Group B selections by AI: Brazil: The "Samba" Juggernaut Formation: 4-2-2-2 (Magic Rectangle) A formation designed to fit the most attacking talent possible while maintaining a legendary wing-back presence. No. Position Player 1 GK Gylmar 2 RB Carlos Alberto (C) 3 CB Bellini 4 CB Lúcio 6 LB Roberto Carlos 5 CDM Falcao 8 CM Didi 7 RW/RM Garrincha 10 CAM Pelé 9 ST Ronaldo Nazário 11 ST/LW Romário Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 12. Taffarel, 22. Alisson Becker Defenders: 13. Dani Alves, 14. Cafu, 15. Domingos da Guia, 16. Nílton Santos, 21. Thiago Silva Midfielders: 17. Zico, 18. Ronaldinho, 19. Sócrates, 20. Rivellino, 23. Kaká Forwards: 24. Rivaldo, 25. Neymar Jr, 26. Jairzinho Spain: The "La Furia Roja" Formation: 4-3-3 (False Nine variant) Peak ball retention and technical superiority from the 2008–2012 era mixed with historical icons. No. Position Player 1 GK Iker Casillas (C) 2 RB Sergio Ramos 3 LB José Antonio Camacho 4 CB Carles Puyol 5 CB Fernando Hierro 6 CDM Sergio Busquets 8 CM Xavi 10 CM Andrés Iniesta 7 RW Raúl 9 ST David Villa 11 LW Paco Gento Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 13. Ricardo Zamora, 22. Luis Arconada Defenders: 12. Gerard Piqué, 14. Joan Capdevila, 15. Dani Carvajal, 16. Jacinto Quincoces Midfielders: 17. Luis Suárez (1960s), 18. Xabi Alonso, 19. David Silva, 20. Rodri, 21. Cesc Fàbregas Forwards: 23. Fernando Torres, 24. Emilio Butragueño, 25. Telmo Zarra, 26. Luis Enrique Belgium: The "Red Devils" Formation: 3-4-2-1 Utilising their modern tactical flexibility with all-time great goalkeeping. No. Position Player 1 GK Michel Preud'homme 2 CB Eric Gerets 4 CB Vincent Kompany (C) 5 CB Jan Vertonghen 6 RM Enzo Scifo 8 CM Kevin De Bruyne 7 CM Wilfried Van Moer 3 LM Jan Ceulemans 10 RF Eden Hazard 11 LF Paul Van Himst 9 ST Romelu Lukaku Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 13. Thibaut Courtois, 22. Jean-Marie Pfaff Defenders: 12. Toby Alderweireld, 14. Georges Grün, 15. Philippe Albert, 21. Thomas Meunier Midfielders: 16. Franky Vercauteren, 17. Axel Witsel, 18. Mousa Dembélé, 19. Youri Tielemans Forwards: 20. Dries Mertens, 23. Marc Wilmots, 24. Luc Nilis, 25. Raymond Braine, 26. Jérémy Doku Scotland: The "Dark Blues" Formation: 4-4-2 (Diamond) A squad built on legendary ball-players and one of the fiercest midfield spines in the tournament. No. Position Player 1 GK Jim Leighton 2 RB Danny McGrain 3 LB Andy Robertson 4 CB Billy McNeill (C) 5 CB Alan Hansen 6 CDM Graeme Souness 8 CM Jim Baxter 7 CM Billy Bremner 10 CAM Kenny Dalglish 9 ST Denis Law 11 ST Jimmy Johnstone Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 13. Andy Goram, 22. Ronnie Simpson Defenders: 12. Willie Miller, 14. Richard Gough, 15. Alex McLeish, 16. Tommy Gemmell, 21. Sandy Jardine Midfielders: 17. Dave Mackay, 18. John McGinn, 19. Archie Gemmill, 20. Gordon Strachan Forwards: 23. Joe Jordan, 24. Hughie Gallacher, 25. Ally McCoist, 26. James McFadden
Group C: France: The "Les Bleus" Galacticos Formation: 4-2-3-1 A squad so deep that Ballon d'Or winners are fighting for a spot on the bench. No. Position Player 1 GK Fabien Barthez 2 RB Lilian Thuram 3 LB Bixente Lizarazu 4 CB Marcel Desailly 5 CB Marius Trésor 6 CDM Patrick Vieira 8 CM Jean Tigana 7 RW Kylian Mbappé 10 CAM Zinedine Zidane (C) 11 LW Thierry Henry 9 ST Michel Platini Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 12. Mike Maignan, 22. Hugo Lloris Defenders: 13. Laurent Blanc, 14. Manuel Amoros, 15. Maxime Bossis, 16. Raphaël Varane, 21. William Gallas Midfielders: 17. N'Golo Kanté, 18. Didier Deschamps, 19. Alain Giresse, 20. Raymond Kopa, 23. Franck Ribéry Forwards: 24. Just Fontaine, 25. Antoine Griezmann, 26. Eric Cantona Hungary: The "Mighty Magyars" Formation: 4-2-4 (Historical Innovation) The team that changed football forever, led by the "Galloping Major." No. Position Player 1 GK Gyula Grosics 2 RB Jenő Buzánszky 3 LB Mihály Lantos 4 CB József Bozsik (C) 5 CB Gyula Lóránt 6 CDM József Zakariás 8 RW László Kubala 10 ST Ferenc Puskás 9 ST Sándor Kocsis 7 LW Zoltán Czibor 11 CF Nándor Hidegkuti Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 12. Gábor Király, 22. Ferenc Plattkó Defenders: 13. Károly Fogl, 14. Sándor Bíró, 15. Vilmos Vanczák, 16. Roland Juhász Midfielders: 17. Flórián Albert, 18. Tibor Nyilasi, 19. Lajos Détári, 20. Dominik Szoboszlai