Pre-match: International Friendly: USA vs Netherlands; March 26th 2020

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Sebsasour, Feb 1, 2020.

  1. crews46

    crews46 Member

    Oct 12, 2009
    Fairfax, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  2. Eleven Bravo

    Eleven Bravo Member+

    Atlanta United
    United States
    Jul 3, 2004
    SC
    Club:
    Atlanta Silverbacks
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With all of our guys hurt, I’d say screw this camp and go experimental YA and combined u23 camp. Let’s see who from that group can make it into the pool.

    Out: Pulisic, Antonee, Adams, Steffen, Weah, Miazga

    GK Horvath, Marcinkowski, Ochoa
    RB Yedlin, Moore, Lichaj
    CB Alvarado, Richards, Carter-Vickers
    CB Brooks, Palmer-Brown
    LB Dest, Hamalainen, Gloster
    CM Morales, Otasowie
    CM McKennie, Joao Lucas
    AM Reyna, Ledezma, Mendez
    RW Chandler, Boyd, Konrad
    FW Sargent, Miljevic, Soto
    LW Holmes, Llanez, Vassilev
     
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  3. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    Borussia Dortmund
    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    Love this. Maybe a couple switches for me but I'd love to see this.
     
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  4. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    I'snt March window conflicting with Olympic qualis?
     
  5. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    i get the sentiment, but (imo) we cant "waste" this last set before games start counting- we just dont have the windows. so if we arent able to fill a roster with reasonably close to first team players (for the usmnt) id rather see the mls vets get more reps with those available ya (horvath, yedlin, dest, brooks, morales, mckennie, sarge, holmes, boyd).

    lichaj is out for the year, i dont care about alvarado or chandler. the only other players (listed) i think have "earned" a look at this point are reyna, otasowie and vassilev (and thats being generous to the latter two).

    working around players involved in olympic qualifying our eyes need to be firmly fixed on nations league and the beginning of wc qualifying. other than ledesma breaking into his first team (and soon) youve got a bunch of guys that arent realistically close. "waste" is a strong word- and id love to see most of those guys too, in a vacuum- i just think circumstance is dictating the better use for this camp is our mls contingent.

    theres not even a starting 11 there that is both reasonable starters for the nats and not shoehorned in positionally. and a lot of guys that would sub in arent all that close to a 23 for the usmnt.
     
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  6. dlokteff

    dlokteff Member+

    Jan 22, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    I keep wanting to post stuff, but not knowing who might be in Guadalajara vs. Europe makes it futile at this point.
     
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  7. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    It seems they've secured Yueill, Cannon (noted by Berhalter) and I would bet the rest of the FC Dallas crew for the U23s (Ferreira and Pomykal).

    I would not bet on a single European player playing for their first team being released for the Olympic Qualifiers, and maybe not even top prospects like Ledezma or Llanez.

    I think most of the US-based younger crew that was in January will be in Guadalajara.

    I also would not be shocked to not see Morris or Roldan in Europe as Seattle may be in the middle of heavy fixture congestion because of CCL. I wouldn't be shocked with timing and distance for most of the MLS crew to be left home with a few exceptions.

    Left Back will be fascinating, especially with Lovitz not in January camp.
     
  8. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    updated roster, going into more detail (which is only dumber with so many injuries). steffen and miazga are almost definitely out, but theres still a full month to do so thats all im counting out.

    as i posted above my primary goals would be to integrate the guys who could realistically be involved in nations league/wc qualifying so- while im sure its crazy boring to most of you- im not going to put out only the most exciting, "new" options in a way we will never play in a game that matters.

    where there are two options id split starts (wales/holland).

    gk horvath/johnson
    rb dest/yedlin
    cb long
    cb brooks
    lb robinson/ream
    cm mckennie
    cm adams
    cm holmes
    rw morris
    st sargent/zardes
    lw pulisic

    i dont care if its johnson, guzan or hamid- whoever berhalter sees as his 2 (im assuming horvath is our in-flux 3) is should be in, and the others shouldnt be. bring in klinsmann and/or brady if you just want guys to work in camp. horvath gets a look in, johnson gets a hard test.

