Iranian President a hostage taker?

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Yankee_Blue, Jun 29, 2005.

  1. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    I hope the kiwis aren't wasting any scholarship money on your education.
     
  2. Kamran

    Kamran Member

    Nov 19, 2004
    Melbourne - AUS
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    unfortunately they have spent all their money on the "NO WAR FOR OIL" campaign :) ....
     
  3. Chicago1871

    Chicago1871 Member

    Apr 21, 2001
    Chicago
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You New Zealand-Iranians do love your elipses.
     
  4. Kamran

    Kamran Member

    Nov 19, 2004
    Melbourne - AUS
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    you noticed the ellipses, I'm impressed ;)
     
  5. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    That's why you are living in US, not Iran. You probably are not very useful to the cause of Iranians.
     
  6. MattR

    MattR Member+

    Jun 14, 2003
    Reston
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh, my silly American friend, so uninterested in the customs and cultures of other people.

    You think that Muslims don't travel? Everywhere you go, 5 times a day, you need to know where Mecca is.

    [​IMG]

    There is a compass in the middle of the prayer mat. There is a booklet that comes with the mat that lists the cities of the world, so you know which direction to point your prayer mat at...

    http://moonsighting.com/compass.html

    For one of the greatest controversies in Islamic history, please refer to the http://moonsighting.com/qibla.html#USA, a discussion of the NE or SE orientation from North America. Those infadels face to the NE from North America! Death to them!
     
  7. JPhurst

    JPhurst New Member

    Jul 30, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    After this, I wonder if we should start preparing for a "Lyndie England for President" campaign.
     
  8. verybdog

    verybdog New Member

    Jun 29, 2001
    Houyhnhnms
    Well you will never know, for a country that would elected GWB as president. Cross your finger!
     
  9. Kamran

    Kamran Member

    Nov 19, 2004
    Melbourne - AUS
    Club:
    Perspolis
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    well if only you could find her look alike that looks nothing like her ;)
     
  10. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    The fact that IM just produced scores of other Iranian government officials, including a VP, who did take American hostages, renders the question about the identity of the president somewhat moot. The Iranian regime doesn't see a problem with terrorists among itself (why would it?), that's been a given all along.
     
  11. Txtriathlete

    Txtriathlete Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    The American Empire
    Interesting. Source?



    Why pay compensation if it was justified?
     
  12. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know if you caught my other post where I said truth is the first casuality of war.
     
  13. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember when a story circulated that it was a setup, more a conspiracy theory then truth.
     
  14. Txtriathlete

    Txtriathlete Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    The American Empire
    I actually missed that, along with the part where we were at war.
     
  15. Txtriathlete

    Txtriathlete Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    The American Empire
    Ah! too many of those for me to even bother, but thanks for clearing that up :)
     
  16. Scarecrow

    Scarecrow Red Card

    Feb 13, 2004
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If you ask some here they will tell you we are. My point in those posts were to show that anyone can just spout rhetoric and other BS, that is why I followed up my posts with some links that portrayed the actual events in an effort to show I knew what the truth of the situation was. That is why I put the compensation part on there, someone had posted that the US had done nothing to accept responsibility for the incident.
     
  17. Txtriathlete

    Txtriathlete Member

    Aug 6, 2004
    The American Empire
    Understood.
     
  18. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    Not long after Fukuyama proclaimed the End of History, and the victory of what some called neo-liberal ideology, I believe an answer has been found to it that has a chance to take the imagination of intellectuals in the Middle East. And to respond to the masses there as well.

    The answer uses labels that are familiar to the masses, and which evoke carricatures from its detractors, but ultimately that answer is the most enlightened I have heard coming from the region. That answer has nothing to do with religious reactionaries, or Taleban's vision of society or goverrnment.

    Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran's "little serveant and street sweeper", and now its president-elect, is above all an intellectual. He was the best high school student in all of working class East Tehran and finished around 167th among tens of thousands who competed in the national university placement exam in Iran. This was all before the revolution. He attended Iran's most elite university, what is often regarded as Iran's MIT, and obtained a degree in engineering from that school.

    To be sure, I know a lot of bright engineers who nonetheless do not have a clue about politics, economics, or history. Perhaps Ahmadinejad was one of them in 1979, but he is today not one of them at all. He is fluent in all the relevant subjects and understands the important issues of management, government, politics, economics, culture, and history that Iran faces.

    As a young man, he volunteered to serve his country in war, including in dangerous assignments behind enemy lines. He was rewarded for his service by being appointed a young governor of a new province in Iran, Ardebil. But instead of seeing the position as his just reward, he wanted to serve still. For 3 consecutive years, he was picked as the "model governor" of Iran. In his tenure, he turned his back on all the perks of office and instead focused on working for the people.

    Later, he reentered school and finished his doctorate in urban engineering and planning. If he did not know economics before then, he must have learned it from experience as governor and studying for his PhD. I say this because while he had all the passions of a socialist, his answers are not the same as the old ones from the failed communist and socialist experiments. Many of his answers are quite consisent with neo-liberal thought, but his passion and focus is to make sure those neglected from that world can get its benefits too.

    When the conservatives took over the city council in Tehran, he was picked as Tehran's mayor. His first decision was to refuse the mayor's mansion and to continue living in his modest home. To drive himself to work, while having his house open to the same neighbors and friends he had from before. As a conservative, he was carricatured and attacked viciously by Iran's reformist press. In the process, he became also a political opponent of another Iranian politician who admire greatly, President Khatami. That was enough for me to never want to listen to this guy, and to believe the worst about him. Khatami is, and continues to be, the political figure I admire the most in Iran. I don't care for the radical reformists who are too young to know how much they don't know, nor for the religious zealots that do exist in our society as well. What Iran needs are centrist figures, not centrist by an American calculus but by an Iranian one.