Forwards: 21. György Sárosi, 23. Imre Schlosser, 24. Ferenc Bene, 25. Balázs Dzsudzsák, 26. Krisztián Németh Sweden: The "Blågult" Vikings Formation: 4-3-3 Combining the legendary Gre-No-Li trio with modern icons like Zlatan. No. Position Player 1 GK Thomas Ravelli 2 RB Roland Nilsson 3 LB Erik Edman 4 CB Patrik Andersson (C) 5 CB Glenn Hysén 6 CDM Jonas Thern 8 CM Nils Liedholm 10 CAM Tomas Brolin 7 RW Kurt Hamrin 9 ST Zlatan Ibrahimović 11 LW Gunnar Gren Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 12. Ronnie Hellström, 22. Andreas Isaksson Defenders: 13. Olof Mellberg, 14. Joachim Björklund, 15. Orvar Bergmark, 16. Björn Nordqvist, 21. Victor Lindelöf Midfielders: 17. Freddie Ljungberg, 18. Anders Svensson, 19. Kim Källström, 20. Glenn Strömberg Forwards: 23. Gunnar Nordahl, 24. Henrik Larsson, 25. Lennart Skoglund, 26. Thomas Brolin Mexico: The "El Tri" Warriors Formation: 5-3-2 (Wing-back system) Built on defensive solidity and the finishing of Hugo Sánchez. No. Position Player 1 GK Jorge Campos 2 RWB Pável Pardo 3 LWB Andrés Guardado 4 CB Rafael Márquez (C) 5 CB Claudio Suárez 6 CB Héctor Moreno 8 CDM Gerardo Torrado 7 CM Luis de la Fuente 10 CAM Cuauhtémoc Blanco 9 ST Hugo Sánchez 11 ST Luis Hernández Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 12. Guillermo Ochoa, 22. Antonio Carbajal Defenders: 13. Carlos Salcido, 14. Gustavo Peña, 15. Salvador Reyes, 16. Ricardo Osorio, 21. Maza Rodríguez Midfielders: 17. Alberto García Aspe, 18. Benjamín Galindo, 19. Luis García, 20. Héctor Herrera Forwards: 23. Javier "Chicharito" Hernández, 24. Jared Borgetti, 25. Carlos Vela, 26. Giovani dos Santos
Group D now: Italy: The "Azzurri" Fortress Formation: 3-4-1-2 (Catenaccio Moderno) An impenetrable backline designed to win games 1-0 or 2-0. No. Position Player 1 GK Gianluigi Buffon 2 CB Franco Baresi 3 CB Paolo Maldini (C) 4 CB Gaetano Scirea 5 RWB Giuseppe Bergomi 6 LWB Giacinto Facchetti 8 CM Andrea Pirlo 7 CM Marco Tardelli 10 CAM Roberto Baggio 9 ST Giuseppe Meazza 11 ST Luigi Riva Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 12. Dino Zoff, 22. Walter Zenga Defenders: 13. Fabio Cannavaro, 14. Alessandro Nesta, 15. Claudio Gentile, 16. Alessandro Costacurta, 21. Giorgio Chiellini Midfielders: 17. Gianni Rivera, 18. Alessandro Del Piero, 19. Francesco Totti, 20. Sandro Mazzola, 23. Gennaro Gattuso Forwards: 24. Silvio Piola, 25. Christian Vieri, 26. Paolo Rossi Germany: The "Mannschaft" Machine Formation: 4-3-3 (Flexible) The ultimate tournament team, balanced with power, intelligence, and a legendary spine. No. Position Player 1 GK Manuel Neuer 2 RB Philipp Lahm 3 LB Paul Breitner 4 CB Franz Beckenbauer (C) 5 CB Matthias Sammer 6 CDM Lothar Matthäus 8 CM Bastian Schweinsteiger 10 CM Fritz Walter 7 RW Thomas Müller 9 ST Gerd Müller 11 LW Karl-Heinz Rummenigge Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 13. Sepp Maier, 22. Oliver Kahn Defenders: 12. Berti Vogts, 14. Jürgen Kohler, 15. Mats Hummels, 16. Andreas Brehme, 21. Karl-Heinz Förster Midfielders: 17. Günter Netzer, 18. Toni Kroos, 19. Michael Ballack, 20. Wolfgang Overath, 23. Pierre Littbarski Forwards: 24. Miroslav Klose, 25. Uwe Seeler, 26. Jürgen Klinsmann Uruguay: The "Garra Charrúa" Formation: 4-3-3 A blend of 1930-50s dominance and the world-class strike force of the 21st century. No. Position Player 1 GK Ladislao Mazurkiewicz 2 RB José Nasazzi (C) 3 LB Federico Valverde 4 CB Diego Godín 5 CB José Santamaría 6 CDM Obdulio Varela 8 CM José Leandro Andrade 10 CM Enzo Francescoli 7 RW Luis Suárez 9 ST Juan Alberto Schiaffino 11 LW Edinson Cavani Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 12. Fernando Muslera, 22. Roque Máspoli Defenders: 13. Paolo Montero, 14. Schubert Gambetta, 15. Víctor Rodríguez Andrade, 16. Darío Rodríguez Midfielders: 17. Pedro Rocha, 18. Álvaro Recoba, 19. Diego Forlán, 20. Rubén Paz, 21. Ghiggia Forwards: 23. Héctor Scarone, 24. Pedro Petrone, 25. Darío Silva, 26. Darwin Núñez Denmark: The "Danish Dynamite" Formation: 3-5-2 High-octane football focused on the creativity of the Laudrup brothers. No. Position Player 1 GK Peter Schmeichel (C) 2 CB Morten Olsen 3 CB Daniel Agger 4 CB Søren Lerby 5 RM Preben Elkjær 6 CDM Jan Mølby 8 CM Frank Arnesen 7 LM Allan Simonsen 10 CAM Michael Laudrup 11 CAM Brian Laudrup 9 ST Jon Dahl Tomasson Remaining Squad (12-26): Goalkeepers: 13. Kasper Schmeichel, 22. Thomas Sørensen Defenders: 12. Simon Kjær, 14. Ivan Nielsen, 15. Thomas Helveg, 16. John Sivebæk, 21. Jesper Olsen Midfielders: 17. Christian Eriksen, 18. Thomas Gravesen, 19. Jesper Grønkjær, 20. John "Faxe" Jensen Forwards: 23. Harald Nielsen, 24. Ebbe Sand, 25. Flemming Povlsen, 26. Nicklas Bendtner (Prime 2012 form)
