It was a good mix of veterans and rising stars -- a solid team with an elite keeper that added Donovan, Beasley and had a top of his game Clint Mathis.
2018 had that capacity for Bruce…….. Weston , Adams, and pulisic could have been his Donovan Mathis and Beasley. But if you can’t beat Trinidad taken it matters, wellll……. (not all his fault this was 75 percent klinsmann honestly )
Conversation was good, I really like this show from CBS. Bruce isn't exactly the self reflecting type though, guy has always been arrogant. Most eye rolling moment was him acting as The Czech result was largely unavoidable and completely wiping his hands of it. I also understand this is gonna primarily involve USMNT talk but I wish they discussed Beckham a little more. That was one of the most interesting times in MLS history and I'd be interest to get his full perspective on it in a casual format like this Still though interesting guy, with a very complicated legacy as a coach. I would kill for CBS to get Jurgen to do this
He does also say he planned on significantly turning over the team if they qualified (which he’s said before). He also said his plan was to take the US to the 2018 World Cup and then retire from coaching (which I don’t think he’s said before).
They definitely seem to be working through USMNT players and coaches. We’re getting Wynalda for sure and I don’t think it’d be crazy to get Klinsmann on there.
I was watching highlights of the 2002 WC the other night. I think he's right. Some of these guys didn't get the club career that might reaffirm this, because it was different times. ...and, as others have said, some did seem to have their best moment in that WC. Overall, I feel that those guys fought much harder and had more balls than the current group. I wasn't surprised at all when I watched the Arena interview today and he said the same. I think, unfortunately, that our current "golden generation" is talented and certainly a beneficiary of some extra hype an attention, but I have always feared that they will fall short in the mentality department. Pulicic shows it in big games, but not many others. It will be interesting to see whether they develop that over the next two year, as it's the prime years for some of these guys.
The Iran match in 2022 was our only World Cup match this century where we didn't have a club captain in our starting lineup, and that's mostly due to youth. From 2002 through 2014, we had multiple club captains on the field in every World Cup match, and in the 2010 cycle, club captains made up the majority of the starting lineup in most of our competitive matches. (Club captains on our 2022 roster: Zimmerman, Yedlin, Long. Ream and Roldan were vice-captains.)
Czech's were weird, we were unlucky to get them matchday 1. It's relevant to remember they were probably the best team at Euro '04 even though they crahsed out in the semi's, they crashed out in Euro '00 in the group stage but it was due to losses to the semifinalist Dutch, and the eventual winners France, they won their other match and in '96 they made the Euro Finals. I dont really understand why they were so good at the Euro's and so meh in WC Qualifying in '96-'97, and '00-'01 (in '98 qualifying they finished behind Yugoslavia and Spain, in '00-'01 they made the playoff but crashed out to WC knockout squad Belgium (who themselves were ousted by Brazil). I kinda agree w/him, especially considering they were playing a team with Koller healthy (I believe he finished first in scoring in WC Qualifying). I'm torn about it, they botched that game entirely, but that Czech team was also highly likely to destroy us, so part of it is him ust trying to be rationale, and part is him not owning botching things.
fair enough .... watching that full interview he was like always - a little edgy, a little snarky, and trying to be reasonably straightforward .... he is Bruce - from Long Island ... he is what he is. I just thought that sarcastically funny comment to Clint did not land as intended .... and Bruce is not exactly a Nobel prize (physics) nominee .... imagine if one of Kenny's coaches joked that he was not very smart. Bruce might not like that. Best part of that interview I thought was Clint's comment about always bringing your A game ("******** yeah") after Bruce commented on American players needing the attitude in game. Clint is the man.
I know he wants to get back into coaching but while he waits I wouldn’t mind Fox getting him the studio this summer for the Copa America the same way Jesse Marsch was doing for the Nation’s League. On a side note I find it odd Fox has Landon Donovan doing the Euros and not the Copa America.
Bruce Arena had a great coaching career, but he blew it in Couva. It's on the players and it's on him. Nevertheless, the seeds of failure were sown in the failure to develop young talent over the preceding 4 years.
If we had played the games in any order that didn't have us facing the Czech Republic first, I think we would have advanced. They were an aging team, and ran out of gas in their second and third group stage games; I suspect they would have lost their second and third games regardless of their order of opponents.
