Scholes easily one of best of all time and way better than Schweinsteiger. Anything else is delusional. I don't know where this sudden surge of support for him came from considering how little he's played in the CM role and what little portion of that he's actually excelled.
We aren't talking about Scholes entire career, but contemporary Scholes. He is average at best right now, which is to be expected given his age. I don't know what constitutes all-time great status in your mind, but I certainly wouldn'y place him in the best 25 midfielders of all time. Certainly top 100.
Well, why on earth would anyone compare Schweinsteiger to a 37 year old Scholes? Top 25, maybe not, but yea I meant top 100 certainly. I would be curious though if a 37 year old Schweinsteiger would still be able to cut it at the highest level.
Given Schweinsteiger's injury proneness I highly doubt that he will be playing at all past the age of 34. Its too bad he wasted so many years out on the wing. Who knows how he would have developed if he played in a central role earlier on in his career. Scholes and Giggs have amazing longevity, when they hang up their boots Sir Alex is going to have to spend a lot of money to replace them.
I agree with you, he's been fantastic this season. But Pirlo was possibly the best midfielder at the Euro's, and his move to juventus helped transform them. I don't question your commitment to supporting one of the best midfielders in the world, but as a huge schweini fan i'd have to give this to pirlo. Lets hope he proves me wrong throughout the year.
Perhaps because he is old and injured half the time? Perhaps because most wanted to start him at the EM but he wasn't fit enough to start half the games? You really think that will improve come 2014? Please.
One thing we learned is that Goetze up top clearly does not make sense. I think Loew saw this as well, and I doubt we see it again. Scholes is very much past it today.
Exactly my assessment, unbelievable. People here think that every german player is the best player on the planet or something. Pirlo's move to Juventus sparked a new level for him - he's been, quite simply, indefatigable. I think Schweinsteiger is a different kind of player however, but not since 2010 has his form been the world class ability akin to Xavi or Pirlo.
Just for the record, I'd put Xavi, Pirlo and Toure all above Schweinsteiger. Now, I think Xavi is a very different kind of player - he isn't as strong or as fast but he's extremely clever. Schweinsteiger in 2010 was a world class player, he was our best player that year. But to remain at that level, you have to remain fit and consistently deliver. He hasn't because he's gotten injured for most of the season. In the CL he was woefully short of what was expected because he was barely match fit. At the Euro's, barring the Holland game, he was also quite depressing - and it was quite interesting to see how he came nowhere near Pirlo. Don't mean to hate on him. But Toure, Pirlo and Xavi have all been fit for 3 years or so, and have consistently improved since then. Schweinsteiger hasn't.
Alonso didn't get dumped, it was the entire madrid squad that did. Mourinho got his tactics wrong, against Bayern that is. You keep thinking that Madrid is somehow the best team, but they're only the best squad. Against Dortmund, a formidable team, they came short altogether - as was the case with Bayern.
People don't think that the German players are all the best in the world at their position, but you are going to get an argument when you say crazy things like that Scholes is a better player than Schweini.
To play the devil's advocate. Scholes, more than any player in the Prem this season with more than 5 appearances averages a touch every 17 seconds. Although he's past his best, that's still phenomenal retention at the highest level. If Schweinsteiger can lead his team consistently club and country he can maybe be compared to either Xavi or Pirlo.
He's old but he's no more injury prone than either of our Marios. He's yet to miss a qualifier this go around and was plenty fit at the Euros, Loew just decided to stick with Gomez. I see no reason to assume he will be hurt a year and a half from now considering he's healthy and playing in a slow league that preserves players well. If he's hurt, he's hurt and we turn to Plan B, but that's the case for any player at a position we're thin at. Or should we start fazing out Lahm since we don't have anyone who can replace him if he gets hurt? Just seems silly to cast off our best option at a position we're thin at for no real reason. Develop this strikerless formation as an alternative, not a replacement for Klose.
Right. And we know we are running out of time with Klose as well. When he finally does retire (or who knows, gets injured or happens to be unfit when he's called upon) what are we left with? It will hault our progression even more if we don't make the transition seemless and it's already very late for that. Loew should have at least started implementing it after 2010.
If Klose gets us through the WC that gives us plenty of time to install a strikerless formation or for one of our youth players to become NT caliber. I think it should absolutely be our plan B, and needs to be regularly worked on whenever Jogi has the team together, but Klose's still plan A until he's no longer able to do it.
Like I was saying we can't rely on Klose 36 to get us to the final... We need to setup a plan now. Either integrate Gomez permanently as Klose replacement or switch formations like the one tried last game... The other strikers mentioned are very young and have not stepped up in the big scheme.. Loew can't just grab any of these youngsters and say "here, your going to carry us now"
Revisionist history at work here. Klose was too injured to play in the pre-tournament friendlies and remained only partially fit from there until the match against Greece. He was unable to play even close to 90 minutes for over half our tournament games, and ended up with 1 goal. This isn't getting any better with time.
He was injured in the lead up, which is why Gomez got his chance, but he looked perfectly fine against Greece and was fit again before the tourney started. I'm just not getting why we wouldn't use our best option if he's healthy in 2014, because he won't be there for the next set of qualifying? That seems silly. I'm all for developing a strikerless formation as an alternative, but unless our first team just gets it and master the formation in the next year and a half, it won't be a stronger option than having Miro lead the line.
All that said, I would like to see us try to work on the strikerless formation with Ozil, Kroos, Schweini and Khedira in one of the qualifiers against Kazakhstan and the France friendly. Cause I do think having a front 4 with Ozil, Reus, Muller and Kroos could be phenomenal together, you'd have one of the worlds greatest playmaker surrounded by some magnificent goal scorers. I just don't expect us to master it by the WM enough for it to be a better route than letting a healthy Klose lead the line.
As i have given more thought about using kroos and Ozil in the same lineup.. Don't you guys think kroos and Ozil will constantly try to occupy the same space and keep getting in each others way? Unless kroos is asked to play a little more conservative and stay either behind Ozil, or try to link up between them or just sit outsude the box just to take shots.. Don't kroos and Ozil play the same spot for their clubs? Right behind the striker?
I think that Ozil and Kroos is the best pair of AMs for us to use a strikerless formation with because Ozil plays very high and drifts very wide or falls back to retain, while Kroos is best playing from deeper, at the tip of a midfield triangle, and pushing forward up the middle. So I think of all of our options their movements would be most complimentary, and also help create space for the wingers to get in behind.