    Since I have now had the opportunity to listen to Ahmadinejad, and hear his views, I now know that he too is a centrist. Indeed, his entire ideology is about inclusion and finding ways to bridge the many differences in Iran. On the only issues that the carricature of him bear any resemblance to the truth is his ideological hostility to what he regards as the hegemonic powers and forces in this world, namely the US - with Israel its symbol in the Middle East and Britain its poodle. Even then, he has been busy with other things to have left a real trail that can be used against him.

    Beware of anything else you hear trying to depic him as a zealot or religious extremist. Or someone who has been involved in any murder, mayham, or terrorism. They are likely to be lies.
     
  19. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    I guess it's all ok then.
     
  20. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Sounds like he and Karl Kelller might have a swell time polishing each other's kebobs.
     
  21. DynamoKiev_USA

    DynamoKiev_USA New Member

    Jul 6, 2003
    Silver Spring, MD
    We haven't had any photos recently of regular Iranians breathing and eating food in a show of normalcy. Can we have some, please, IM? More photos of crazy ninja women with machine guns would do nicely as well :)
     
  22. 352klr

    352klr Member+

    Jan 29, 2001
    The Burgh of Edin

    Congratulations on your best cut and paste job yet.


    And when he says things such as the following we should ignore it as a Likudnik, Zionist, Neo-Conservative, Christian, Crusader plot that tries to depict him as a zealot or religious extremist?
    “Thanks to the blood of the martyrs, a new Islamic revolution has arisen and the Islamic revolution of 1384 [the current Iranian year] will, if God wills, cut off the roots of injustice in the world,” he said. “The wave of the Islamic revolution will soon reach the entire world."
     
  23. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    My question....and I apologize if this has already been answered....if he was one of the hostage takers.....why would several of the avowed hostage takers...those who admit to being part of the takeover and who are involved in politics still today....adamantly stated that he was not among them?
     
  24. Iranian Monitor

    Iranian Monitor Member+

    Aug 18, 2004
    Nat'l Team:
    Iran
    No post of mine is cut and paste, unless it comes in quotes.

    BTW, I thought "everyone knew" that Rafsanjani was going to be the next president, bla bla bla?

    As for that quote, you have to have a clue both of his ideology as well as the context to it, before you can understand what he is saying.

    Context: The speech was given to families of people killed by the terrorist group MKO. In that environment, the language is different than when he speaks to the nation as a whole.

    Ideology: The "Islamic Revolution" he speaks about has nothing to do with the image that you have in mind. His own vision of government is modernist, and while it takes Islamist labels, in reality is represents a far more reformist vision than even what Khatami offered.

    I can't write a whole treatise here about that ideology, but perhaps the following might make you realize his prejudices. Though long, I have just touched the surface on his ideology.

    1) Cultural Issues.

    He believes the "cultural war" that has some Iranians mimick and copy their clothes, tastes and ideas from the West cannot be won by force. Rather the answer is to allow them to be free, but offer them a superior vision and a more appealing alternative. He likes to give encouragement to fashion designers, and cultural figures, who look into Iran rich history and custumes (iincluding colorful ones among varous Iranian tribes) to produce a fashion that is as enticing as anything that comes from Paris or New York. Recognizing that ultimately the elite will try to always "look" like the more "hip Ali", he wants the most hip of all to become those who adopt a new fashion altogether. Whether he succeeds or fails, his vision and answer aren't about forcing the "chador" on everyone!

    2) Economics.

    He knows the virtues of competition and the failings of government. His platform is to privatize as much of Iranian industry as possible. He does have a Buchanan like protectionist streak, but ultimately he believes that if you close the doors of competition, you end up with inferior products. He wants to help indigineous industries and production, but only up to the point where they should be ready to freely compete. And always encouraging competition internally among them.

    He also wants more of Iran's wealth to go to the majority who are either barely making ends meet, or are poor. But his own vision is not to promote more subsidies, but basically to distribute the shares of privatized companies to the public. Not sell it to the highest bidder for government to take the money, but to give those shares to the people who own it. Let them then sell their shares to whoever they want. This has to be done in stages, but along with interest free loans to the poor and to business that want to operate in poorer areas, his vision is socialist in inspiration but uses free market tools for those ends.

    3) Political System

    His ideal of a political system is one that allows free debate and competition. But within the controus of the law and an Islamic system. The Islamic part for him is a means to make sure that the choices for the people aren't elevated and defined merely by how much money they can raise. That those choices are elevated by issues such as character, piety, honesty, courage, willingness to sacrifice, by a commitment to the ideas of the revolution (Independence, Freedom, Isalmic Republic).

    In his conception, no person has any "final right answers" and a system that does not allow "reform" and "change" and "competition" is a system that falters and dies. The important thing is to devise the system so that while competition is preserved, certain values as opposed to others are given preference.

    4) International Relations

    He does see a bigger role for Iran in the region than the US would want to tolerate. In this area, his vision is nationalistic and ideological. Promoting the ideology that he feels is the right one for Iran, elsewhere, recognizing that the best promotion comes from Iran itself being a society others will want to copy and emulate.
     
  25. JPhurst

    JPhurst New Member

    Jul 30, 2001
    Jersey City, NJ
    Fixed.
     

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