Is Bruce Arena a Jackass?

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by NietzscheIsDead, Jun 4, 2024.

  1. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think the argument is that they had to scratch and claw to make it in Europe. And the 2002 team did have a lot of guys on European rosters (12 of the 23 man roster).

    It’s also true that while the level of play in MLS was definitely lower than it is now, life in MLS was much harder.

    And at least myself I’ve never argued that players are made soft by being in MLS. It’s more that there are benefits to being in Europe if you can find the right situation/opportunity.
     
  2. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Wynalda episode drops tomorrow notably



    I’m sure he’ll have many provocative things to say.
     
  3. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm old enough remember that when people with an axe to grind will grind from both sides as it suits them.
     
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  4. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Great story there. Good for Eric.

    And not sure how, but Kate is just a straight smoke show now. That posture...
     
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  5. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I think someone mentioned these things are taped a bit in advance of release so there's probably a decent chance it was recorded before the game.

    I know people hate the guy, and he's definitely way too attached to social media, I don't like how much time he wastes on it, I'd like to think he was more dignified than me after a particularly nasty USMNT loss, but, no dice. Whatever it is that makes him so aggravating to so many is also what allowed him to succeed in Europe, at the WC, in MLS, and with the USMNT, and so I appreciate all of it, if its annoying at times. I like the guy, mostly and appreciate him and what he did pretty fully.
     
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  6. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Wynalda's just one of those guys who has burned a lot of bridges and then whines about how he's not getting opportunities. We see it in all of our chosen career fields. People who don't seem to get that they have to "play the game."

    ..........................but he's had a very successful career and is entertaining to listen to.

    As far as the question at hand: Is Bruce Arena a jackass? Yes. But he's also one of the most accomplished American coaches in history. See the Revolution before and after his tenure. Coaching matters. Being a jackass and great coach aren't mutually exclusive. See Bobby Knight and a gazillion other examples.
     
  7. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t think he’s a bad guy or anything but he does have very strong opinions (many of which I disagree with), and he’s definitely not afraid to he public about them in a way that can burn bridges.

    I haven’t finished watching the interview but I just got to the part where he basically said that every single USMNT coach has gotten the World Cup wrong in the modern era. I haven’t gotten to his rationale for that too.
     
  8. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    gotta get out of in front of this- get those little "defend ussf/mls/berhalter at all costs" engines running....
     
  9. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is the clip when he said every coach got it wrong.

     
  10. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    From what I got from that is that every coach got it wrong by trying to coach. But I think that's more Deuce. Maurice thinks its that we don't think we can win. I'm not sure what Wynalda means there as he kept getting cut off.

    I get why athletes feel this way, but I have no idea why anyone thinks the US would do better if it were playground ball.

    But you gotta believe in yourself.
     
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  11. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It’s also just like a coach is only going to make so much of a difference.

    It gets outsized attention because it’s the only input you can change in the moment but the real answer is we’ll start consistently beating big teams when we start consistently producing better players than those teams.

    All the angst these former players director towards USMNT coaches would be much better spent being directed towards concrete achievable steps we can take to improve the developmental system. Even in the developmental improvement some of these guys will just say things like “we should end pay to play.” Which yes would be great, but is not within the power of US Soccer to accomplish.
     
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  12. Bruce S

    Bruce S Member+

    Sep 10, 1999
    He was making a joke FFS
     
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  13. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    Which country with a top 5 league or are next to a top 5 league is getting overrated relative to the U.S.?
     
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  14. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I tend to think this is more about Wynalda than about USMNT coaches. He has a tendency to go over the top with criticism of coaches not named Wynalda. He's still trying to portray himself as a genius coach based on a single surprising US Open Cup run, even though his coaching career has been unimpressive since then.
     
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  15. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    #165 grandinquisitor28, Jun 15, 2024
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2024
    Maybe look at the individual tournaments:
    Gansler: Mindset wrong for the Czechoslovakia match?

    Bora: Got too conservative w/the Brazil match? Didn't handle Tab injury right?

    Sampson: Stupid system, fight with Harkes, control, control, control. Germany kills us.

    Arena: '02 I wonder which match he means because honestly the only one where the team really got it wrong was the Poland match.

    '06: Well, definitely sounds like Bruce and the guys were greatly intimidated by the Czech's in '06.

    '10: Bob definitely got the Ghana lineup wrong in '10.