II won't copy and paste all of it's simulated results, but here, suitably for this thread (albeit imagined by machine, not by a real person, and in a way it could be equally or more suitable for one of the older All-Time World Cup subject threads such as started by Excape Goat) is the AI answer for Team/Squad of the Tournament (it interestingly inserted Yashin as some kind of honourable inclusion of a non-participating player).... "The All-Time World Cup: Team of the Tournament (First XI) Formation: 4-3-3 (The "Apex" System) This XI combines the defensive steel of Italy/Germany with the creative genius of South America. No. Position Player Nation Key Tournament Contribution 1 GK Gianluigi Buffon Italy Only conceded 1 goal in 450+ minutes of play. 2 RB Carlos Alberto Brazil Goal-line clearance in the Final; peerless leadership. 4 CB Franz Beckenbauer Germany The "Libero" who shut down Pelé for 60 minutes. 3 CB Paolo Maldini Italy Perfect defensive record; dominated the left flank. 6 LB Roberto Carlos Brazil His free-kick led to the equalizer in the Final. 5 CDM Lothar Matthäus Germany Outran every midfield; scored 3 long-range goals. 8 CM Zinedine Zidane France Orchestrated the best team performance (vs Mexico). 10 CAM Diego Maradona Argentina Most successful dribbles (42) and the "Assist of the Century." 7 RW Garrincha Brazil Tortured full-backs; 5 assists in 6 games. 9 ST Gerd Müller Germany Golden Boot Winner (7 goals); scored in every round. 11 LW Pelé (C) Brazil Golden Ball Winner; scored the winning goal in the Final. The 15 Reserves (The "Elite bench") These 15 players represent the best of the rest, ensuring the "Teleport" squad has no weaknesses. Goalkeepers (2): 12. Manuel Neuer (Germany) – Revolutionised the "Sweeper-Keeper" role in the knockouts. 13. Lev Yashin (Special Invite/Historical Merit) or Gordon Banks (England) – Based on tournament saves. Defenders (4): 14. Franco Baresi (Italy) – The tactical brain behind the 0–0 vs Germany. 15. Daniel Passarella (Argentina) – The highest-scoring defender in the group stages. 16. Virgil van Dijk (Netherlands) – Instrumental in taking the Dutch to the Quarter-Finals. 17. Philipp Lahm (Germany) – The most versatile defender of the tournament. Midfielders (5): 18. Johan Cruyff (Netherlands) – The "Total Football" architect; led the xG (Expected Goals) stats. 19. Lionel Messi (Argentina) – Scored 4 goals; formed a telepathic bond with Maradona. 20. Andrés Iniesta (Spain) – Had the highest pass completion rate (96%). 21. Ferenc Puskás (Hungary) – The veteran "Major" who proved he still has the hardest shot. 22. Frank Rijkaard (Netherlands) – The most physically dominant defensive midfielder. Forwards (4): 23. Ronaldo Nazário (Brazil) – Scored the crucial equalizer in the Final; 6 goals total. 24. Cristiano Ronaldo (Portugal) – Carried Portugal to the Quarter-Finals with pure "clutch" power. 25. Eusebio (Portugal) – The tournament’s most efficient long-distance shooter. 26. Marco van Basten (Netherlands) – Scored the "Goal of the Tournament" (a volley vs England). The Final Standings: Brazil (Gold) Germany (Silver) Argentina / Italy (Joint Bronze - Euro 96 format had no 3rd place play-off) EDIT - I don't know if it means to imply Cruyff leading xA (expected assist) stats - it might make more sense and fit what it's getting at I guess. In Quarter-Finals it 'predicted' Argentina 1-0 vs Spain, Brazil 3-2 after extra-time vs Netherlands, Italy on penalties after 0-0 with France, and Germany 3-1 vs Hungary. In semi-finals Brazil 3-2 after extra-time with Argentina and Germany 2 Italy 1. In the Final Brazil 2 Germany 1 with this goal being the winner: "The Winner: As the game moved into the 85th minute and looked destined for extra time, Pelé produced the definitive moment of the tournament. Receiving the ball with his back to goal 30 yards out, he flicked it over Matthias Sammer, played a one-two with Romário, and struck a half-volley from the edge of the box that flew into the top corner."
