Iran: the collapse

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by Quakes05, Aug 2, 2025.

  1. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    When all of this started, and even into a day or two ago, the US didn't have the military assets in the region that it would need for a sustained operation in Iran. But I understand those assets are now moving into the region.
     
  2. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    They were forced to surrender, but they still existed and functioned. Iranian leadership isn't surrendering because they know the next day they will be hanging from the gallows.
     
  3. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
    We spend $900 bn a year with bases all over the friggin place and it still takes days to get shit ready? Sounds like we ain't getting good bang for the buck.
     
  4. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Cascarino's Pizzeria repped this.
  5. Cascarino's Pizzeria

    Apr 29, 2001
    New Jersey, USA
  6. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Yeah, but the same is true of the Air Force assets. Both the Middle East bases and distant bases for long range bombers are now getting lots of cargo planes, which means they didn't have the means to do bombing missions before. Nothing was ready.
     
    Knave repped this.
  7. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    I think the undercurrent of this, as well as the Gerald Ford being "too overstretched" 7 months into a deployment is that contrary to what some on this board believe-->the new hypersonic missiles are real problems for American deployment of Naval Power abroad. As soon as the Houthi's starting using them, we pulled that carrier group out really quickly. And made sure to not have any in the region (probably as part of Trump and Bibi's ongoing power struggle with each other).

    Nothing in the Western Hemisphere will be able to touch the Gerald Ford. War Game estimates about war over Taiwan indicate us losing two aircraft carriers. If we are sending two into the region (The Lincoln and the Bush), to me that indicates that hypersonics have actually changed the game so to speak.
     
    Val repped this.
  8. That was clear the moment the Chinese, according to US military, successfully tested such a weapon iirc lat year in the Pacific.
     
  9. Actually it raises the question whether aircraft carriers are useful anymore in the pacific.
    In case of a conflict with China you can't put those carriers within 6000km from their coast as those hypersonic things cover that distance in just over half an hour. But that far away, you can't use your jets anymore, because these can't cover that distance.
     
  10. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    There are no hypersonic missiles in Iran's arsenal.
     
  11. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Multiple European nations and Japan have announced a reduction or total evacuation of their embassies in Iran.

    The US has withdrawn completely from Ain al Asad airbase in Iraq, turning it over to the Iraqis. Other bases in the Middle East are also being evacuated.

    The USS Abraham Lincoln carrier group is going full speed.

    Seems the off-the-record word from people in the administration is that there is 100% going to be an attack.
     
    celito repped this.
  12. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    China sells / gives some components that are used in Houthi missiles, but they don't send complete anti-ship missiles. If they won't do that, there's no way they are going to give the newest, highest tech (not to mention most expensive) weapons.
     
  13. Well, the best way to test those things is in use for the purpose you make them.
    So from a logical pov it would serve them best giving them to Iran to protect themselves against aircraft carriers.
    Given the range and speed of those things, even Diego Garcia isnot safe.
    Actually you wouldnot have to give them in reality, just the empty shells and tell they got them.
     
  14. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    You don't want to test weapons like that, because then the enemy leans how to deal with them. You want to keep them all until a big conflict and then use them overwhelmingly.

    Besides, selling dual-use components give you deniability. Giving the Houthis top grade military tech is declaring war on every nation that uses the Red Sea.
     
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  15. Sufjan Guzan

    Sufjan Guzan Member+

    Feb 13, 2016
    There are unconfirmed reports that two planes that originated from China landed in Iran across the past couple of days, even with Iranian airspace closed. No idea if this is true or propaganda.

    https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com...-delivery-us-tensions/videoshow/126542279.cms
     
  16. Tribune

    Tribune Member+

    Jun 18, 2006
    I do not understand. The uprising seems to have been suppressed (at least for now), so what is the idea behind an attack?
     
  17. The Americans only have to believe those missiles are there, ready for use.
    Given a lethal attack on the ayatolla regime pending, the fear those things will be used against the carrier is enough to put it out of harms way and as such useless.
    Satelite images can't see if these things are real or not, but given you're coming to get rid of the ayatollas doesnot gice much space to manouver.
    Attack and you can lose a 13 billion ship (+ how many casualties on board?) or not.
    Can you take that gamble and at the same time for ever remove the ambiguity in the Pacific from unproven to "fok, we're in trouble".
    Remember these things can reach Hawaii within 30-45 minutes.
    To fok with the US military mind Xi simply has to unload in Iran things that look very much like the hypervelocity things and watch how the reaction is. Remember Iran is essential for Xi's Silk road.
     
  18. Mid terms.
     
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  19. Dage

    Dage Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 4, 2008
    Berlin
    Club:
    Borussia Mönchengladbach
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    China has no hypersonic weapons as well. Nobody does. The Arabic nations intervened and the US stopped the attack.
     
  20. Sufjan Guzan repped this.
  21. Tribune

    Tribune Member+

    Jun 18, 2006
    Oh. THAT. Forgot about it.
     
  22. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Trump is one of the most narcissistic people who has ever lived.

    The “idea” is that not being the center of attention causes him to undergo severe psychological stress. He can’t stand to sit and observe world events, IOW.
     
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  23. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That’s 10 months away. You’re being silly.
     
  24. spejic

    spejic Cautionary example

    Mar 1, 1999
    San Rafael, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    To further superdave's post, Trump does not have ideologies or morals. He has moods. What he sees is a chance to put his name on events, even if the events aren't his, just as he takes every chance to put his name on buildings even if he didn't build them.

    I am very much on the side of the people here, and would be in favor of the US acting in Iran to help them against the government. But I am wary because attempts have failed in the past. And the reason is one that is especially true here - they were done for goals besides helping the people. As Lennier said in Babylon 5's episode 'Comes the Inquisitor', "If you do the right thing for the wrong reasons, the work becomes corrupted, impure, and ultimately self-destructive.".
     
    Quakes05, Dr. Wankler and Mike03 repped this.
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ^^^^^^^^

    If I post something here like, maybe Trump is looking out for the Iranian people, he’s trying to make the world a better place, it would literally be a laughable post. The idea is absurd and surreal.
     

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