Irish weaknesses

Discussion in 'Ireland' started by Paddy_Canuck, Jun 8, 2003.

  1. Paddy_Canuck

    Paddy_Canuck New Member

    Jul 27, 2002
    Canada
    I thought many of the Irish team played very well yesterday But we are very poor in midfield and some other areas.

    keepers:
    Shay is great. It is a pity that Deano retired as he was a great backup. Big drop in standard from Shay to the rest of our keepers.

    Backs:

    We need a partner for Cunningham in central defense. Gary Breen is not playing well at club level ands should not be a regular in the Irish team. As soon as And O Brien is fit he should be a regular.

    Carr is getting better and better and will soon be back to full strength. Everybody raves about John O Shea and he is great going forward - lovely touches for such a big guy. He is also very physical. However he is toooooo inexperienced to play in central defence. We need him on the left wing for the time being.

    Midfield:

    This is where we are in big trouble. Kinsella is past it. He has been a great servant for Ireland but he is no longer good enough. We have nobody to fill his place. Carsley is another good servant but a partnership of Holland/Carsley will not cut the mustard either. Thel likes of Healy or Liam Miller are future prospects. Until they prove themselves at club level they should not be considered.


    Forwards:
    We still need a big man, Yesterday proved that . We were more dangerous when Docherty came on and he is not a forward at club level. We need to start grooming a big forward as target man.


    Given our limited resources I wonder if we shold try playing someone out of position in centrar midfield.

    For example it's a shame to leave Finnan out.

    How about.

    Given
    Carr Cunningham O Brien O Shea
    Reid Finnan Holland Duff
    Keane Morrison/Lee/Sadlier/Docherty


    We have to do something before the big games against Russia & Switzerland.
     
  2. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    For me it has to be...

    Keane Morrison
    Duff Delap Carsley Reid
    Finnan O'Shea Cunningham Carr
    Given

    Gives us the perfect balance. O'Shea has had a year of being an ever present in the champions league and winning a premiership, he could easily step into central defence, his favoured position. Mid field is strong defencively and Delap is good going forward, main creativity will come from the wingers/attacking full backs, and Morrison and Keane is the best partnership we have, they're made for each other. Any inexperience O'Shea has will be more then made up for with Cunninghams expeirence and calmness helping him.
     
  3. celtic_1888

    celtic_1888 New Member

    Jul 28, 2000
    I would agree with Slash in all aspects except playing lee Carsley ahead of Holland. I think Holland is a much more gifted player overall and is far more likely to turn a game than carsley for example his two priceless strikes against portugal in the world cup qualifiers and Cameroon in Japan. Carsley is an extremely average midfielder and i don't feel he warrants a place in the first eleven.

    John o' Shea is by far our best player capable at playing centre back.Despite his lack of experience he is still far more reliable than Cunningham or that total muppet Gary Breen!

    Reid is a great player however he needs to gain experience with a relatively big club. Another player who could play on the right is Mark Kennedy who has had an excellent season with wolves and is a brilliant crosser of the ball.
     
  4. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    Holland has been invisible since the world cup, very poor, at least with Carsley you know what you're going to get, hard worker and good tackler, he wont let the opposition mid field have all the time in the world like Holland does.

    Kennedy I don't rate, has never played well for us and failed in the premiership with three clubs, he's a first division player, like Connolly, will look great there but isn't able to make the step up. At least Connolly works hard though, unlike Kennedy, who's lazy on top of all that.
     
  5. jumhed

    jumhed Member+

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Whiskey and Catholicism. oh, you meant footie? Gary Breen is pretty poor at club level, and Gary Doherty is just poor everywhere. Although he did cross for the winner against Albania. Hmmmmmm.
    Morrison isn't that great, except against the rubbish international teams.
     
  6. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    Rubbish, Morrison is a class act and will be a great partner for Keane for years to come, by the end of their international careers Morrison will have the better goals ratio too.
     
  7. jumhed

    jumhed Member+

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Only because Keano can pass.
     
  8. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    Well, exactly....

    I didn't mean that to slag off Keane, it's just the type of player he is, he drops deep and creates stuff and Morrisons that strong presence in the box who can finish the chances he creates, Morrisons a great finisher and him and Keane will be great together, he's not just good against the rubbish international teams.
     
  9. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Here is what I would do...And I know nobody will agree with me but I would put John O'Shea in the middle of midfield. He is a class player and I think he would do well there. After all, who would have put Paul McGrath in midfield, everyone at the time said Chalton was bonkers but look at how well he did.
     
  10. billyireland

    billyireland Member+

    May 4, 2003
    Sydney, Australia
    I think Robbies finishing is being underrated here... in about 5 1/2 years, and at only age 23, Robbie is on 15/16 goals for Ireland, he's certainly gonna shatter Quinnys and can possibly reach the 30's.
     
