Irvine Welsh column on Fire.

Although I agree with some of what he said, he hasn't quite got it all right. I think his opinion would be a little different if he had seen a game at Soldier Field. And yeah, there is a "soccer mom" atmosphere at many US games, but it exists in spite of many who want otherwise. Welsh knows little of the American game and the struggle it has gone through just to be at the point it is now.

 

Well, I think a lot of that is tongue-in-cheek. Still, the part about the atmosphere-and yes, we all know why-is pretty accurate.

Sat at GS when the rain fell, I moved under the overhang, only to be reminded of the cacophony created by kids screaming and blaring on their horns. I left and moved to the far corner of the stadium for the remainder of the 1st; wandered into the ESC for the 2nd. If you're really into the game/team, unless you sit in the supporters section, the MLS experience can get on your nerves fast. Kids leapfrogging over chairs-the food caravans... Of course MLS is not alone on that score.

Well, at least this expereince will give Welsh a nice juxtaposition, as his next film will be based on this book

 

He needs to spend some time with the ESC in The Swamp. OK, it's not UK -- and never will be. But at least the songs and chants have some spontaneity, including on-the-spot 'lyrics' that, if funny and smart enough, are picked up by the choir.

The 'f' word flies free in 101, and he might have approved the spontaneous, continuous roar of "You fat b*****d" that was hurled at Zack after he slammed Amado into the side netting last Saturday.

The tyranny of the pc crowd, protecting their kids from the words they toss around the playground everyday, can be daunting. Always join the supporters, who have their own section even in a vestpocket venue like Naperville.

Of course you have to come to Metro matches to find relief from the mind-numbing dullness of most MLS chanting. And nothing beats our 3-part anthem, in Spanish (with thanks to Boca Jr.)

New York's chilling!
Jersey's chilling!
What more can I say?
Top Billing!

 

"The signs are ominous as soon as we get into Naperville. It's a college city, serving the Northwestern University."

Is this what's called poetic license?

 

I suppose on some levels Naperville can be seen as Evanston's bitch.

 

However, I do like this,

"If America, with its gun culture, imported our hooliganism, well, you can forget Vietnam. But so much of life has been sanitised and football should still be a place where you can go with your pals, get drunk, be abusive (what else, after all, are refs, other teams' players and rival fans for?) and generally act the clown."


And he has a point here, too, though it rings far more true at A-League games in Pittsburgh than at most of the 40-odd Fire matches I've attended:

"I never thought that I would say this, but over here I prefer the baseball. At the Sox or the Cubs I can get a drink and hang out with my buddies. I can also indulge in some casual, mildly profane observations without some tub of lard in a tracksuit turning round and pursing at me as if I'm a child molester."

 

The entire piece obviously smacks of euro-snobism, but he isn't all that off in some of his points. However, many are based on the fact that the Men in Red are currently residing in Naperville. In my experiences, Soldier Field was much more rowdy (section 8) than anything the same fan groups have managed in Naperville (not completely knocking them, because they are still the best...even in da 'ville). And Naperville's while itself might not look a city, it's population suggests otherwise.

It's also obvious the man has little or no knowledge of soccer here in America, which is fine, but it really makes his ignorance and euro-snob whinings seem that much more evident.

Oh well, in the sceme of things, who really cares. I mean this is from a man who most likely regularly eats meat pies, thinks fish and chips is a delicacy, and occasionally experiements with oral hygiene (ok, they've all been said in numerous UK bashing threads before, and they're over-the-top stereotypical, but they're still fun).

Yea, well you're brain has the shell on it...

 

ummm, it's Irvine Welsh, a novelist known throughout the world. His writing is a bit more than "whining," I would think. And much as I love the Fire, I would guess that the Hearts/Hibs derbies he grew up with were far, far more intense than anything that's going to happen in Naperville.

 

Look, if Stephen King wrote a column bitching about Dragon stadium and got 90% of his facts wrong, I reserve the right to think that his column is also whining and or ************, depending on the circumstances.

Being a novelist does not give you free reign to not include legitimate and accurate facts along with your opinions when you write in a public forum.

 

1) We complain constantly about the lack or the limited atmosphere at MLS games. It's undeniable. Besides moving Northwestern University, what "legitimate and accurate facts" are missing?

2) I think the league and more importantly the Fire can withstand a less-than-flattering, and I would say largely accurate, piece published in the Telegraph. Doesn't hurt my ego. Shouldn't hurt anyone elses.

 

I love Irvine's quote :

"But this is football, something too important to be interfered with by people who don't have it in their soul."

I'm excited for his next novel. And his lil' column here won't take away from that. Sure, he was being a bit snobbish. Sure he got some facts wrong & could've used a fact checker. But the jest of it is that Naperville's not his cup of tea and the same with the atmosphere at the game. I've been there and had fun. But I'd like to see more standing and definitely more cheering, chanting, singing, and swearing in the stands.

I feel like some of the reactions against it have been more like what you'd expect from a friend when they ask you "what do you think of my new shirt" and you're honest and blunt enough to say "it looks pretty crappy."

 

Although clearly nobody over there is going to be pleased by this rather unflattering piece, did he actually say anything which was wrong? If every criticism is valid then all you can really accuse him of is not balancing the piece with the good points of MLS matches.
As a Hibernian fan he is bound to be more used to the blood & thunder (or thud & blunder) of the Scottish League, so if the game isn't being played at a speed that makes you wonder if the players have taken amphetemines prior to kick-off, then the game is going to seem sedate in comparison. There was no reference to the quality of the football, just that it didn't look like the players were trying hard, and that the fans didn't seem to care that they didn't seem to be trying hard.

