Re: Germany stabs Europe in the heart That's far away from even "almost". I have no doubt that Lisbon will be ratified by the parliament soon! Btw: http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,4444969,00.html @ Gladio Agent You can change your nick every week ... but your postings still are a joke.
...still wouldn't be shocked to see ther are neough idiots around to vote no because: 1. It is a way of "sticking it to the greedy politicians" or better yet... 2. We'll be forced into a giant Euorpean super-army, lose all social welfare, public schoolings and public hospitals if we vote yes. Seriously would not be suprised to see a strong, strong number of people vote no on the 2nd 'point' even though the party that were pushing those lies (Libertas) have - still - failed to show where any of their funding is coming from. Which iirc, is illegal?
Btw, Iceland officially applied for EU membership this week, a referendum is expected in 2 two years, they could become a member by 2013.
I got a weird paper thru the door today, haven't read it yet but it looks as if it has come from the UKIP.
The 'yes' and 'no' banners are beginning to pop back up out in the streets the last week or two over here. Any signs of them up there yet? Ugh...
Was it called the Sovereign Independent? Saw one sitting on the bus today as I was getting off and grabbed it out of interest (want to keep updated on the propagated lies of the 'no' campaign). I'll post one or two of the articles in it up here when I get the chance. As an aside, I was in the city centre today again - the 'yes' campaign sees to be far, far more prominent this time around and almost using some of the 'no' campaigns dirty tactics back against them (e.g. blaming the 'no' vote for the fact that we are the fifth-worst hit economy in the whole world the last year... claiming a no vote again would destroy the economy and job production further... etc, etc). Can't say I am a fan of that stuff, but it could hopefully at least work and it will be interesting to see if Ganley bothers to pop his mug up this time around, or if he will even be given the shady funds to after Libertas got hammered so badly in the elections.
http://www.sovereignindependent.com/ Terrific read. I almost expected Harry Potter to make an appearance. Well, not that I've ever actually READ any Harry Potter books but y'know what I mean
So you'll vote one way or the other for the sake of democracy? How does that work then??? Surely democracy is people voting how they want REGARDLESS of other considerations. TBH I can't help thinking most of the concerns about these votes revolve around the idea that it's possible, in a democracy, for democratic power to be removed from the people by democratic means. I don't think that's true. If you say yes to this vote you can always change your mind later on REGARDLESS of what anyone else says. If necessary you can leave the EU COMPLETELY if you want and there's nothing anyone else can do about it. We had all this crap over here during the referendum back in the mid 70's... allegations that we were making a once in a millennia choice and were stuck with it from then on. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.
Well, except we couldn't leave the EU now even if we wanted to. I mean, technically we can, of course we can. But practically? No. The people in the 70's were right - you can only sell the family silver once. I think he means that a 'No' vote is a vote in defence of democratic principle in a way that a 'Yes' vote cannot claim to be. Not sure I agree, mind. The vote itself is value-neutral when it comes to democracy. It's the outcome of the vote and, to a greater and more immediate extent, the fact that this vote is having to be cast in the first place that has bearings on the state of democracy in Europe.
Of course it is true and which is why I said I'd vote no. The vote was No last year so not liking that result they run the vote again?? On the same issue the excuse being they were too lazy last time to campaign for a Yes!
Again, this is all part of the same lies we were told back the 70's, (that we would face immediate financial annihilation if we left), and it's all based on the premise that we gain from the EU and that they don't. The thing is that our importing huge amounts of goods from the EU benefits THEM just as much as our experting goods to them benefits US. I'm not saying that we should leave the EU but, if push came to shove, we COULD leave if we wanted to. However, the reality is that we don't have to leave. We can obtain our demands, (assuming they're justified and are seen to be), by diplomatic means. All this 'THE HEAVENS WILL FALL IF.... blah, blah, woffle, woffle', is the same old horseshit we've had for years.
It seems that the "NO" campaign 'propaganda' in Ireland is on the raise again (well, no wonder when seeing the latest polls 1 week ahead of the referendum)... CLICK
I don't know about financial annihilation, but it's more trouble than it's worth. Think for example of EU workers currently in Britain. If you pull out of the EU, you have to kick them all out (bad idea), or give residence permits pretty indiscriminately (maybe through a now bilateral treaty with the EU, in which case it's worth asking why the UK left the EU in the first place, at least in this instance), or spend millions upon millions of pounds going through the regular immigration steps for each of them so you can keep the "good" ones - if they want to stay. This is just one example. I'm sure people can think of many others that would make even the greatest eurosceptic do a double take. It's certainly a hard case to make.
Well, that's exactly my point. We probably wouldn't have to do anything of the sort because the EU gains as much from our membership as we do. Of course, that situation wouldn't continue indefinitely and we'd lose what influence we DO have to alter EU laws and policies. As I say, I'm not suggesting we leave the EU... I think it's a stupid idea. I'm simply pointing out that this decision being some kind of 'final solution' for British, (or Irish), democracy and freedom is complete bollocks.
It's looking positive so far, full results should be in in about 3hrs apparently. Slightly relieved with that, myself...
Tbh, you have to lose a lot of respect for the Irish people after that, rolling over in such a pathetic manner.