Though even if we had our round of 16 opponent would have been Brazil and we would have gotten rolled (as Ghana did).
mastroeni played to the very peak of his abilities- senneh played out of his damn mind. he was never close to that level before or after. at a baseline level he was a better player than mastro, but i dont think anyone is overstating how above that individual baseline senneh was in the world cup. a handful of guys topped out their ability there- mastro and llamosa. reyna, friedel and hejduk had their best national team form there. sadly, its the only window o'brien ever squeezed into (you could say the same about mathis in a way). there was also a great togetherness/chemistry in that team, one that actually manifested on the pitch. a whole far greater than the parts. i dont expect anyone to give bruce credit for that, but personally i find that slightly more impressive than everyone being best friends (including the manager). while he was clearly not tied to any one style/way of playing, sometimes basic ass xs and os beat out "brilliant" tacticians. just like not all "great chemistry" is created equally. not that managers have any effect on anything
That generation, minus LD & DMB, also made a Copa SF in 1995. Then you have the Confed Cup run to the final with the win over Spain. Yes, the 2016 team also made the semis, but that was on home soil. For me, the top 5 USNNT accomplishments: 1. 1930 WC SF (Uruguay) 2. 2002 WC QF (Korea/Japan) 3. 2009 Confederations Cup Final 4. 1995 Copa America SF (Uruguay) 5. 2016 Copa America SF (in USA) BTW, that 2016 team has all of 2 guys who will be on the squad this time (Pulisic & Horvath). Maybe Yedlin. Nagbe & Brooks still play but will not be there. My point is, this generation of talent has not really accomplished anything much outside of CONCACAF. Their most notable feat is failing to qualify for the WC. Until they actually do something, the idea they are the best we've ever had is ludicrous.
Outside of 1930, I absolutely think the 2002 team is our best. People around here forget Stewart was the #3 scorer in the Eredivisie one year (Romario and Van Nistleroy ahead of him). Mostly, there are just a lot of Berhalter haters who are so invested in hyping the fantastic level of talent we supposedly have to diminish anything the coach does. If we win, it is because of the players. If we lose, it is the coach.
So I put 1930 in a separate category just because it was a completely different era. I also wouldn’t say this generation of players failed to qualify for the World Cup as the only player from Couva who is still around is Pulisic and he certainly wasn’t the reason we failed to qualify (and he really carried us during that qualifying cycle). This group hasn’t done much outside of CONCACAF partly because they haven’t had the chance to play in tournaments like the Copa America or Confederations Cup yet as previous generations did. And they’ve had a single World Cup where their performance was in line with 2010 and 2014 (though if you look at the underlying numbers in terms of how they played it was more impressive on that front). The legacy of this generation has yet to really be written yet and these guys still have the Copa America, 2026 World Cup, maybe 2028 Copa America, Olympics in LA in 2028 depending on who goes as an overage player, and probably the 2030 World Cup. And it’s not until the 2030 World Cup you’ll really be able to say how this generation did compared to previous ones.
I never really watched Stewart play in Europe, so I never did get a good sense of what his club level was. I know he was very reliable for the US, and those goalscoring stats from the '90-'91 season were pretty impressive. Which makes it all the more surprising to me that he never really played for a club that finished higher than midtable in the Eredivisie while he was there. He was even playing in the Dutch second division just two years before the '02 World Cup (having been relegated with NAC Breda from the Eredivisie at the start of the cycle).
The achievements of the present group in the club game simply dwarf those of the 2002 group. I don't think anyone needs to play the Berhalter-card, here. Getting the shock win over Portugal and the dream matchup against Mexico was great. Great achievement. Does that make those guys better players than the 2009, 2014, or present groups? No.
Accomplishment and talent are different, though I'm a big believer that if the latter never makes it to the former ... you were probably wrong about the latter. That said, this generation didn't miss the World Cup in 2018. There was a 19 year old Pulisic on that team and basically no one else from this generation. So let's not hang this on them. In humanity terms, a generation is 20 years, but in soccer terms, it's basically a four year grouping. I like to use Olympic groupings because it's the point at which most of the players emerge. And the reality is that this generation (really becoming two) has done pretty well for a generation that had no help from the older generations. Imagine if the 2022 team was limited to basically players 24/25 and under, more or less. How do they do? Do we feel better about making the knockouts now? And the Dutch are a tougher matchup than a Mexican team the 2002 team knew very well. I agree they DO have to accomplish it. You need to add effort and execution to the talent. But comparing the Olympic cohort of 2020 and now 2024 (Reyna, Pepi, etc.) to the entire 2002 team is ignoring that they had significant contributors across about 15 years. Also, while nothing else can take away from 2002's accomplishment, it was a also a matter of great timing -- the young generations had enough young stars before the older generation crapped out; a few players played better in that run that they did before or after (like Sanneh); we got lucky (and then unlucky) on a handball; we got to play a Mexico team that we knew we could beat despite finishing second in our group -- this was all when seeding was geographical. At some point, we're going to have a team that makes wins at this level more than just one tournament in their run; that doesn't necessarily need a ton of luck (although pretty much every tourney run needs some luck). A team, where, if had to run it back right away, we'd be confident they could repeat. I'll still take the 2009/2010 team for most talented not in terms of potential but in terms ability at that point in time. Elite goalkeeper like 2022, but stronger across the board and closer to peak Donovan and Dempsey. Where this team looks like it is going to struggle is the defense and keeper.
We now have two threads comparing the 2002 team to what we have now. Neither of which are titled that.