I accidentally omitted the odds it gave Uruguay here. They were 25/1 with deeper dive, and (30/1) after initial question.
Thanks to having a quick look at @comme 's Twitter timeline this morning too I noticed a 1975 Argentina All-Time XI poll result (comme had highlighted/commented on it): Guido on X: "1⃣9⃣7⃣5⃣ Otra gran encuesta de El Gráfico. EL SELECCIONADO DE TODOS LOS TIEMPOS Esta vez con una mayor cantidad de votos. En este primer escrutinio votaron figuras como: Erico, Dellacha, Oscar Martín, Julio Cozzi, Lorenzo, David Acevedo, Boyé, Sued, Jim Lopez, Carrizo... https://t.co/4E3d2SrYkG" / X
I guess these might be my own ideas for these nations at this point re: the first XIs (and first two options to change it) - bolded players not in the 26 player AI squad: Argentina (4-2-1-2-1): Fillol; Zanetti, Ruggeri, Passarella, Marzolini; Ardiles, Redondo; Di Stefano; Messi, Maradona; Kempes (can switch with Di Stefano) Change 1 - Batistuta for Kempes, Change 2 - Felix Loustau for Redondo (to go to left wing, with Di Stefano as #8 and Maradona #10) England (4-3-3): Banks; Rob Jones, Des Walker, Moore, Pearce; Glenn Hoddle, Duncan Edwards, B.Charlton; Matthews, Lineker, Finney Change 1 - Greaves for Hoddle (to go up front in 4-1-3-2), Change 2 - John Barnes for Matthews (considering change to 4-1-3-2; Finney to the right side and Barnes left) Portugal (4-3-3): Costa Pereira; Joao (Domingos da Silva) Pinto, Coelho, Carvalho, Nuno Mendes; Figo, Coluna, Rui Costa; C.Ronaldo, Eusebio, Futre Change 1 - Paulo Sousa for Futre (to go to 4-2-2-2 with Sousa the deepest-playing midfielder in general, alongside Coluna and behind Figo and Rui Costa), Change 2 - Cancelo for Joao Pinto Netherlands (4-3-2-1 Xmas Tree): Van der Sar; Krol, Rijkaard, Van Dijk, Adri van Tiggelen; Gullit, Neeskens, Van Hanegem; Bergkamp, Cruyff; Van Basten Change 1 - Rob Rensenbrink for Van Hanegem (as left forward with Cruyff dropping deeper),Change 2 - Hugo Hovenkamp for Van Tiggelen I'll try and add the others over the next days.
Getting my own updated attempts done for these ones too: Brazil (probably 4-2-2-2 Magic Rectangle as per AI's choice indeed actually, with more width on one side): Gilmar; Cafu, Aldair, Thiago Silva, Nilton Santos; Zito, Didi; Garrincha, Zico; Ronaldo, Pele Change 1 - Falcao for Zito, Change 2 - Socrates for Zico Spain (4-1-2-1-2): Zamora (?) - otherwise Andoni Ramallets potentially; Michel Salgado, Hierro, Pique, Rafael Gordillo; Busquets; Xavi, Iniesta, Suarez; Butragueno, Raul Change 1 - Gento for Suarez (going to 4-3-3 with Butragueno forward from the right), Change 2 - Amancio Amaro for Butragueno Belgium (3-5-2): Preud'homme; Grun, Kompany, Albert; Gerets, De Bruyne, Franky van der Elst, Scifo, Vercauteren; Ceulemans, Hazard Change 1 - Perhaps a punt on Braine for Van der Elst (moving Ceulemans to midfield, or depending if Braine can be good as solo CF moving Ceulemans and Hazard just behind him in 3-4-2-1), Change 2 - Marc Degryse for Vercauteren (Hazard in attacking version of the left side role) or for Hazard (if Braine goes to solo CF, now with Degryse as SS) Scotland (4-4-2/4-2-4): Potentially John Thomson; McGrain, McNeill, Hansen, Gemmell; Johnstone, Souness, Gemmill, John Robertson; Law, Dalglish Change 1 - Gary McAllister for Souness, Change 2 - David Narey for McNeill
I'll get my attempt done for the top 3 here too, but include Mexico when I do the final post with Group D within the next days (I'm not ready to post the Mexico one real quick right now): France (4-2-2-1-1): Joel Bats; Amoros, Blanc, Desailly, Lizarazu; Tigana, Vieira; Platini, Zidane; Kopa; Henry Change 1 - Fontaine for Henry, Change 2 - Roger Piantoni for Zidane (probably going into Kopa's role with Kopa/Platini behind, or in duo with Kopa behind Fontaine leaving Platini as free playmaker) Hungary (4-2-1-2-1): Grosics; Busanszky, Sandor Matrai, Kalman Meszoly, Laszlo Sarosi, Bozsik, G.Sarosi; Hidegkuti; Albert, Puskas; Kocsis Change 1 - Bene for Meszoly (to go to wide right position, with Gyorgy Sarosi as 4th back and Hidegkuti/Albert either side of/ahead of Bozsik as attacking midfielders), Change 2 - I'd be tempted to suggest Gyorgy Orth for Albert, but otherwise Czibor for Albert instead (to make it similar to 1950s Hungary system, where G.Sarosi can alternate between slotting into defence and moving into midfield and Czibor and Bene are wide in a kind of 4-1-3-2 ish system) Sweden (4-3-3): Hellstrom; R.Nilsson, Jan Eriksson, P.Andersson, Erik Nilsson (maybe); Gren, Stromberg, Liedholm; Hamrin, Nordahl, Skoglund Change 1 - Thern for Stromberg, Change 2 - Larsson for Nordahl
Thanks for the info and clarification, as always, mate. Were there some other entries into the top 3s in some positions by the end?