  11. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    15 at the age of 22 is good, but Keanes such an all round player it's unfair to ask him to be a goal scorer as he has so much more to offer. Why bother playing Duff in the hole when Keanes natural game is all about coming deep, leave Morrison in the box to poach the goals that he and Duff, in his best position, make and creativity wont be a problem. Having someone like Reid on the right wont harm us either, and the emerging Thornton has a touch of class about him and is a great passer, the future is definitely bright.
     
  12. Paddy_Canuck

    Paddy_Canuck New Member

    Jul 27, 2002
    Canada
    Rory Delap

    Delap deserves hir chance certainly. He had a fine season. But when he did play for Ireland last - a couple of years ago - he did not play well. So there is no certaintly that he is the answer to our midfield problem.

    It's an interesting though to try O Shea in midfield though.

    As for our attack. Morrison is not big enough for a target man so when we need to go route one -as we most certainly will at times in the future - we will need someone else such as Lee or Sadlier .

    I'm not saying Morrison/Keane will not be the starting choice but we will need an alternative.

    I can not understand why there is no support for Andy O Brien in the starting line up. He has Champions League experience now too.
     
  13. Jonah

    Jonah New Member

    "Given our limited resources I wonder if we shold try playing someone out of position in centrar midfield.

    For example it's a shame to leave Finnan out."

    Concidering our obvious central midfield weaknesses and using a little foresight I remember
    being kicked around this board by Slash and co for making this exact suggestion.

    I still feel Finnan or O'Shea could do a good job for us in this position. We all know that O'Shea
    has played and performed well for Utd in the central of midfield. As for Finnan I remember reading
    an interview with him prior to the world cup were he says he used to play in central midfield for a previous club.

    Of course, I don't know how good he was.


    Jonah
     
  14. SebastianK

    SebastianK Member

    Crystal Palace
    Apr 12, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    I agree mates.


    Sure we have our weaknesses. Dean was a great backup and Given is a beautiful keeper, but I agree, midfield is our weakest point.

    Like Keano or not, he was a great player and an equally as good captain. Mark my words, if we hadn't have lost him no thanks to that piece of shite McCarthy, we'd have beaten both Germany and Spain (Allthough we probably would have lost to Korea, because they obviously paid off the refs, how anyone can dispute that is beyond me).

    But in the mean time, I almost turned pro a few years ago had it not been for politics of the then San Diego Flash. If I can get my career going again, I'll gladly fill the role of Ireland's much needed Midfielder. :).

    Sebastian
     
  15. WishyWashy

    WishyWashy New Member

    Aug 8, 2002
    I don't know how many of you were actually at/watched the match, but some of those team selections don't seem to recognise some facts.
    Firstly Gary Breen, despite everything that's been said about his club form (correctly), you have to give him credit for his performances in the green shirt. His partnership with Cunningham has consistantly proved effective for us, and until a time comes when he produces his club form for us you can't just fong him out. I thought both had good games on Saturday. Paradoxially John O'Shea's form for Ireland is nothing like his Man Utd form. He was responsible for the Albanian goal - causing Cunningham to move out of position to try and cover after his mistake - while his delivery was appaling for most of the match. He continually put Kilbane under pressure with his passes, which of course allowed the óle óle brigade to get on Kilbane's back again, despite a reasonable performance in a system that nobody seemed comfortable with. He also has a tendancy to drift into the centre a lot, giving a lot of space to any attacks down that flank. Without Kilbane in his usual left wing role it was an area of much concern. O'Shea is a quality player, has proven it time and again at world class level this season with United, but he has yet to give that kind of performance for us. When he does, I think it'll be in the centre!
    That brings me to Slash & co and the idea of playing Finnan left back. I really hope it'll work as it would solve a big problem for us, but getting a few minutes in a friendly game is hardly sufficient preparation to justify throwing him in for a vital qualifier. I was happy to see Kerr experiment with it, but thought he should have played him from the start. You can't just assume that because he is a fullback and a quality player that he can just slot in there like Dinny Irwin could. He was the exception rather that the rule. I hope Finnan can do it though. Similarly with the midfield selection of Delap & Carsley. Who knows how that would work out. Delap hasn't done it yet for Ireland, while we all agreed that Carsley is a squad player really. The future may well be Delap & possibly Healy, but now is not the time to try out new partnerships or players in unfamilar positions.
     
  16. Paddy_Canuck

    Paddy_Canuck New Member

    Jul 27, 2002
    Canada
    ____________________________________
    Posted by Wishywashy
    The future may well be Delap & possibly Healy, but now is not the time to try out new partnerships or players in unfamilar positions.
    _________________________________________

    I do not entirely agree Wishy. Our cental midfield partnership Holland/Kinsella was very poor on Saturday. We are going to need big improvement to beat Georgia - especially as it looks likely we will not have Duff.

    Georgia have a new coach and only four or five players have survived since our game over there. They are a better team than many here give them credit for and should not be under estimated.

    A combination of losing Duff and playing like we did on Saturday will be disasterous.
     