    i want dest and robinson against wales for sure, and i want them in close to a realistic "first" team- in terms of getting comfortable in the team/playing how berhalter wants them to. then i think gregg will go more conservative vs holland (which i dont disagree with in this case).

    at cb i just cant see us going deep. i think brooks and long are solidly berhalters pair, zimmerman ahead of miazga (with robinson even or close) and then a pretty solid dropoff to that next tier of epb, ccv. i was tempted to put epb as starting vs wales but i just cant see berhalter doing it. i dont think we need to drag zimmerman over, so ill guess some combo of epb/ccv/possibly otasowie will fight for sub minutes. here, again, im opting for using these matches as "first team" tune ups.

    i want to see adams/mckennie/holmes together for as many of these 180 minutes as possible...which, of course, means adams will probably have a 6 week calf pull and mckennie will somehow slice off his pinkie toe between now and then. morales and cappis are safe bets. yueill will/should be with the u23s and i deeply hope we dont go to roldan or trapp. cmon, ledesma/psv- get cracking!

    i wouldnt start reyna in either match- get as mad as you want- so id bring in morris (especially since pulisic is questionable). i want him to get a (couple of) good runouts though. again- with close to a first team. i dont think giving him both full games with other prospects does us any good at all. im champing at the bit to get weah back in, if pulisic cant go hes the starter. boyd, sabbi, vassilev? im not against any, but theres only so many minutes to go around. im cool with all 3 being in camp regardless.

    and to end with the saddest position of all...i think zardes will be in (and probably start at least the holland match). theres no reason NOT to give sarge at LEAST whales, though, if only to see if (hopefully) hes got that "club form doesnt matter all that much" thing donovan and bradley used to have.

    of course id rather it be jozy splitting starts with sarge but cmon...im using more than one genie worth of wishes on other guys simply being able to play.
     
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  9. Olympics are a youth tournement.
     
  10. swedust

    swedust Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    Can't tell if ironic or not, given that a few posts above yours is a match report relaying his calf injury.
     
  11. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    nah, i knew- naglesman ruled him out for two matches so i take it as not apparently serious, but also you never really know. i stretched that timeline out just long enough to miss the march friendlies for effect.
     
  12. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    as i said on another thread, it would be an interesting outside of the box idea to use the threat of being called for these two games to secure U23 players for that tournament, at least for the mexico group game and the semi assuming. you basically play short a handful for games 1 and maybe 2, and the final if you make it. but only game 1 of that bunch is really a contest.

    and you could use this threat for "graduated" eg Pulisic as well as "newly first team" eg reyna as well as marginals. if they play chicken we then call them to the senior team which is short the age groupers anyway. we need bodies and might as well experiment.

    which if you view U23 as a bonus then you get them one way or the other. if dortmund says no olympics, fine, legally have to release him for senior games on an international date in europe.

    OR

    you treat this as dress rehearsal and use LoN as an experiment. i think it would be asking for burn out to call the same people from now to november. the euros would lose break time and the MLSers would have that much longer a haul this year. my guess is the determinative june rank is out before june games. so march is the cynical rank-padding concern. LoN is just the classic "GC" distraction we always fall for.

    i wouldn't be surprised if we do it "because system." "i need every minute i can get with my leading players to teach them to try and slowly build up through the teeth of the defense......."
     