I just did a quick look on the internet and Naperville has a population of 128,000. In Britain generally an urban area has to have a population of at least 300,000 (or have a cathedral) to be considered a city, which probably explains that comment.

 

Doc Irvine

Yeah, and Boca Juniors/River Plate is more intense still ... a few people maimed every year, and when a kid died recently the other team's fans carried a mock coffin to make fun of the dead guy.

Sound like fun?

In Africa, they do this one better, and trample each other.

So when it comes to cool, Africa beats Argentina beats Scotland beats U.S.

Now I got it.

And all the while, silly ol' me thought that the idea of watching a soccer game was watching a soccer game.

FYI, Joe Queenan recently wrote a U.S. version of Irvine's article (which, as I have written elsewhere, represents a threadbare sentiment). Joe is happy because he's in London wearing a Cubs hat and some Sox fans frost him. This, to him, is what true sports fandom is all about.

Yeah, sure.

 

I went to a Premiership match once, it was OK I guess but there was so much noise going on I couldn't hear any PA announcements, you couldn't enjoy a beer while watching the match, everyone around me was smoking and the stadium was in such a poor location that there was no parking and no where to tailgate.

give me an NFL game any day.

(yes, sarcasm was intended)

 

1. I think that comparing the Chicago Fire, a natural disaster to man made atrocities like Hiroshima or (to a far, far lesser extent, September 11th) is disturbing, if not inaccurate on it's face.

2. Cardinal Stadium in Naperville is not 45 miles away. From the former Meigs to Cardinal stadium is less than 35 miles.

3. The Fire are expected to return to Soldier Field in October, not next season.

4. There is the implication that section 8 is a bunch of "'characters' done up extravagantly in the club colours." who produce "ritual chanting on demand with a complete absense of the f-word." I resent both of those statements as indicating that we're hired by the team and that our actions are not those of support for the team, but instead some sort of sideshow for the "better class" of paying fan. Which apparently, to a lot of people, we are, but which I still resent and will fight to my deathbed.

5. A "distinct lack of liquored- and testosteroned-up groups of working-class males." Well, as much as there are any working-class people left in the US, what do you want in a stadium that doesn't sell beer?

6. "Not a pub in sight" apparently this guy didn't walk around Naperville before or after the game.

7. "college city, serving the Northwestern University" Naperville is one of the oldest settlements in Illinois, and is home to North Central College. It's hardly a college town, unlike DeKalb.

8. "a dull strip-mall hell where everything..." well, I don't particularly like Naperville either, but it's hardly a hell of strip malls. The downtown is actually quite nice, and significantly better than a lot of other cities I could name (Memphis, TN comes to mind).

9. "Naperville's Cardinal Stadium holds about 6-7000" only for the first few games of this year. Generally it holds 4500, for the Fire, when fully expanded, the stadium holds 15k.

But we do sell out, and you do have to buy tickets in advance, which apparently is a bad thing in his book. Maybe he should try New Jersey.

10. "There is a brass band, accompanied by a squad of irritating nerds who persist in a chanting" One trumpet does not a brass band make.

11. "The first cultural impetus in the American domestic league came from football-daft Central and South American immigrants." Ok, I'm not even sure where to start with this one. Most of the cultural impetus for the supporters groups in MLS came from Sams Army, which is why most of them sound vaguely alike.

Obviously our influences in Chicago are somewhat different.

 

I never made it to a Premiership game because I've only been to Europe in the summer.

But I've been to a Barnet-Fulham friendly, a PSG - nobody (some 2nd division team in Loire Valley) friendly, and a Watford-Tottenham friendly.

Great atmosphere. Knowledgeable fans who had an emotional stake in the matter.

None of the drunken hoodlums that Irvine waxes nostalgic about. Shame.

 

@#$% him.

There's some jackass who writes a similarly pedantic and colonialist column for Der Spiegel on how things are over here. If these clowns don't like it here, they can carry themselves and their candy-ass accents back to Europe.

But, unlike the guy from Spiegel, this guy reported that his friend called him out on "That's not how it's done in Europe"-itis.

 

Re: Doc Irvine

Tell me the last time someone was murdered, or even badly injured for that matter, at an English game. How often do you see fighting at EPL matches?

Atmosphere has nothing to do with violence. They are not connected. You can have one without the other. Anyone who thinks that if MLS crowds took the intensity up a few levels then that'd automatically result in people being stabbed to death etc then they really don't have a clue what they are talking about.

 

Re: Re: Doc Irvine

Whoa...someone missed the point.

 

This is the bit that bugs me, because the implication that "liquored- and testosteroned-up groups of working-class males" are somehow the ideal demographic. With those guys mostly attacking referees at Sox games, soccer has to look elsewhere. That's not necessarily a bad thing, even if it sanitizes the experience to some degree.

So you're not refuting the "irritating nerds" part?

Later,
COZ

 

In any case, his novel, Porno, just absolutely sucked.

Thank God he is not working out of Dallas. Although he could give up novels and just concentrate on straight satire.

 

Re: Re: Doc Irvine

Bingo!

Yes, that's what we think here in the States. Maybe if he stays here long enough, Irvine will figure that out, too.

Appreciate your vote of support -- even if you didn't quite think that you were backing my point of view.

 

I thought it was a well written and interesting piece. One is always going to take affront when one's football is put under the microscope and comes up wanting in one respect or other.

 

Well, not to mention his assertion that we're named after a disater also somehow misses the point...maybe you have to be from Chicago, but The Great Fire is hardly viewed as a dark day in the city's history, and was in fact when the metropolis was really born.

Also factor in the name and badge are modeled after those of fire departments, and it's nothing at all like his crude assertion that it would be akin to naming a team the New York Nine Elevens.