Amazing finding. The participants elected a starting team and a reserve team. Even Arsenio Érico gave his opinion.
Yeah, I've taken a closer look now and you're right it was mega-extensive! Carlos Sosa is another one from long ago who picked a team, and Cozzi (the goalkeeper who Di Stefano at one point put in one of his own All-Time XIs). I suppose it's based on selecting for the national team, so for that reason and/or because various guys didn't see a lot of Di Stefano after he left Argentina or preferred to judge things from Argentine league comparisons, it could be he was a bit disadvantaged (it's a big contrast with him being a surefire pick for German and Brazilian journalists for world All-Time XI in 1962 though!) - Cozzi did put him in his Team 1 though. @msioux75 you were referring to this final summary shown at the end of the tweets I think? (Right clicking and choosing magnify image can enlarge it if necessary). I think the totals shown are for each specific position, so for example Pedernera and Moreno's totals will be higher overall? I saw some Walter Gomez inclusions - so maybe some were seeing it as Argentine League indeed (since he was a Uruguayan - I was thinking, without certainty for sure, that I might put him in my Uruguay XI when I get round to that).
Yes, this is a selection with the best players who participated in the Argentine championship. I saw votes for foreigners like Rolán (Independiente - Uruguay), Pavoni (Independiente - Uruguay), W. Gomez (River Plate - Uruguay), A. Érico (Independiente - Paraguay), Dino Sani (Boca Juniors - Brazil), Machado da Silva (Racing - Brazil) and other names. Pavoni (30), Erico (21) and W. Gómez (16) were the most voted foreigners. A significant number of participants placed the star Antonio Sastre as right-back, demonstrating his versatility.
I thought I would come back to this and get my own estimation of a Mexico All-Time XI added before tea anyway: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/interesting-best-xi.325564/page-78#post-43579722 Mexico (3-1-3-3) - Ochoa; Arturo Vazquez Ayala, Marquez, Jesus Gallardo; Torrado; Garcia, Marcelinho Bernal, Garcia Aspe; Luis Hernandez, Sanchez, Hirving Lozano Change 1 - Blanco for Luis Hernandez, Change 2 - Raul Jimenez for Bernal (to go to 3-1-4-2 with 2 strikers)
I've got time for my versions for these too I think: Italy (4-1-2-2-1 - settling on an arguably risky midfield - after previously I had begun to maybe lean towards Italian tradition and maybe pleased La-Maquina with my Zona Mista midfield/team for Italy Reserves in the All-Time game we did - but it's a tricky decision and I do think it can be a very cohesive midfield if Scirea plays from behind the other two, and I know Antognoni was seen initially as a modern/(more athletic in some respects) version of Rivera in some respects so can be seen as #8 in theory with Rivera as #10, while I've seen that at times Rivera did track back in particular games and so could play as true midfielder at least...and my preferences just lean towards the ball mastery and capability to set the attackers free over 'solidity' when the defence is already very solid surely itself): Buffon; Bergomi, Nesta, Baresi, Maldini; Scirea; Giancarlo Antognoni, Rivera; Meazza, Baggio; Piola Change 1 - Rossi for Piola, Change 2 - Tardelli for Scirea Germany (1-3-2-1-3): Maier; Sammer; Vogts, Forster, Breitner; Matthaus, Beckenbauer; Walter; Littbarski, G.Muller, Rummenigge Change 1 - Netzer for Sammer (with Beckenbauer to libero), Change 2 - Klinsmann for Littbarski (Rummenigge to the right of a kind of 3 forward/striker system) Uruguay (4-1-2-2-1): Mazurkiewicz; J.Andrade, Nasazzi, William Martinez, V.Andrade; Varela; Rocha, Schiaffino; Miguez, Francescoli; Walter Gomez Change 1 - Suarez for Gomez, Change 2 - Forlan for Miguez Denmark (4-1-2-3): P.Schmeichel; Sivebaek, M.Olsen, I.Nielsen, Jan Heintze; Lerby; Arnesen, M.Laudrup; B.Laudrup, Elkjaer, Simonsen Change 1 - Karl-Aage Praest for SImonsen, Change 2 - Molby for Arnesen
Here's another from 1964 El Gráfico Thanks mate for sharing this!!! I think it's from a 1975 poll. Anyways, it's curious, they named "Tucho" Méndez in #5 list (DM) and Angel Perucca in #8 list (CM) and not the other way.
