset or surprised that the call went the way it did? No. I consider it a home team call, much like the handling call on Darryl Powell in our first game that I seriously doubt would have been made if we were playing at Mile High Stadium. That's the game.

 

i like beer. i prefer Shiner, but Killian's at 4.00 a pitcher is good...

 

Nah, Shiner went downhill the day Corona bought them out. Ziegenbock is cheaper and tastes better to me. But at 4.00 a pitcher, I'll drink whatever is being served.