  13. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    if i was instead ventriloquizing the coach, i expect the U23 team to be picked first and then he works around it. no sneakiness about availability from GB. so the first team euros are with the senior team, and the age groupers might be with the U23s. few experiments, any holes filled by senior caps since january 2019. holmes and maybe reyna in. maybe gall or gooch. adams out hurt, weah left off like holmes was even healthy.

    if a U23 is uncapped and not released for olympics he probably leaves them off as well, except maybe reyna. "not your time." unlike JK he is not a man to sense opportunity and upside.

    i think sargent needs work and ideally should be backup to someone like wood. i expect for GB it'll be more like zardes. there is no way in heck you leave off someone with 3 goals in the LoN group, 6 total already, and averaging a goal every other game, even if he's slow and his game needs work. it's a production position and on cold numbers he's outproducing everyone at striker. you replace him when you find someone else who can put up senior numbers.

    but that's games that count. games that don't count i'd be checking out soto and siebatcheu and wood. anyone else interesting to "see if they can put up senior numbers." then you have your QB battle and can take changes from an informed perspective.

    i expect vanilla ice cream sandwiches from GB. Zardes then Sargent.
     
  14. What does this mean?
     
  15. Eighteen Alpha

    Eighteen Alpha Member+

    Aug 17, 2016
    Club:
    Stoke City FC
    Seems unnecessarily pessimistic
     
  16. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Americans who may not have broken into the lineup of their respective clubs may benefit from having an opportunity to perform in a showcase against Holland’s finest.

    Players like Ledezma at PSV, etc.
     
  17. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    100%.

    One thing you can always say about this team, without fail, is "I wonder what we're going to do at left back?"
     
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  18. Master O

    Master O Member+

    Jul 7, 2006
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's US Soccer. Pessimism is their middle name.
     
  19. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It seems to me that our personnel profile cries out for a 352 type approach because Dest is a guy we want to play but he needs defensive support for that rwb position he plays and we don't really have a good offensive type lb and our best left feet, Brooks and Ream, could use help on the left. Moreover, we don't really have a physical type stay-at-home 6. Adams could be profitable venturing forward which again means we have another position that profits from a 3rd cb.

    Add in the fact that we have some depth at cb.

    I think there have been teams which have gone 352 and moved into the 4 man back line over time.

    Again: the system is the big roadblock. It blocks all avenues for development. Pity BS posters, "they stab it with their steely comments but they just can't kill the beast".
     
  20. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Are we sure Dest needs defensive help? I watched with my own eyes as Dest went 1v1 for 70ish minutes with Canada’s Davies and won the battles all night. Davies and Canada were ineffective attacking our right while Dest was there. Also Dest was able to attack their left enough to push Davies into defensive postures and really eliminate their most dangerous side.
     
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  21. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Davies is an absolute monster player. He looks like a man among boys at Bayern and regularly roasts top bundesliga talent. Losing a battle here and there with Davies is to be expected. Davies may even be the top player in CONCACAF.
     
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  22. Calling BS

    Calling BS Member

    Orlando City
    United States
    Jan 25, 2020
    Not sure you are reading my point clearly. I’m stating that Dest proved his defensive mettle that night. And quite possibly made clear to Bayern that Dest should be purchased for their other side FB spot.

    So why would we shift our Nats formation to cover for something that may not exists.
     
  23. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    I agree that Dest as a RB is a very good defender. In the U20 game vs France and the game against Canada, he was excellent. It is when played out of position on the left that he has had less than acceptable performance.

    Adams certainly doesn't need defensive cover. In fact, Adams at the 6 would cover for all the shaky CBs we have. If a 3 man back line shape is desirable, that can be used without the team spending the whole game in a 3 man back line. Most of 2019 was the USMNT shifting from a back 4 to a back 3 in transition. It was done very predictably and slowly. Hopefully, in 2020, we see it done more unpredictably and more quickly.
     
  24. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    are we mathematically in already? and will the LoN games count for ranking?

    i know snobs love this scheduling but i'm looking at holland away wales away then honduras and a Mexico/CR winner/loser (depending) and asking myself where the results are (particularly under this coach) and why we picked this route to the finish line to make the hex

    someone was posting the international window is early june and then the June ranks come out mid-June, so depending what they include LoN might in fact count

    the LoN we have no control over but a team with a brain -- unless it's mathematically in -- would give itself at least one if not two gimmees before the summer final four, to make it academic
     
  25. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    It would be impossible to drop out of the Top 6 in CONCACAF in the next 6 months.
     

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