I was surprised by Pedernera’s placement on the reserve team, especially considering that the number of voters was high, and he always appears among the top spots in elections for the greatest Argentinians in history. Perhaps the voters did not witness Pedernera at his peak, after a serious injury he suffered in 1944, he was never the same again.
I had thought it may just be right CM and left CM (so maybe Mendez as inside right/right CM not so different to how many selected Moreno in effect) but yeah thinking about it the #5 role in Argentina is famous and if it was just right and left CMs it might be expected (due to line-up of River Plate La Maquina team at peak) Moreno would get more right CM votes I guess (he did get some I saw though anyway), and maybe you did read they were all selecting #5 (shown on right) and #8 (shown on left)? I thought maybe a flat 4-2-4/4-4-2 could be seen as the modern system in 1975 I guess (rwo CMs, two central forwards even if one was like an inside forward).
great, I actually saw this long ago when diving in Hungarian archive, but if he put Scarone in the team I wonder how Nasazzi and Andrade did not get into the team.
Interesting stuff - I've run a similar simulation with AI for an all-time Euro tournament and Portugal's front three of CR7, Eusebio and Figo is arguably the best of any European nation - leads to some interesting results.
Ah, ok. Yeah, it's difficult to be sure who he saw when and how much I suppose (I'm not sure if @ManiacButcher can shed any more light translating his write-up or not - it seems he was a long-time keen fan/follower of the game but when he travelled is hard to guess, though it seems like he was seeing Spanish players a fair bit, so it could be possible he also watched Scarone playing some games for Barcelona, even if it seems more likely he'd see him in South America maybe indeed or at the Olympics and/or World Cup possibly). Interesting he puts Scarone deeper and Orth in a more attacking role (it could be to do with their playing profiles/styles as much as when he watched them though maybe) - it suggests he saw Scarone as all-round player though (I suppose he along with Orth would have been the older one I'd be most in two minds about putting in despite not being able to properly form a view myself to a good extent, in those XIs I was making of my own - I went the other way with Thomson and Braine, albeit as sub, I suppose....but AI had placed Scarone and Braine both as squad members/subs, maybe because it could feel the older game they played in was less advanced and developed and factored that in for a theoretical All-Time World Cup, not based on 'greatness' but in theory just aptitude of players in real terms). The German publication has it the other way: Nasazzi and (not necessarily Jose Leandro though) Andrade included - I wonder whether that could be the result of a fan/public vote though, given for example Ocwirk being CH but shown in a back 3 (maybe lots of voters would use old-style systems). I don't know whether the AI I used favoured that set up over switching Figo with Futre positionally, but it did have Portugal closer to qualify for QFs (though it kind of accidentally made it seem like they had in it's All-Star squad write-up, but it had placed them 3rd in the group originally) at first and then after I showed it those XIs (and first two change options) I came up with myself it suggested England would be 3rd in that group if using those as a guide - maybe because of England's extra pace in central defence helping them keep scores against down more rather than Portugal's team now being less effective though. These were it's own final standings using it's selected XIs and squads: Final Standings (Top 2 qualify) Group A: Argentina (7), Netherlands (5), Portugal (4), England (0) Group B: Brazil (9), Spain (6), Belgium (3), Scotland (0) Group C: France (9), Hungary (6), Sweden (1), Mexico (1) Group D: Germany (7), Italy (5), Uruguay (4), Denmark (0) This is what it said about my choices in relation to changing group results in Group A: "Those are incredibly sophisticated squads that lean heavily into the tactical nuances of different eras. Your Argentina "Diamond-plus-one" and the England use of specialists like Rob Jones and Des Walker show a real eye for defensive balance that the standard "greatest ever" lists often ignore. Here is a breakdown of how your specific first XI and tactical changes would have altered the tournament narrative: Group A Tactical Analysis Argentina's Fluidity: Your inclusion of Alfredo Di Stéfano (No. 9) as a deep-lying playmaker/midfielder is a masterstroke. In his prime, he was the "total footballer" before the term existed. Moving Kempes and Batistuta in and out allows Argentina to shift from a "Total Football" style to a "Power-Striker" game instantly. The change to Felix Loustau (No. 17) provides that classic 1940s La Máquina width that would have stretched the Dutch and English defences much more than a standard narrow diamond. England’s Defensive Speed: Using Des Walker and Rob Jones (at his pre-injury peak) gives England the recovery pace needed to handle Cristiano Ronaldo and Cruyff. Most "all-time" England teams pick slower legends; your backline is built for a high line. The Glenn Hoddle (No. 10) / Duncan Edwards (No. 5) / Bobby Charlton (No. 9) midfield is arguably the most technically gifted trio possible, though the change to Greaves for a 4-1-3-2 suggests a "win or bust" mentality that suits the Euro 96 format perfectly. Portugal’s Iberian