Re: 58 more dead in Iraq. You've got that right! U.S. troop deaths still very low, looking like March again. http://www.icasualties.org/oif/ On the other hand... http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/new...07-17T102224Z_01_MOL664910_RTRUKOC_0_IRAQ.xml The death toll from the tanker blast has risen to 98 according to Reuters http://today.reuters.com/news/newsA...1910Z_01_N17515123_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-IRAQ-DC.XML
Study cites seeds of terror in Iraq War radicalized most, probes find WASHINGTON-- Uh-oh. We've done this thing to the world. Us.
From the must-read article Mel cited: A couple of questions: If the US and the coalition of the willing were to leave Iraq, would the foriegn nutheads stop coming to Iraq to 'drive out the infidels'? (I think the answer is yes - but the US would have really leave, including turning over militart bases.) Could the Iraq government then successfully battle the remnants of Saddam's cronies? (??) Is Iraq a viable nation-state? (I still don't think so, and I think this is the most important question to sort out.)
I had already come to reject the theory that terrorists were being drawn to the great Iraqi flytrap before reading the article. It just doesn't make sense for AQ or any other major terrorist organization to focus on the Iraq front. Is there an AQ presence there? obviously. But AQ success throughout the world since our invasion of Iraq began should tell us that we are not fighting the war on terror in Iraq, not in the slightest. We CERTAINLY are not defeating the ideology through our actions in Iraq, if anything we are bolstering it. What now? What the hell do we do now? I do not believe that leaving Iraq now is the best course of action, but I do believe that we cannot continue to go it relatively alone. "Defeating" this ideology is truly a long term deal. We need to stop focusing on it as some conflict that we can one day end through military intervention or more invasion/nation building. Instead we need to kick into high gear our research into alternative energy, end our reliance on middle eastern oil thereby ending the need to have any kind of presence in the middle east at all. This would possibly bring about the end of the rule of the few in those countries FAR more quickly and efficently than the method we are currently employing. Without the oil revenues the power structure in the middle east topples. End.Of.Problem.
I don't know. I've been thinking that AQ and the rest of the crazies desparately want to kick our asses on their home turf. So they can claim they drove out the infidels. The condundrum. Unofortunately, the fools who got us in the mess don't have a clue how to draw things to a workable conclusion - other than more of the same. I only hope the neocons are listening. Tinkering at the margins of the Bush Doctrine will not work - We need a complete paradigm shift. I was with you 110% until we learned the London bombers were home-grown Brits. Maybe its the combination of not relying on the middle east for our energy AND getting our troops out of that part of the world, too.
Maybe so. I don't think the AQ higher ups are ordering their troops into Iraq in large quantities, however. They DO seem to have their fingers in matters, no doubt. But I don't take the AQ leadership for dumbasses and only dumbasses would prioratize the fight in Iraq over the more effective method of spreading terror globally in order to accomplish the same end, to drive us out of the middle east. Seems that way. It seems they want us to be patient, this will all work itself out in the end. Maybe that is true, but it does not change the fact that we had no business opening up this can of worms in the first place, at least not in the way we have done it. And the events thus far are exactly why that is so. Yep. But their actions, homegrown or not, are directly related to the middle eastern conflict as a whole. Ending our reliance on oil should mean the end of our military presence there as well.
Re: 58 more dead in Iraq. OK, if that's what you really believe,* ask yourself why they're so afraid of working against the insurgents. *Yeah, fear is *A* factor, but do you really believe it's the only factor??? Alot of Iraqis see the coalition as the enemy. That's a pretty big factor too.
Look, sometime in the last, say, two months, this became a civil war. Let's admit we failed and leave, Halliburton be damned.
I totally agree with you on this and have a couple of questions...... 1) if the radical muslims drawn to Iraq to become suicide bombers are mad at the USA and Britain....why then are they blowing up other muslims ? 2) it would seem that if the goal of these insurgents is to get the USA and Britain to leave then the way to do that would be to STOP the suicide bombings, let calm take over...the USA and Britain would leave...and then try and step in with a 14th century taliban type system
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050718/wl_nm/iraq_militia_dc You know things aren't going very well when you see people start to take the law into their own hands because those who are supposed to be handling it are too busy getting killed.
