Post-match: International Friendly: USA vs Jamaica; June 5th 2019

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by tomásbernal, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. orcrist

    orcrist Member+

    Jun 11, 2005
    Bay Area, California, USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And, if I'm not mistaken, the sole SoG was from Sargent, the one who didn't make the cut :-|
     
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  2. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    Of course it is relevant. The system and the coach do matters.

    Look at RM this year.

    Look at at Argentina over recent years.

    Those teams are loaded with the best talents in the world, yet they underachieved because the lack of leadership and a 'winning' system/style.

    In contrast, look at Liverpool. Now that team has a really good coach, a very good system, and excellent leadership throughout.
     
  3. Editor In Chimp

    Editor In Chimp Member+

    Sep 7, 2008
    Twellman is okay. I can't say I ever learn anything by listening to his insights but he's at least not afraid to constructively criticize.

    Holden is just sort of there, and fills space with words that don't add anything. I'm not sure what the point of him is other than to be "Ex-Athlete v2.0" in the booth.

    There's a commentator that pops up on NBCSN Premier League broadcasts every so often that I really enjoy; I'm not sure who it is (it's not Le Saux or Dixon), I think he's like part of the 4th choice team on the feed they used from Sky or whoever, but he's absolutely fantastic. Constructive, insightful, and points out little things throughout the broadcast that enhance what you're watching.

    Too many American color commentators thing filling dead air=contributing.
     
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  4. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Twellman and "insights" is more than a little on the side of being oxymoronic or possibly simply moronic. Fox has no one that really talks about the play that is going on and provides accurate analysis of what is happening on the field.

    We are really a bad soccer team right now and all the on screen talent does is try to explain it away or avoid talking about the problem completely.

    The really sad thing is that they and those that hire and evaluate those folks think they are doing a good job. Therefore we will continue to head stupidity and irrelevancies oozing out of their mouths during most all soccer matches televised.
     
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  5. ipass

    ipass Member

    Jan 2, 2015
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Glad someone else saw how atrocious they looked. What was Nike thinking? Just hope the women's kit is better.
     
  6. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    THIS ^^^

    When you have better tools, better resources, better players; yet you still lost to a lesser team. What's the one variable that stands out? Yes, the coaching staff. The leadership.

    It's not the score line that worry me, nor was the number of shots, but what concerned me most is the fact that these guys showed absolutely zero urgency, confidence, or cohesiveness on the field.

    It's like they all arrived at the field 15 min before kick off, put on their cleats and jersey, and got thrown onto the pitch. They haven't a clue what to do out there.
     
  7. ipass

    ipass Member

    Jan 2, 2015
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    What was Nike thinking?
     
  8. ipass

    ipass Member

    Jan 2, 2015
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    The funniest Big Soccer comment ever. And I agree with everything else you posted.
     
  9. RalleeMonkey

    RalleeMonkey Member+

    Aug 30, 2004
    here
    #234 RalleeMonkey, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    That sucks.
     
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  10. FanOfFutbol

    FanOfFutbol Member+

    The Mickey Mouse Club or The breakfast Club
    May 4, 2002
    Limbo
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Maybe the problem with selection is that we "think" the MLS is a better producer of players able to play well at the national team level that the various levels of the USL and we think that starting in the MLS is a good indicator of the quality of a player.

    It seems to me that extended play in the MLS drops a players abilities as it pertains to international soccer but the USL, being less "entitled" does not.

    I do not agree that there is a conscious bias toward the MLS in selection but I also think that the representation of the MLS on the US national team is disproportional to the talent there.

    That problem is due to Greg B placing system over talent and therefore choosing mediocre players that "fit" over those that are better but do not "fit." That is stupid in the extreme but stupid and US coaching have never been mutually exclusive.
     
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  11. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT

    That's what Klinsi been saying for years. The US plays way too soft.

    You need out hustle your opponents. You need to out tackle them, out muscle them, and break some legs out there.

    But critics say no, that's not who we are. Wake TF up, this is International soccer. You want to win, you play by their rules, or get left behind.

    We always look a lot stronger and meaner out there with Jermaine Jones in the midfield.
     
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  12. bystanderus

    bystanderus New Member

    Dec 7, 2004
    I think the USMNT will never reach the next level until it leaves the banana republics federation and joins the South America's CONMEBOL.
     
  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    It's so weird when people act as though the best players aren't also, often the fastest and most agile.
     
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  14. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    The travel would be brutal.
     
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  15. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    This is basically the snob delusion encapsulated. We can't beat Jamaica but the problem is we should be playing Argentina.

