Pre-match: International Friendly: USA vs Netherlands; March 26th 2020

So you get the same view from different continents. Must be true then

 

All of us that grew up and watched the Europeanization of the Brazilian national team new this always. I remember when there were two Brazilian teams almost. One of just Brazilian league players and another one of players from European leagues. As the national team became more and more European there was always backlash from the fans about some star from the Brazilian league being snubbed.

 

...So my theory is correct? Brazilian soccer was one way through the 70s and into the 80s. Their teams became made up of European-based players, playing to fit into European clubs, surrounded by European culture, coached by Europeans, and trained by European trainers.

Taking a wild guess here, but I think it's almost a certainty that the Brazilian NT of Pele and Socrates is faaaar different than the current culture of Neymar and Coutinho.

 

Would jogo bonito (assuming typical high-quality players) be successful against today's Euro total voetbal?

 

the athleticism required at elite levels today would destroy old school players IMO.

FWIW, I like Mike over LeBron.

 

It's the style, tho. Slow and methodical, then beat your opponent with a quick pass and serpentine dribble. Even if the players don't smoke and drink during the week. I have a feeling it's forever dead, jogo bonito, only to be found on the streets of the favelas.

 

It wasnot in 1974 already against the Orange Team, but today there's no national team capable of playing total football because of lack of tactical drilling into itand the lack of a tactical mastermind conducting it. The 1974 Orange squad was blessed with the two tactical master minds of those days on the pitch with Cruijff and van Hanegem.
Second reason is most (probably all) national teams also lack the top quality players from back to front without weaknesses.
The only team that approached the 1974 Orange squad was that of 1996.
In club football when you're willing to spend the money you can assemble such a total football team. National teams have to play the hand given.

 

I'll keep up this slightly off topic - one of my lifelong dreams was fulfilled in Brazil at the 2014 WC: playing on the beach with Brazilians in a pick up game. It was locals vs internationals. At one point I got the ball on the right after a turnover. There was one guy to beat and tons of space all the way to the water jug goals. I looked up and saw the british kid making a run and I passed him the ball and he scored. My Brazilian defender just looked at me and shook his head like "dude, you don't get the joy and beauty of this game, you just want to win". He was clearly excited about a 1v1 dual and it was out of his comprehension that I deprived us of that to hit a wide open player in front of the goal. He had a point, there wasn't even beer riding on the game. Who cares, have fun...BTW the internationals crushed the locals, but we had far less fun on the day.

 

Play the fawkin' kids! This is a juicy team that if allowed to play would be a joy to watch and probably do quite well. Note I have not checked this line-up for players needed in the U-23 team and I'm assuming injuries have healed suitably. I gotta tell you, that young midfield - I might get back to my USMT obsession and go see this game to watch Adams/McKennie/Pulisic/Reyna/Ledesma linking up and playing with abandon. With a young but maturing backline of Dest, Robinson and Long and Brooks' senior leadership behind them, I'd let slip the dogs of war and let those guys fly. Especially since we are not getting as much goal production from the forwards. Hmm, maybe put Morris up there or even throw Weah on and play a false nine. If we lose it will be whoever scores last - the score would be 5-4 and its a toss-up who gets it.

4-2-3-1
GK: Steffen
RB: Dest
CB: Brooks
CB: Long
LB: Robinson
CM: Adams
CM: McKennie
RW: Reyna
AM: Ledesma
LW: Pulisic
F: Sargent

Subs:
GK: Hamid
RB: Cannon
CB: Miazga/EPB
LB: Ream
CM: Bradley/
RW: Morris/Yedlin
AM: Lletget/Holmes
LW: Weah
F: Altidore/Morris

PS: pretty much the only thing I ever agreed with Klinsmann on is that Yedlin is a natural winger. I think in defense he doesn't close down enough - he contains but is so far back his mark can cross or shoot without much interference - which doesn't make sense because his recovery speed should allow him to be more aggressive defensively.

 

bradley is a terrible sub as you can’t drop him into a game - when he is in the game in the CM , significant compensations need to be made. Why would we do that if we’re behind (he doesn’t really help our attack)?

Hopefully, we agree that we certainly shouldn’t add Bradley when holding onto a tight lead given his known defensive liabilities / defensive gravity.

 

Isn't Bradley out till July?

He haunts the team.

This roster comes down to, does Gregg call in:

Antonee Robinson
Duane Holmes
Gio Reyna

Any roster without those three is a major disappointment (unless for some reason Wigan and Dortmund release those players for OQ).

