Iran: the collapse

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Quakes05, Aug 2, 2025.

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  1. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A moot point: in some ways, yes; in some ways, no. From my position, as one who objects to war in just about any context, yes, it is a moot point. And it is also moot to suggest that the legality matters to this administration. But I don't think we should dismiss that aspect as the question of legality matters in terms of justifying what actions may or many not be taken, past of future. I also think it matters in terms of how members of Congress speak about this war, and how we interpret their position. And I think even as liberal as we may be, those who are from Europe who are posting here have a different view on the question of legal v. illegal and what that means to them.
     
  2. Potowmack

    Potowmack Member+

    Apr 2, 2010
    Washington, DC
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    DC United
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    United States
    I’d settle for neutral, and not being disruptive to the region.
     
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  3. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
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    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
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    I've been hearing that all day. I have no idea what "unconditional surrender" means to Trump.
     
  4. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And with self-determination as well. This is, ultimately, where I am.
     
  5. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    None of it will matter unless he's impeached and removed from office. Everything else is just shouting into the wind.

    Same comment as above.
     
  6. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    That he gets to install the next leader. That's what he wants.
     
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  7. Val

    Val Moderator
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    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Isn't there some Venezuelan he can install?
     
  8. Minnman

    Minnman Member+

    Feb 11, 2000
    Columbus, OH, USA
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually, I don't think he really cares. He has no goals in Iran that he wants to achieve. He just wants to be seen as a global strongman now that he's discovered the joys of being commander in chief and the toys he gets to play with in that role. Trump breaks, he doesn't build. His plan will be to somehow "win" in Iran and then head off to Cuba for another decapitation.
     
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  9. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
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    DC United
    Sep 5, 2000
    USA
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    I honestly don't think Trump recognizes objective reality as something which exists outside of his own desires and preferences.
     
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  10. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
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    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Also pass on my thanks for high gas prices to your old college buddies who voted for this!
     
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  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    We are talking about the guy who brags about recognising a giraffe in a dementia test
     
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  12. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    He absolutely cares, because he wants someone who bows to him. That's the end goal. He doesn't care if they are democratic or a theocracy. As long as they now to him at all times.

    He will sell it as being friendly to America, but he means him ultimately.
     
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  13. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The interesting thing is Grant only required unconditional surrender once — at Fort Donelson. At Vicksburg and Appomattox, Grant engaged in negotiations and agreed to terms, paroling the Confederates rather than taking them as POWs.

    In World War II despite the Casablanca Declaration, the only true unconditional surrender was Germany (though Goebbels, Himmler, and Goering all attempted negotiations). The Japan surrender though called unconditional did have assurances that the emperor would remain on the throne. Japan though occupied also retained a civilian unlike Germany (where soon after the surrender the Flensburg government was arrested and its members put on trial). Italy’s surrender was not unconditional.
     
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  14. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
  15. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
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  16. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    It's a good thing the Trump administration is aggressively pushing all those green energy initiatives the Biden administration put in place!

    Oh, wait ...
     
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  17. Sounders78

    Sounders78 Member+

    Apr 20, 2009
    Ireland
    Club:
    Seattle Sounders
    Nat'l Team:
    France

    You're forgetting the important thing - he and his friends are probably going to make a lot of money off of oil prices spiking! What could be more important than that?
     
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  18. JamesA

    JamesA Member+

    Dec 7, 2004
    Victoria
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    The Nobel Peace Prize...errr...or something
     
  19. owian

    owian Member+

    Liverpool FC, San Diego FC
    May 17, 2002
    San Diego
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yep and the US stock markets dropped too.

    Up until today the oil and stock markets weren't that bad considering there was a war on. Felt like they were giving the powers that be the benefit of the doubt. Seems like patience is running out. A week in and we are no closer to knowing how it will end, or what the end could look like.

    If oil keeps rising and stock markets falling I wouldn't be surprised if the White House doesn't declare a unilateral "Unconditional Surrender" next week.
     
  20. So both the Russians and the Chinese provide Iran the eyes in the sky by giving information of the whereabouts of the US forces (not of the Israeli forces?)

    What use is that, if you don't deliver the missiles, capable to hit them.
     
  21. Jeremy Goodwin

    Jeremy Goodwin Member+

    SSC Napoli
    Feb 16, 1999
    Club:
    Montreal Impact
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lie down and be strangled without fighting. Choke on it and don't bite.
     
  22. Thinking about that...why hasnot that mock nobel prize institute grabbed the opportunity to "award" him with something like that.
     
  23. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the birds...
     
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  24. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you kink shaming? ;)
     
  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, lots of things came out today to effect the market. The employment numbers (and revisions), the GCC suggesting an unwillingness to work with the US, contradictory messaging from a couple of Fed speakers, late in the day an Oracle/OpenAI announcement (data center not being cancelled), and, of course, oil (which is causing inflation worries). Beyond that, I think the big worry is the lack of clarity with an end point.
     
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