Iran: the collapse

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Quakes05, Aug 2, 2025.

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  1. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
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    Borussia Mönchengladbach
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    #426 Dage, Jan 18, 2026
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2026
    this is misleading. These are new kind of ballistic missiles. All modern ballistic missiles are hypersonic. The evolution is the kinda "manoeuvrebility". But what that really means nobody knows. It's rather the ability to adapt new targets than dodging anti air. New anti air systems are able to defend even during the time the missile is in space and even patriot systems have a surprisingly big chance to intercept these kind of missiles.

    Real hyper speed weapons and this is what everybody really wants to achieve are missiles that reach hypersonic speed and manoeuvrebility without entering outer space. Think of a cruise missile or an anti ship missile with hypersonic speed. These would be weapons that are really revolutionary and these are the kind of weapons everybody fears and these would be undefendable currently. Nobody has these weapons, yet.

    To call ballistic missiles "hypersonic" is more of a propaganda move than real advanced ability. Although I doubt heavily that the Chinese are risking their newest developments in a country like Iran.

    Edit: about the writer if the post you linked: Eirwen Williams is a New York-based journalist at Sustainability Times, covering science, climate policy, sustainable innovation, and environmental justice. With a background in journalism acquired through a specialized program in New York, he explores how cities adapt to a warming world. With a focus on people-powered change, his stories spotlight the intersection of activism, policy, and green technology.

    That really is the typical writer who does know what about military technologies?
     
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  2. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    China does. Their DF-ZF is in service, and they have multiple other models of glide vehicles for anti-shipping purposes. In the 2025 parade they revealed a couple types of hypersonic cruise missiles, but we know nothing of their status. I don't think anyone doubts they are in the lead in this tech.
     
  3. Dage

    Dage Moderator
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    Jun 4, 2008
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    It's still a ballistic missile that needs entering orbit to reach hypersonic speed. They build a workaround so to speak to realize a hypersonic speed flight. It's still vulnerable as a ballistic missile until the last part of the flight where it could maintain hypersonic speed with a flat curve. I do not doubt that China is capable in this field of research. It is still not a hypersonic speed weapon, that could make a US carrier group undefendable. That is pure speculation. I also doubt that China risks one of their high-tech assets in a highly destabilised Iran.
     
  4. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    I would think that if a carrier was hit at the water line with a coconut at hypersonic speed...it would sink the boat. :geek:
     
  5. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    No, it's an actual maneuvering body. You can just look at a picture of it and see that it isn't a simple re-entry vehicle.

    df-17-image12.jpg
     
  6. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
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    Why no? I said the same. The crucial point is, they still need to go into orbit to reach that speed. And can we aggree on that it's very unlikely these things were stationed in Iran?
     
  7. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
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    The whole point of having a hypersonic lifting body is that it isn't going to be high or ballistic or predictable when it's anywhere close to you. There is no vulnerable stage.
     
  8. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

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    San Rafael, CA
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    #433 spejic, Jan 18, 2026
    Last edited: Jan 18, 2026
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  9. That's what the hyperspeed is about, you don't need a warhead on top of it.
    Just look at that small meteorite that hit iirc Russia a few years ago at a speed of around 30,000, or was it higher km.
    Iirc that fragment only weighed about a kilo.
    I think scientist call it kinetic impact or something like that.
    There was mentioned an application of a hypervelocity weapon, which would, like you use a shotgun, spread a cloud of a couple of decimeters long rods hailing down at hypersonic speed on the target.
    I don't think you can defend against such a cloud of rods coming at you. You have to take them out all, with no exception.
     
  10. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
  11. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
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    Wasn't the US because we don't like that Shah guy.
     
  12. Who's we?
    Can't imagine the Iranians do like him. His father did the same the ayatollas are doing now, murdering big scale the opposition in the streets and hospitals.
     
  13. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
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    The government.

    Pro-Shah slogans and graffiti were ubiquitous in the protests. I believe that that isn't necessarily a real interest in bringing him in to lead, but as a symbol of wanting drastic change.
     