    We are hell and gone from SAm, and if we are ever combined with SAm all your little friends are coming with us too.
     
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  16. skim172

    skim172 Member+

    Feb 20, 2013
    Incidentally - does anyone else think Holden and Twellman look remarkably similar?

    I also find it hard to tell apart their voices.
     
  17. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #242 juvechelsea, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
    I think there are Pirlo/Preki/Valderrama exceptions.

    My theory is the players who stand out at this level are exceptional in some specific way(s). Tall. Fast. Highly skilled. Can shoot. Can defend. Can catch. Super smart.

    And then go out on the field and execute that. High level.

    What has happened within our team is performance is not demanded, excellence is not detected, we seem content to settle for mediocrity across the board, we favor pedigree youth players or club brand names.

    I agree that the first tier players tick multiple exceptionality boxes. But the problem is we seem disinterested in identifying second tier players who tick one box very well, and instead are pushing in the direction of all around solidity.

    I think a lot of this is an issue of identity crisis and snobs wanting to push this team in a direction and reward CVs they like. We want this to be a more technical team even if the parts aren't there. In the process of chasing that we are abandoning the other skill sets which helped build well rounded US rosters that would win regionally. Some height for headers. Lots of speed. Team defense. Keeping. And, yes, technicality, but not at the expense of everything else. And an unathletic but somewhat technical player didn't use to start ahead of a super athlete. Used to be we got this is a running sport and if Beasley is gone past you any skills deficits aren't such a big deal.

    Look at the teams that passed us last time, Honduras, Panama. Those are not subtle skill sides. They are athletic teams finally getting skilled enough they can beat us. To me we learned the exact backwards lesson, which should have been we need a more athletic team that can run up and down the field with Honduras, Panama, TnT. And having negated that issue we are then already more skilled. And then with all that speed, we have our mismatch with Mexico and CR. They have skill. We would then have speed. And yes keep working on the skill levels, but not in a vacuum. Holmes didn't look untechnical. But he also ran his a$$ off and looked fast. Hmmm. How horrifying.
     
  18. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    The point of a friendly is not the result, but to see how the team plays together. That's what it makes this one such a bad result: the team showed nothing, no accuracy, no fluidity, no ideas. They were defeated by a sorry Jamaica, a Jamaica that were to be dropped in a World Cup tomorrow, would get their behind handed to them.

    The midfield was poor, but I don't feel that excuses Sargent. He had a bad day.
     
  19. SteelyTom

    SteelyTom Member

    Mar 21, 2007
    Boston, MA USA
    Club:
    Pumas UNAM
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He had a worse day today.

    You might think, Sargent gets left off and Berhalter throws the entire striker pool into a renewed state of competition-- Morris will get another look, Zardes has improved, Soto gets featured in Poland, etc., and the message to Sargent is, you have to earn it.

    Yet-- in his comments today, Berhalter anoints Sargent the striker of the future. I can't make any sense of it.
     
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  20. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I don't care that it was a B team game, I care who he thinks the B team is, as a result how we look, and that he isn't waking up from his dream appropriately based on the final tournament roster.

    I am looking more to this weekend and the tournament for a gelled team. But accuracy and ideas wanders over to the talent end where to me GIGO. You pick the wrong people in the wrong spots and you will look scattershot.
     
  21. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    I also found the use of the 343/163 odd not so much because I am opposed to experiments but because

    this is the B team
    they have barely started camp
    and against the lesser teams in Concacaf solid vanilla organization is often our advantage.

    He'd gone so weird with the wings the offense didn't pay off, and then he's got a less effective defensive wall than we usually do for such games. Maybe the idea is that we can get away with sneaky against lesser Concacaf teams. But TnT. But why do we have to tear up the basic formula.
     
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  22. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    Zardes would have tried to cross the ball, but a gust of wind would have taken it inside the Jamaican net. 1-1.
     
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  23. bystanderus

    bystanderus New Member

    Dec 7, 2004
    I see a steady improvement from the countries playing in UEFA. Iceland would never become what they are by only playing against San Marino and Liechtenstein.
     
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  24. wrench

    wrench Member+

    May 12, 2007
    NYC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC

    ...and promptly cuts him in favor of GZ and JM. Is that like spanking your unruly kid. He played with a shit side that could not give any service. He had 2 shots on goal, although he did not convert, they were on frame. Whatever, he cut the future in favor of the past/not to be. Go figure.
     
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  25. Suyuntuy

    Suyuntuy Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    Vancouver, Canada
    I've explained it in another thread: when they informed Egg that Adams was "playing at RB Leipzig," he understood they said "playing RB at Leipzig," and that's that.
     
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