Iran: the collapse

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Quakes05, Aug 2, 2025.

  1. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    History doesn't always repeat itself, but it likes to rhyme. There has been enough domestic pressure put on both sides of the aisle questioning the relationship with Israel that perhaps the mistakes of previous empires in decline can be avoided here. So far it seems like Trump has favored quick limited attacks, which makes sense for several reasons.
    1. The US Military is not set up for protracted conflict, but rather quick surgical shock and awe displays of force to bully lesser countries into submission.
    2. Asymmetric Warfare, combined with new moral standards really make a protracted conflict like what we are seeing in Ukraine almost impossible for a Democracy. The people don't have the appetite for it anymore.
    3. Newer missiles, combined with China sanctioning the US War Machines ability to produce interceptor missiles with the rare earth ban seemingly has nerfed some of the War Machine's ability to project as much power in the region.

    We will see. I think it will be a political error to try and distract from the Epstein Files by starting a War, but then again, not too many Trump cards left to play for this administration. They've been caught obstructing justice with their pants down and stand to lose the younger generation that propelled them into office if they keep this up.
     
  2. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Well done younger generation!
     
  3. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Further to my point, Trump really wants no part of a war against Iran but Bibi will end up getting what he wants. Trump is starring down the end of the US as a global empire.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    After telling the protesters that "help was on the way" during the upheaval, the Vice President made it clear today that the US is only after a nuclear deal in negotiations.

    A second carrier is probably soon on the way to the Gulf. Which is stupid because if we are not doing regime-changing bombing, how is it supposed to be useful? What we have over there now is already overkill for "get back to negotiations" bombing. We spent a great deal of money and disrupted a lot of military preparations for, as far as I can tell, nothing.
     
  5. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    War game projections over China taking involve say victory for the USA, but with two carriers going down..


    https://csis-website-prod.s3.amazon..._NextWar.pdf?WdEUwJYWIySMPIr3ivhFolxC_gZQuSOQ

    Found on page 88.
     
  6. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    I guess the "month of negotiations" isn't going well because the following aircraft are headed to Muwaffaq Salti Air Base in Jordan right now:

    24 F-15E
    30 F-35A
    6 EA-18G
    12 A-10C
    2 AWACs
     
    Sufjan Guzan and Dr. Wankler repped this.
  7. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And Congress authorized military when???

    (It’s sarcasm don’t “@“ me)
     
    bigredfutbol and Dr. Wankler repped this.
  8. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    To quote John F. Kennedy, there’s a reason why Profiles in Courage is a short book.
     
    Val, bigredfutbol and Anthony repped this.
  9. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair, but if one quotes Profiles, one ain’t quoting JFK, but his ghostwriter.

    Allegedly.
     
    Dr. Wankler and Anthony repped this.
  10. Quakes05

    Quakes05 Member+

    Oct 1, 2005
    birthplace of MLS
    Iran says it closed Strait of Hormuz for live fire drills as it held nuclear talks with U.S. | PBS News

    Fascinating dance going on. Closing the strait, even for a few hours, is a new provocation...

    "Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei meanwhile warned that "the strongest army in the world might sometimes receive such a slap that it cannot get back on its feet.""


    And also,

    "Iran's foreign minister later adopted a different tone, expressing optimism about the talks and saying "a new window has opened" for reaching an agreement.

    "We are hopeful that negotiations will lead to a sustainable and negotiated solution which can serve the interests of relevant parties and the broader region," Abbas Araghchi told a U.N. disarmament conference after leading the Iranian delegation at the talks held in Geneva..."
     
  11. Dr. Wankler

    Dr. Wankler Member+

    May 2, 2001
    The Electric City
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    I didn’t say he said it in Profiles. And to come clean, I was quoting historian Jon Meacham quoting JFK. Heard Meacham say it on Fresh Air about two hours earlier.
     
    bigredfutbol and Anthony repped this.
  12. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Add another AWACs (it and it's brothers are going to RAF Mildenhall), which makes 6 AWACs newly based in Europe.

    A bunch of fighters means a raid. A bunch of AWACs means a campaign.
     
  13. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    There were also 48 F-16, 12 F-22, and 35 refueling aircraft, although the latter is somewhat implied by all the fighters as they fly together across the Atlantic to allow the fighters to reach their destination. There's now 85 refueling aircraft in the Middle East.

    What's the gameplan? Downfall of the regime and not care what comes out of it? Even with that overwhelming firepower how do you dismantle the many hundred thousand strong forces of internal security? They must (I hope) have ideas. Maybe lists of targets provided by dissidents.

    As a fan of airplanes I'm a little sad that this going to mean the forever end to flyable F-14's, AH-1J, and other Middle Cold War aircraft.
     
  14. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    Chelsea
    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    *
    And hardly a peep from Congress. The only comment I have seen opposing it so far is former Congresswoman Majorie Taylor Greene

    Congress really needs to reassert its war power.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  15. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    For the most powerful force on the planet, it makes no sense that the president can just unilaterally decide to use military force somewhere like bombing Nigeria on Christmas Day for shits and giggles or kidnap a leader of a foreign country because of how he dances. It’s ridiculous if you think about it and very undemocratic.
     
    roadkit repped this.
  16. celito

    celito Moderator
    Staff Member

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As it pertains to Venezuela ... technically it was an "undemocratic" move against an undemocratic Government.
     
  17. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    By that thinking we should have installed puppets all over the Mideast and world for that matter
     
  18. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The post-Vietnam way of doing this has been dead for a while now. This topic might fit into “necessary but not sufficient.”
     
    soccernutter repped this.
  19. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I’m very, very, very nervous that we are going to get into a protracted conflict with Iran, and partner with Israel in doing so. Not only will that be bad for America just in and of itself, if my fear comes true, it’s going to turbocharge antisemitism.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  20. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Bunch of tankers and cargo aircraft flying in today.

    Israel is on highest alert. Poland is telling its citizens to get out of Iran using rather panicked language.
     
  21. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And the big problem is that this is likely being used as a distraction.
     
  22. From what?
     

Share This Page