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  14. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
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    The Abraham Lincoln group is two days away. Flocks of transports and refueling aircraft are flying from America towards the bases that would be used in an attack in Iran. We're still on the path to violence.
     
  15. yasik19

    yasik19 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Chelsea
    Ukraine
    Oct 21, 2004
    Daly City
    Is anyone surprised that no country (at least I don't think in the "West") has reprimanded or expelled Iran's ambassador over the recent murders of protesters?
     
  16. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Trump TACOed on that, but tonight he again said he would put 25% tariffs on any nation doing business with Iran.

    I assume he TACOed when someone told him that it would only mean a tariff on China and he didn't want to do that and now he's totally forgotten and trying the tariff again for the first time.

    Is it even worth listening to Trump? He uses the hardest language on things that never happen.
     
  17. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
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    So now the rumors are that multiple Middle Eastern nations are demanding air protection from Iranian retaliation for the probable American strike. Multiple cargo aircraft left the US today headed for the area presumably carrying Patriots and similar equipment. So we have to wait for that stuff to be set up I guess.
     
  18. I thought they had nothing left to launch?
     
  19. Robert Borden

    Robert Borden Member+

    Chelsea
    Canada
    Apr 19, 2017
    Toronto, Ontario
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    A take that is rarely discussed is that at its core, this is about geography and trade routes.

    Iran sits at a critical crossroads between China, Russia, Central Asia, the Middle East and Europe. Alongside Russia and China, Iran is part of broader Eurasian efforts to expand land-based trade corridors, including planned railways and infrastructure linking Asia to Europe. These routes don’t replace maritime trade but they reduce US leverage over global commerce by moving a portion of trade outside US-dominated sea lanes, chokepoints and financial controls.

    Control over oceans, shipping insurance, sanctions enforcement and maritime chokepoints gives Washington enormous influence over who trades, how and at what cost.

    Expanded Eurasian rail and land routes would lessen reliance on maritime pathways where the US and its allies hold outsized influence and make sanctions harder to enforce & easier to bypass. This would strengthen economic integration among US rivals and embed Iran into a major trade network the US cannot easily dominate or exclude.

    From that perspective, Iran cannot be allowed to fully integrate the Russia-China alliance and according to US think-thanks, must be balkanized with the Persian majority ending up on a landlocked territory.

    Historically, global powers has usually depended on influence over Eurasia so the US can't ignore this nor allow it to happen. This is also why we're seeing Russia and China more involved in helping the Iranians defend themselves
     
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  20. I think I made this point already in the Iran war thread, but I might remember wrong. Iirc I pointed at it when one of the posters pointed at the choke points for China in the sea routes.
    But that is something that might be gone too.
    There's no American base left in the Phillipines, and just yesterday I watched an episode from a Dutch reporter about the South Chinese sea, and he heared about a new deploiment of marines on the coast of that sea. So he went to look for them, but he couldnot find any. The only thing he saw were abandoned and overgrown baracks from the Vietnam war and retired marines, who live there, because it's far cheaper than the USA.
    He went out in that sea with Phillipine to contested islands, and the place is littered with Chinese coast guard vessels.
    upload_2026-1-26_0-38-10.png
     
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  21. waitforit

    waitforit Member+

    Dec 3, 2010
    Valcea
    Club:
    FC Steaua Bucuresti
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    Romania

    Iranian banks have asked Iran's Central Bank for 5.6 quadrillion rials (around $3.8 billion), and the Central Bank has agreed to print and loan 2 quadrillion rials (around $1.36 billion) to the banks, many of which are insolvent. - Mehr
     
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  22. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    That kind of action isn't without consequence. The inflation rate in Iran (from Iran's own government numbers) was 60% in January alone.
     
  23. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I do wonder how Turkey is viewing all of this.
     
  24. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    A message from the Saudi State Information Agency says "The crown prince of Saudi Arabia told the president of Iran that he will not allow the use of airspace or land in any military actions against Tehran".

    Translated into English: "Please don't shoot at us".
     
  25. I thought the threat of Iranian missiles was eliminated after the Tanman/bibi campaign.
     

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