Does he leave home:

Roldan
Trapp
Zimmerman
Lovitz

Then it comes down, with Yueill gone, Trapp terrible, and Bradley hurt, do we see Adams start as the 6?

If he gets that all correct, then we can talk about icing like Ledezma and Weah.

 

I can't even fathom such a dumb thought process from the Brazilian. The beauty of the game is in the mind. See all the options. Instantaneously calculate the best play and execute it. You did that. He failed because of some half assed notion that "beautiful football" is dribbling around everybody. Horseshit. Beautiful football is doing what you did.

 

That guy must have been high or something, isn’t that what soccer is about?? Putting the ball into the back of the opponents net?

 

It's a cultural thing. I see it a lot in basketball as well. There's basketball fans who love team play and quick passing and getting easy buckets.

And then there's basketball fans -- and I'd argue most players -- who really think the purest form of the game is one on one play.

This manifests most clearly in discussions of who's the best player. For many, it's the player who could basically win a one on one tournament. For others, it's who helps their team win the most games in a team context.

I'm firmly on the "team winning" being the goal ... but I'd say most hardcore NBA fans watch for the moments of individual brilliance, and not team play. They want to see the spectacular cross over and fade away, not the smart pass to an easier shot.

 

I'm interpreting that look - but you could see how the Brazilians played, just enjoying the complexities and finding situations that produced amazing things. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about the pass since once my speed went I realized I had no 1v1 skills. My favorite moments on the pitch are some of the passes and crosses I've made, more so than the goals. But it's hard to put into words how they played, I liked it - probably a lot more fun. If there was a trophy riding on it, maybe they play very differently. Their ball skills were insane.

 

I need to see Holmes more - haven't seen him play enough. But I liked what I saw...

 

I didn't imagine he'd make the field, just there for insurance. And yeah - probably want him higher up if we can't find that last pass. Agree he is slowing down and can't track back defensively. And now that I know he's hurt its already a no.

Geoff Cameron for experienced DM sub? Or has he burned his bridges?

 

That reminds of a Nigerian guy I played with in college. He was big, fast, and super skilled, but he would only score like 5 goals per season, when he should have easily been scoring 15-20 and at least making the all-conference team. He would always try to beat defenders 1v1 even when he had an easy passing or shooting opportunity. One time our coach got really frustrated with him and yelled at him at halftime, "What the heck do you think the job of a forward is?" We all obviously expected him to answer that it was scoring goals, but instead, he responded, "Making defenders look stupid." That clarified so much for me about how he and players like him saw the game...and of course our coach was apoplectic after that response.

 

I have had similar experiences. We used to play pickup games at the university. We used to play the America’s(South and North) vs Africa/Middle East. The Africa/Middle East team had tons of skill. They ran around megging everybody and celebrating like they had scored a goal. We could beat them by 10 goals and they could care less.

 

there are USMNT posters here who value aesthetics more than winning...

 

Boo.Thumbs down reaction to an interesting tangent.
Sorry.

 

Well after all this is supposed to be entertainment. So each his own.

 

IMO, it’s the same tangent: some
people don't care as much about winning.

 

For me it's about context. A friendly? Play like you are on the beaches of Brazil - express yourself, learn as a team how to elevate your play when there's not much on the line, become confident in yourself and your team. A qualifier away in CONCACAF? Play like you are on the beaches of Normandy and do anything to win the game and it doesn't have to be pretty.

What you hope is that the beautiful play in the friendlies translates into better football in the games that matter. But with the USMNT so far down every friendly has the same pressure as a qualifier, and that may hurt us down the line. For me it is the new generation that will carry us through 22 and 26, blood as many now and get them playing together. As a fan I will try not to get overly excited about the friendlies, unless I see they are not using them like they should.

 

I am all for getting the younger, higher ceiling guys into the squad asap and seeing how the interact with our core players (Pulisic, Adams, Weston, Brooks, Dest, Steffen).

the guys I don't particularly want to see are the over-25 minor leaguers who aren't all-star/Best XI candidates: Lovitz, Trapp, Bradley, Lletget, Roldan, Green, Zardes, Wood, Boyd, Arriola

Will we call some of these guys given our lack of depth? Ok and I'm partial to a couple on that list (Zardes and Arriola), but really don't want to see them except as true depth pieces. For friendlies, I'd be looking very hard at high upside players, rather than these guys.

BTW, the comment about aesthetics was more about style of play rather than roster selection. Some people want attractive possession based soccer because it's more entertaining while I just want to win. I don't believe that playing "beautiful ball" in friendlies leads to better football in games that matter. As a great fighter stated: everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face.