You're apparently unaware that the US is building permanent bases, and has been, to say the least, coy about its intentions.
love your new avatar....and by the way you are needed in the "new nickname for the tri colors" thread...someone ( other than me ownself) spouting off about size making a difference in the WC....
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/19/AR2005071900570.html This would definitely suck. We have GOT to 1. Start thinking seriously about how to get the hell out. 2. STOP building permanent bases. 3. Do both publicly so that Iraqis know it.
Not to mention possibly saving the planet Earth from environmental desctruction. I'm not the biggest Jimmy Carter fan, but he tried to get us thinking seriously about energy. With Reagan's victory and the decline in energy prices, we totally abandoned this.
Dave I'll get right on that. If only I'd read internet message boards about soccer sooner ! GEN. John Abizaid
In my opinion, this is the fundamental problem. I don't believe there is ANYTHING we can do to make Iraq a long-term peaceful and democratic country. While toppling the regime was somewhat justified, the occupation is doomed to failure. Unfortunately, it may take another few thousand American soldiers and 1/2 a trillion dollars to reach a consensus to pull out.
The genius who basically threatned Iran with, "If you ever even contemplate our nuclear capability, it should give everybody the clear understanding that there is no power that can match the United States militarily." I'm pretty sure that translates in Farsi to "we better build lots and lots of nukes right away."
Iraq Insurgency - no end in sight thread revisited A suicide bomber wearing a vest packed with explosives detonated himself Wednesday outside an Iraqi army recruitment center in Baghdad, killing at least eight people and wounding 28 others. In an attempt to crack down on insurgent violence, Iraqi police said they conducted a raid Wednesday in Babil province in the same area where a suicide blast killed more than 90 people last week. (Full story) The Iraqi government on Wednesday observed three minutes of silence to mourn last week's suicide bombing in Musayyib and one in Baghdad that killed nearly 30 people, most of whom were children. Four Sunni Arabs have suspended their membership on a committee writing Iraq's new constitution, a spokesman for a Sunni political group said Wednesday. Dr. Salih al-Mutlaq said the Iraqi National Dialogue Council members made the move because of Tuesday's shooting deaths of three, including a Sunni Arab committee member and a committee adviser, in Baghdad. "Four members of the Iraqi National Dialogue Council suspended their meeting with the national committee until we meet with other Iraq national forces to take a unified position against what happened yesterday," al-Mutlaq said. He said his group is calling on the U.N. Security Council "to find out the truth of what happened yesterday because we do not trust this government." Several members of the tribunal handling war crimes proceedings against Saddam and his aides have been dismissed for ties to the former ruling Baath Party, said a spokesman for Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Ahmed Chalabi. Chalabi spokesman Entifadh Qanbar didn't provide specifics about the dismissals but said that that other staff members face investigation for similar reasons. Chalabi, the controversial one-time Pentagon favorite, heads the Supreme National Commission for de-Baathification. In a drive-by shooting, gunmen killed the imam of a mosque in southern Baghdad's Dora neighborhood. Sheikh Ahmed Ali Abdulla was gunned down outside al-Taqwa mosque following prayers. Insurgent gunmen northeast of Baghdad in Diyala province killed 10 people Tuesday when they opened fire on a minibus, police said. The bus swerved out of control and crashed into a car, killing three others in the second vehicle. Civilian workers from a U.S. military base in Khalis were on the bus. The driver also was wounded. Nearly 25,000 civilians have been killed in the first two years of the Iraq war, according to a group tracking the civilian death toll from the conflict. The Iraq Body Count, a London-based group of academics and human rights and anti-war activists, said Tuesday that 24,865 civilians died between March 20, 2003, and March 19, 2005. (Full story)
Re: Iraq Insurgency - no end in sight thread revisited Do I care how many Iraqi's are killed by foreign insurgents? Not really. In two years most US forces will be out of Iraq and their civil war can commense.
Re: Iraq Insurgency - no end in sight thread revisited P.S. Iraq seems already to be well on its way to full on civil war. Tell me again, why did we bother in the first place?
Re: Iraq Insurgency - no end in sight thread revisited Like you guys keep saying it must have been for their oil right?