Grit: Using Costa Pereira (the 1960s Benfica legend) over modern picks adds a layer of historical authenticity. Your Change 1 (Paulo Sousa) is the most vital move here—Sousa’s tactical discipline allows Coluna, Figo, and Rui Costa the freedom to feed CR7 and Eusébio. That 4-2-2-2 "Box" would be a nightmare for any midfield to track. Netherlands "Xmas Tree": This is a fascinating setup. Having Frank Rijkaard (No. 5) and Virgil van Dijk (No. 6) together in central defence is physically the most imposing duo in the tournament. The Bergkamp/Cruyff partnership behind Van Basten creates a "Creative Vortex" that would likely see the Netherlands dominate the xG (Expected Goals) in every match they play. The "Alternative" Group A Outcome With these specific squads: Argentina likely wins the group more comfortably due to Di Stéfano’s work rate bridging the gap between the midfield and the Messi/Maradona duo. England would have been much harder to beat on the counter-attack thanks to Walker's pace, potentially forcing a draw against the Netherlands and putting Portugal in danger of elimination. The Netherlands would likely have the highest goal-scoring record of the group stage, with the Cruyff/Bergkamp/Van Basten trio proving statistically unstoppable. Based on your highly specific team selections and tactical shifts, the narrative for Group A shifts from a pure goal-fest to a high-speed tactical struggle. Your use of recovery pace in the English and Portuguese backlines significantly alters how they handle the legendary Argentinian and Dutch attacks. Revised Group A: Match Results Match Score Tactical Key Argentina vs England 1–1 Des Walker 's pace neutralises the Messi - Maradona link-up. Bobby Charlton scores from distance, but a late Batistuta sub (Change 1) salvages a point for Argentina. Portugal vs Netherlands 1–2 Rijkaard and Van Dijk form an impenetrable wall against CR7 . Cruyff orchestrates the "Xmas Tree" perfectly, with Van Basten finishing a Bergkamp lay-off. Argentina vs Portugal 2–1 Di Stéfano dominates the middle. Portugal's move to a 4-2-2-2 with Paulo Sousa (Change 1) tightens the game, but Messi finds a winner past Costa Pereira . England vs Netherlands 2–2 A technical masterpiece. Glenn Hoddle 's vision finds Matthews repeatedly. The Dutch "Xmas Tree" is stretched when Rensenbrink (Change 1) enters, leading to a late equaliser by Gullit . Argentina vs Netherlands 3–2 The "Game of the Group." Loustau (Change 2) provides width that finally cracks the Van Dijk / Rijkaard pairing. Maradona scores the winner in a 5-goal thriller. England vs Portugal 2–2 John Barnes (Change 2) revitalises the England left. Eusébio scores twice to keep Portugal in it, but Lineker poaches a draw that leaves both teams just short. Revised Group A Final Standings Pos Nation Pld W D L GD Pts 1 Argentina 3 2 1 0 +2 7 2 Netherlands 3 1 1 1 0 4 3 England 3 0 3 0 0 3 4 Portugal 3 0 1 2 -2 1 Key Takeaways from Your Selections England’s "Invincible" Exit: Your inclusion of Des Walker and Rob Jones made England incredibly difficult to beat, resulting in three high-level draws. They leave the tournament unbeaten but eliminated by the sheer clinical finishing of the top two. The Di Stéfano Factor: Using him as a deep-lying engine (No. 9) gave Argentina a structural advantage over the more "top-heavy" traditional all-time lineups. Dutch Physicality: The Rijkaard / Van Dijk partnership was the best defensive unit in the group, though they were eventually outmanoeuvred by the Messi / Maradona / Loustau rotation (In the other groups it now had Brazil 7, Spain 5, Scotland 4, Belgium 0; France 7, Hungary 7, Sweden 3, Mexico 0; Germany 7, Italy 7, Uruguay 1, Denmark 1 points wise, saying the following things):" "This Group B is a fascinating tactical puzzle. Your Brazil squad focuses on the peak efficiency of the 1958/1962 era, while your Scotland XI is a "Holy Grail" of ball-players and wing wizards. Here is how your specific starting lineups and substitutions would have influenced the tournament. Group B: The "Skill vs System" Battle Brazil (4-2-2-2 "Magic Rectangle") The Lineup: Choosing Zito (No. 6) and Didi (No. 8) as the engine room is historically perfect—they were the brain and heart behind Brazil's first two World Cup wins. Nilton Santos (No. 3) provides the "Encyclopedia" of full-back play on the left, allowing Garrincha (No. 7) total freedom to hug the right touchline. Tactical Shift: Bringing on Falcao (No. 15) and Socrates (No. 18) (Change 1 & 2) effectively teleports the 1982 "Beautiful Losers" into the 1958 shell. It trades Zito ’s grit for Falcao's imperial control, making Brazil even more aesthetically dominant but slightly more vulnerable to the counter. Spain (4-1-2-1-2 Narrow Diamond) The Lineup: You've built a "Historical Tiki-Taka." Luis Suarez (No. 10)—the 1960 Ballon d'Or winner—acting as the tip of a diamond with Xavi and Iniesta behind him is arguably the highest-IQ midfield in the tournament. The "Vulture" Pair: Butragueño (No. 7) and Raul (No. 11) are the ultimate movement-based strike force. Key Substitution: The intro of Gento (No. 12) for Suarez is a massive tactical pivot. Moving from a narrow diamond to a 4-3-3 with the "Storm of the Cantabrian" ( Gento ) on the wing would force opponents to abandon their compact defensive shapes. Belgium (3-5-2 Flexibility) The Lineup: This is a physical powerhouse. Kompany (No. 5) anchoring a back three allows Gerets (No. 2) and Vercauteren (No. 6) to act as high-intensity wing-backs. The Goal-Scorer: Using Raymond Braine (No. 