    '14: Mentality for the WC before they even stepped out against Belgium maybe?

    '22: I always felt the Dutch game was lost based upon how tired the players were, they'd run nearly twice as many miles in the group stage as the Dutch: just too tired period, but they definitely were not well prepared for that match.
     
  16. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Sometimes the rival is just better than you.
     
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  17. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think England (PL) overpays for English players and if salaries are part of a rating then that inflates their rating. We'll see as they seem about to win something soon but with all their players in the most expensive league for so long they haven't won anything major in a long time.
     
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  18. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    So do you think England aren’t better than the USMNT? Or not top 10?
     
  19. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Without re-reading the thread the point I think I was trying to make is that is that it is much easier for European countries and especially France, Germany, England, Italy and Spain to have players on team in top % leagues and on CL squads. Since there are a lot of measurements using pliers involved in those to rate reams it skews the rating somewhat. I am not saying the US is better than any of those countries.
     
  20. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England has Bellingham who is one of the leading candidates for Ballon D’Or and player of the year in La Liga. They have Harry Kane who is the second best 9 in the world. They have Phil Foden who was player of the year in the EPL. They have Saka who is one of the best wingers in the EPL. They have Declan Rice who is an incredible midfielder. Off the bench they bring players like Cole Palmer who just scored 22 goals in the EPL season.

    They are genuinely one of the most talented teams in the world and their last three tournaments they went to the semis of the World Cup, final of the Euros where they lost on penalties, and a quarterfinal against France that they really should have won (and where Kane inexplicably missed a last minute penalty). Their tournament record has been solid, they just have been able to quite finish the job. This idea that they are overrated because the EPL overvalues English players may have been true once but it’s not really the case in terms of the English national team at this point in time.

    International tournaments are hard to win even if you have alot of talent.

    With that said the Euros this summer and the World Cup in two years is where they need to finish the job at one of the two tournaments. This summer the question marks are at left back where Chilwell missed due to injury and Shaw is coming off a long injury, and at center back in terms of who plays next to Stones. Ironically given the injury issues at left back and the season he had, I think Jedi would have had a legit chance to be on this summer’s England team had he not already been long committed to us.
     
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  21. Bob Morocco

    Bob Morocco Member+

    Aug 11, 2003
    Billings, MT
    My point is, so what? What does that degree of being overrated on Badge FC metrics matter? They are all two tiers ahead of us on any coherent pool rating metric. Germany is “in crisis” in a calendar year where they have 3 “signature wins” because they didn’t finish well in a couple games they outperformed their competition in. They are in a different class than us. These countries are overrated on these metrics but they are overrated relative to Brazil and Argentina and Uruguay, not the USMNT.
     
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  22. dark knight

    dark knight Super Moderator
    Staff Member

    Dec 15, 1999
    Club:
    Leicester City FC
    With that team it’s hard to fathom why they stick with such a boring conservative coach. They were a little lucky to survive today.
     
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  23. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    It’s the results people trumping performance at the board. Semifinals/final/QF trump any other England coaches results and it has them blinkered.
     
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  24. gomichigan24

    gomichigan24 Member+

    Jul 15, 2002
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don’t know if they were lucky but they definitely didn’t play great after the first goal.

    I don’t think Trent Alexander Arnold works at all in the midfield either and he’d be better off if they played him at right back versus a position he doesn’t play at all with his club.

    It’s ironic that Ten Hag of all people made this comment after the game


    You saw it today but you’ve seen it a few times where they go up 1-0 and take the foot off the gas. You saw it in the World Cup semifinal versus Croatia and in the Euro final against Italy.

    The real missed opportunity though I think was the France quarterfinal. They were better than France that day and if they pull that game off they were in a semifinal versus Morocco where they would have been heavily favored. And not that they would have beaten Argentina in the final, but that would have been a game they would have been capable of winning.

    Southgate to England I think is pretty similar dynamic as Berhalter. But he’s also had far better results than anyone in recent memory. The question is how much of that is their talent is better than past coaches had and how much of that is Southgate.
     
  25. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    England may have a problem in that most PL teams are coached by foreigners and they want an Englishman coaching their team. Maybe that's a mistake but which great English coach is out there and wants to coach England? Southgate is boring but they also are steady and don't implode which they have done in the past. I agree that he has the next couple of years to push them over the line or this golden generation won't be talked about kindly. I bet their fans are also wondering what it would take to get Klopp.
     

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