Iran: the collapse

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Quakes05, Aug 2, 2025.

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  1. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    This is very on point. The damage is already done. Like you said, if you're Japan, South Korea - how confident are you that the US can defend you against China and North Korea (nuclear nations) when Iran was able to hit all your bases in the Middle East while failing to defend the GCC?

    I don't think they'll lose any sleep over the US leaving the region. They dragged them into it (Rubio said as much) - that's the outcome they are looking for after Iran is put down.

    They'll still buy American but I think they want to achieve self-reliance in defense matters. They can read the room, this unconditional support from the US has an expiry date. Their approval with the upcoming generation is low, I think this as good as it will ever get for them in terms of western support.

    They have the minds and ingenuity to achieve that. With Iran and the US out of the way, they'll be in control of resources. For financing via the resources, their message to GCC will be
    upload_2026-3-5_22-9-36.jpeg
     
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  2. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Obviously we were thinking this wouldn't take long, but Israel is out for nothing less than regime change, and who knows how long that will take. You need intelligence officers to figure out what to bomb, as we're running out of preplanned targets.
     
  3. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    It depends on who "we" is. I don't think Trump or his inner circle lackeys thought it'd take long. But I'm pretty sure the Pentagon knew it would drag on. I just don't think Trump or his inner circle listened to the Pentagon.
     
  4. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This is what fascist governments sound like.
     
  5. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be China deciding to fuck with Pakistan more than they already do
     
  6. Val

    Val Moderator
    Staff Member

    Arsenal
    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Par for the course.

    We double-tapped survivors in the water coming from Venezuela.
     
  7. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I was pointing at your Glenn Diessen quote.
    Provide a source for that, thank you. Actually the EU law makers are pushing hard to do exactly that.
    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...gQFnoECB0QAQ&usg=AOvVaw3_TK2gj_W97ET4LMYyqYPi
     
  8. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    They mix things up really fast on all levels.
     
  9. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
  10. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Okay.. again. I provided a link showing you that the law makers WANT exactly what you think they want to avoid. Will this be bad news for some countries,? Sure it will. The EU can compensate those irritations of some small countries especially after the end of winter.
     
  11. Kryptonite

    Kryptonite Guinness

    Apr 10, 1999
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "I know more about ISIS than the generals."

    The only time he listens to the Pentagon is when they're taking about what to order from McDonald's.
     
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  12. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
  13. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Not Alpha enough it seems.
     
  14. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    OP is a vatnik who is always predicting the collapse of europe
     
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  15. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    These loops are annoying. :speechless:
     
  16. kribi

    kribi Member+

    Lyon
    France
    Jan 21, 2022
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Lindsay Graham said: "This is a religious war and we will determine the course of the Middle East for a thousand years."
    In short: fanatics guided by the Bible, allied with fanatics guided by the Torah, are fighting against fanatics guided by the Quran.

    I vomited

    Missile control? OK. Target in sight? OK, Fire!
     
  17. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    A 1000 years? Someone should tell them Bible lovers that there can't be a 4th Reich because according to the Bible the 3rd Reich was set up to be lasting until judgement day comes.
     
  18. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    ??
     
  19. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I thought it was interesting that there was a clear criteria, and a means to which Congress can act*. Mind, the OLC is US specific, but she also mentioned the International Law threshold, which Trump passed, and provides a point of pressure that other countries can use on Trump and his administration as well as a point in which they can unite. Mind, I don't expect most of this administration to listen so easily, particularly on Iran. But if he goes after Cuba, that will be another case, and might be some line in the (beach) sand that gets crosses for the international community.

    * - Not sure of Trump has the people who could, or would be willing, to do that, or if he even cares (or if Bondi even cares).
     
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  20. psnotyours

    psnotyours Member

    Bvb
    United States
    Mar 8, 2023
    Can't you say the same for Russia and China? You lost Venezuela in one day. You could lose Iran if this war ends, and Russia's war isn't going as planned for Russia. If Iran falls, this will be a hit on Russia, just for the fact that they make a lot of cheap drones for their war
     
  21. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    A scheduled phase‑out over several years isn’t the same as an abrupt cutoff during a crisis. The public reacts very differently to those two scenarios. Good luck - hope this works out

    If pointing out a prediction (deindustrialisation trend) that actually came true counts as "always predicting collapse", then I guess accuracy really bothers you. I wish "the garden" all the best:thumbsup:
     
  22. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This suggests that Trump is thinking strategically and long term, and I'm not sure that is really in his ability. Not just now, but always. His positions are malleable to make sure he comes out on top (what ever that means to him) and that says he is has no interest in what is best for the the US and what is best for the US allies. He has shown time and again that he has no interest nor ability in dealing with complicated multi-state solutions, hence why he deals with countries in a one-off nature (remember that picture during his first term of him sitting with arms folded as Merkle was leaning into him, and the rest of the EU was behind her?). So, while most Presidents and administrations are able to deal with the complicated multi-state negotiations, and the broader and longer term issues you bring up, I don't think this applies to Trump and his administration.
     
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  23. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It would be helpful if you let us know who that guy is. Yeah, I did look it up, but there is so much we are posting that we generally do a lot of reading, that small bits of info like letting us know he is Indian Foreign Secretary would be helpful (as he is not somebody I think most know).
     
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  24. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    You’re comparing US treaty allies that host American forces and rely on US extended deterrence with countries that have no defense treaties, no integrated command structures and no nuclear umbrella from Russia or China. Losing Venezuela or a shift in Iran’s politics isn’t equivalent to the GCC reassessing US reliability. They’re not comparable situations.

    Venezuela does not host their forces, integrate with their command structures or anchor their regional deterrence. A shift there does not alter their strategic environment. Venezuela's share of China's oil import was not that high, quite low actually. Iran is not a cornerstone of Russia security architecture since both the drones technology has already been transferred to them and can produce their own variants.

    GCC states are part of a long‑standing US security architecture built around formal defense cooperation, basing agreements and integrated military planning. This creates a level of dependence, expectation and strategic consequence that is not mirrored in the partnerships Russia and China have with Venezuela or Iran. Their ties are transactional, not institutional.
     
  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure that is quite the right phrasing - "paper tiger." I think there is a difference between tactical ability and technical ability. Technically, we do have the means to be able to so, or should be. Tactically, this administration is bereft of ideas and the inability to understand the complicated nature of human behavior that is outside their own beliefs. Tactically, we would have prepared the bases around the region, let our allies know so they could prepare, and work to find our deficiencies. But having people like Trump at the helm, Hegseth as Defense Secretary, and the now fired Noem as Homeland, there is a lack of ability this administration to be able to think critically and plan for multiple responses, and thus act accordingly. So, tactically, I agree we are a paper tiger right now. But technically, I'm not sure that is the case, though it is hard to say because the tactics are so poor.
     
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