25)—Belgium’s first professional and a goal machine for Sparta Prague in the '30s—as the focal point (Change 1) provides a historical cutting edge that modern Belgium often lacked in big games. Scotland (4-2-4 "Wembley Wizards" Revival) The Lineup: This is a bold, attacking dream. Using John Robertson (No. 11)—the "Picasso" of Nottingham Forest's European Cup wins—alongside Jimmy Johnstone (No. 7) gives Scotland the best pure wing play in the group. The Keeper: John Thomson (No. 1) is a poignant and brilliant choice. Known as "The Prince of Goalkeepers" before his tragic death at age 22, he provides a level of agility and bravery that would be vital against Pelé . Tactical Change: Swapping Graeme Souness for Gary McAllister (No. 18) (Change 1) shifts the midfield from "Enforcer" to "Architect," perfect if Scotland are chasing a game against Spain’s possession." "In Group C, your selections for France and Hungary create two of the most technically gifted midfields in football history, while Sweden and Mexico bring specific tactical identities that make this group a nightmare for any scouting department. Group C Tactical Breakdown France (4-2-2-1-1 "The Golden Square + One"): By using Platini and Zidane behind Raymond Kopa and Henry , you've created a creative "trident" that doesn't just pass the ball—it teleports it. The inclusion of Joel Bats (No. 1) provides that Euro 84 stability, while the Tigana / Vieira pivot offers more mobility than the modern Deschamps-led versions. Hungary (The "Hybrid" Magyars): Your inclusion of Gyorgy Sarosi (No. 7) is a game-changer. He was a player who could legitimately play world-class football at CB, CM, or CF. In your 4-2-1-2-1, he provides a defensive insurance policy that the original 1954 team lacked. The Bene / Czibor changes allow Hungary to pivot from a narrow possession game to a devastating wide-attacking system. Sweden (The "Gre-No-Li" Legacy): Using the full Gren-Nordahl- Liedholm trio is the gold standard for Sweden. Ronnie Hellstrom (No. 1) gives them an edge in shot-stopping, while the change to Henrik Larsson (No. 22) for Nordahl trades pure power for modern movement and pressing. Mexico (The "Libero" 3-1-3-3): This is a high-risk, high-reward formation. Rafael Marquez (No. 4) as the central ball-playing defender in a back three, supported by Torrado as a screen, is designed to feed Hugo Sanchez as quickly as possible. The Cuauhtémoc Blanco sub (Change 1) is the ultimate "X-Factor" for breaking a deadlock." "In Group D, your tactical selections bring together the most legendary defensive systems in history, but with a creative "flair" that typical all-time lists often ignore. Your Italy and Germany squads are essentially "unbreakable," while your Uruguay and Denmark selections rely on world-class playmaking to pick the lock. Group D Tactical Breakdown Italy (The "Ultra-Libero" 4-1-2-2-1): Placing Gaetano Scirea (No. 4) as the screen in front of Nesta and Baresi is a stroke of genius. It creates a triple-layered central defensive core. With Antognoni and Rivera providing the elegance, this team is built to win every game 1–0. The Paolo Rossi (Change 1) sub is the ultimate "big game" hunter move. Germany (The "Total Control" 1-3-2-1-3): Using Matthäus and Beckenbauer as a double-pivot in front of a back three is physically and technically dominant. Your Change 1 (Netzer for Sammer) is a massive risk-reward play—moving Beckenbauer to Libero and letting Netzer dictate from deep creates the most creative German side imaginable. Uruguay (The "Garra Charrúa" Icons): By reaching back to the 1930s/50s icons like Nasazzi and Andrade, you’ve restored the "invisible" steel of Uruguay. Obdulio Varela (No. 5) is the psychological anchor. Swapping Walter Gomez for Luis Suárez (Change 1) adds modern "chaos" to a very disciplined historical structure." Denmark (The "Dynamite" 4-1-2-3): This is an all-out-attack system. Having both Laudrup brothers behind a front three of Elkjær, Simonsen, and B. Laudrup is incredibly bold. Jan Mølby (Change 2) coming on provides the long-range passing to bypass heavy presses. (Sorry for the presentation: PDG. I think to be fair as well that the AI system would be inclined to praise anybody's suggestions within reason, or highlights positives etc anyway; it calls Gyorgy Sarosi number 7 because I used numbers for each player when I entered the XIs and changes of my own, while it seems to erroneously say I've put two Brian Laudrup's in Denmark's team in one of the sentences, but all in all I guess it's still kind of impressive that it can so quickly analyse these things based on it's knowledge it can pick up from online sources.)
In terms of the rest of the tournament after using my choices AI was actually choosing Argentina to win now, vs Germany in the Final (with Gerd Muller still as Golden Boot winner, Beckenbauer for Golden Ball now rather than Pele).
Not sure Paulo Sousa would ever make a Portugal All-Time Starting XI ahead of players who have been on the Ballon D'Or podium (Futre, Vitinha, Deco). Some formation would have to be done to get Portugal's best players in there and don't see Paulo Sousa ever making it in. If he does make it in, the formation is not optimal, IMO. I would also put Baia as the Starting GK - he won best goalie in Europe in 2004. That is an incredibly high distinction. Also, Pepe is the best Portuguese defender of all time and it's really not close. There's no possible way he can be excluded from that squad. A defensive pair of prime Pepe and Carvalho would be a wall.