  17. Plastic Paddy

    Plastic Paddy New Member

    Aug 5, 2002
    Hammersmith, London
    I agree. I think what we have also missed - and something that hasn't really been picked up on so far - is forceful leadership. Much as I detest the man, that's one thing Roy Keane gave to the team, and one thing that seemed to be in abeyance on Saturday. I respect the way Kenny Cunningham goes about his duties, but he's not a bawler, and I feel that's something we're missing.

    Unfortunately, I'm not sure that this is something we can address in the short term either. I can't think of anyone - apart from Gary Breen, and he's his own issues to face just now - who will fill that role.

    I just hope, as we all do no doubt (with the possible exception of "ika man"), that we've enough spirit and energy to take us through the Georgia match and on to face Russia in September.
     
  18. e_k1

    e_k1 New Member

    Aug 12, 2002
    Germany
    O'Shea hasn't played as well for Ireland as Man Utd, was poor defensively on Saturday but is obviously an excellent player with loads of potential. I actually thought Kilbane played quite well in parts on Sat., but would still rather see Duff play on the left.

    Holland - I agree with whoever said Carsley should start ahead of him. Limited as he is Lee will give 100%, get at the opposition at look for the ball, unlike Holland who seems to just disappear at times in games.

    Connolly - Doherty should start ahead of him, Connolly is just not good enough, Carsley is far more worthy of a place than him. We have to start with Doherty, at least he is good in the air, awkward and will give the Georgian defence something to worry about.

    My 11 for Wednesday:

    Given
    Carr
    Breen
    Cunningham
    O'Shea
    Reid
    Kilbane
    Carsley
    Duff
    Keane
    Doherty
     
  19. closey

    closey New Member

    Jul 26, 2002
    UK
    I have spoken to a couple of people who went to the match on Saturday and they picked up on something us at home might not have seen on the TV......

    Basically Kilbane was not offering any decent options for O'Shea on the wing and also because Kilbane spent most of his time in our half, O'shea then had no space to run into with the ball....Kilbane naturally was dragged to the wing a lot and this stifled O'Shea's opportunity to do what Carr did on the other side........

    I would nearly consider swapping them both around position wise if Kerr still feels that Kilbane has to be in the team!!!.

    Im off to the match tomorrow...yee ha

    closey
     
  20. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    O'Shea and Carr both played poor on saturday, I'd put that mainly down to the formation, they didn't know if they were coming or going half the time. They were playing as wing backs, if you're going to play wing backs you need three central defenders or, basically, the Albanian goal will become a regular one, there's not enough cover. 4-3-3 failed and has to be dropped for the Georgia match, weather Duff makes ir or not.
     
  21. jumhed

    jumhed Member+

    Mar 26, 2001
    London
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    What about Harte and Kelly?

    On paper, Ireland have a great team and a good squad, so why are they squeaking past outfits like Albania when they should be burying them? Also, have you heard that UEFa are looking into a rule-change on giving the ball back to the opposition after they've kicked it out to treat an injury? Sounds ridiculous.
     
  22. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    Our manager got his tactics wrong trying a 4-3-3 which flopped, that's why we preformed so badly, also Albania have improved alot over the years, they're fairly decent now, not world class by any means but fairly decent.
     
  23. Leto

    Leto New Member

    Aug 23, 2001
    Donegal,Ireland
    It's a bit much to ask the players to have a new formation down perfectly after one friendly - I think that the 4-3-1-2 could be a very potent weapon if used properly. We need the right midfield balance for it to work though - the goal we conceded came about because of the lack of midfield cover and tracking back, and a fair proportion of Carr and O'Shea's problems can be attributed, in part at least, to the fact that there was absolutely no relationship between what they were doing and what Holland and Kilbane were doing (or not doing, as the case may be).

    I'm not sure if it's the way to go in the next game given the teething problems and the possible absence of Duff. Having said that, what we'd be looking for in a 4-4-2 is width, and, apart from Duff and Reid, our current squad is fairly thin on wingers (and that's even including Reid as a winger, which isn't his best position IMO). Kilbane is solid, but his dribbling and crossing veers from the excellent to the terrible - although he does add an aerial threat. Lee Carsley is the only other immediate option for the right, and I don't think anyone would describe him as a flying winger.

    The likes of Thomas Butler, Gary Kelly, Steve Finnan and Richie Partridge could help solve this problem when fit, but for my money the real key to the puzzle is Seán Thornton. Hopefully this time next year he'll have enough experience to warrant a place in the squad.
     
  24. Slash/ED

    Slash/ED New Member

    Apr 19, 2002
    Dublin
    Thorntons played mainly centrally, surley Reids a better option on the right wing where he plays most of his football!?
     
  25. Leto

    Leto New Member

    Aug 23, 2001
    Donegal,Ireland
    Sorry, I meant that Thornton (playing centrally, of course :)) would provide us with the creativity and link up play which we're currently missing, and would hopefully enable both systems to work at full potential. I agree that Reid is the best (almost the only) option on the right if we revert back to 4-4-2 against Georgia, but I'd almost put him in instead of Holland in the 3 man midfield if he's fully fit. I see him of greater value to us (and possibly his club side) in the centre.
     

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