As for Zico, I think he is difficult to rate because his technicality is so superlative, and I do not know how it was rewarded back then. For me, he certainly lacked the kind of bulk and ability to sort of power through physical challenges that Diego Maradona seemed to have. Given his attributes, it seems tempting to surround him with a setting that rewards his technicality much more, but he must have had his downfalls also, maybe his lack of strength. Maybe if he was injected with growth hormones non-stop like Lionel Messi, he might have had a stronger core, instead of having the kind of core strength more reminiscent of Bojan Krkic. However, that is the land of sheer speculation. I think he cannot just be lamented for being underrated. Maybe he is underrated as a technical virtuoso who may have been better suited under different environments, but as a footballer of his era, maybe it is correct to rate him under other superlative creatives of his time. I do not know, but it seems to be difficult to judge him solely off his footage without a detailed understanding of his surrounding circumstances, and his interaction with it.
The main problem in these current Ranking lists most recently +++ They don't clearly show the criteria used to rank them in order from 1 to 50 What weighed much more within this were the collective titles or the individual performances throughout their entire career performances in Big Finals in Big matches in decisive Matches or only Eye Test Ronaldinho with individual numbers 816 Matches 299 goals 203 Assists (Non-Opta) also + 28 penalties suffered won % + and the him performances in Big Matches are horrible at averages ......... only ... 0, 46 % or ... 0, 52 % .... at maximum nor equally Top-50 He is not let alone Top-5 these guys get more players recent and forget the players of the past What were the main criteria used to classify? sounds for me ... that was only Eye Test .. "!
Gullit better than Bergkamp easily ! Gullit had a great first touch skills it was similar to Pelé, Ronaldinho Gaucho and Maradona They made the first touch with their chest and Edson Arantes Pelé ..Gullit They made the first touch with both feet. They stopped in the mid-air due to the excellent Jumping Reach to control the ball with the chest in the air Pelé did this better than Gullit. But Gullit did it too, and Zidane. a few times also Technique == 95 == PES !
Good point/observations about chest control, true. That looks a pretty good attempt for the PES profile (with extreme high jumping/heading values!) and yeah it gives him 95 for shooting technique and general technique too I see. Maybe mentality could go higher (for belief/resilience etc; I know sometimes he could be a bit argumentative or pessimistic though so maybe that has been considered)? I suppose for dribble speed it depends how it's looked at exactly - he could run with the ball with very good momentum (and maybe nearing his top speed) without kicking it far ahead of himself, but maybe they were really considering more the 'close control dribbling', also with direction changes etc. Maybe acceleration is hard to decide on - I know he was quite famed for a 'second acceleration' when already in running motion, but on the other hand was his immediate increase in speed from standing still a bit less significant? Anyway overall I'm not trying to downplay his technique as a good asset (especially when in good fitness and on his best days), and it's true he could take the ball very well and control it very efficiently first time etc. Re: Van Basten/Bergkamp I had them in an attempt at 'Technical XI' and reserve XI on the best technique thread (realistic formations, but picking with emphasis on the technical qualities and nothing else), as follows (so it shows that suggesting them over Gullit for technique and/or specifically close skills and feel for the ball is not a slight on Gullit so much as recognition of their abilities in this respect): Gilmar (Brazil); Leandro (Brazil), Franz Beckenbauer (Germany), Bobby Moore (England), Frank de Boer (Netherlands); Paulo Roberto Falcao (Brazil), Osvaldo Ardiles (Argentina), Zinedine Zidane (France); Zico (Brazil), Diego Maradona (Argentina); Marco van Basten (Netherlands) Edwin van Der Sar (Netherlands); Carlos Alberto (Brazil), Gaetano Scirea (Italy), Ricardo Carvalho (Portugal), Maxime Bossis (France); Glenn Hoddle (England), Patrick Vieira (France), Fernando Redondo (Argentina); Dennis Bergkamp (Netherlands), Ronaldinho (Brazil); Romario (Brazil) I guess, while going with kind of Xmas Tree systems I was putting players in pretty much their optimum and/or normal roles though, and I think to be fair a top-form Gullit might have an argument as libero/sweeper vs Scirea for such an XI and/or as midfielder vs Vieira....
I realized this watching several so many many times in a row the entire matches from Euro-Cup 1988 against England, Republic of Ireland, West Germany, and USSR twice, the first game and the second game, the final already Gullit practically won 90% of the aerial duels in Euro 1988. Gullit played incredibly well in that Euro... Gullit vs Henry ........ at Headers won % ......... Gullit ...... 20 per game at averages Off and Def Headers Won %.... vs Henry same Giant also like Gullit .... Henry had ..only 2 ... per game .......of being pretty Taller also Gullit stopped in the air like Michael Jordan Gullit weaker Points : he lacked a little more aggression and verticality to attack the final third of the field more. finishing skills the accuracy % " Shot accuracy % " abit on this competition but for me, Gullit had an absolutely incredible Euro 1988. in the same style of Franz Beckenbauer or Mario Zagallo in the 1958 and 1962 World Cups. Total footballers ...and Six yards To Six Yards players approach mentality on the pitch . so he, Gullit, gave several so many many first touches skills with the chest using his incredible Jumping Reach and stopped in the air also .. "!
Technical Team eleven Of all time GK - Sepp Maier or Chilavert or Rogerio Ceni or Dino Zoff or Michel Preud'homme RB- Carlos Alberto Torres or Lilian Thuram or Neeskens Johan CD- Franz Beckenbauer or Bob Moore or Scirea ......or Franco Baresi or Ruud Krol LB- Paul Breitner or M. Amoros or Cabrini ....or Brehme Andreas or Junior DM - Paulo Roberto Falcão or Didi Folha Seca or José Manuel Moreno ARG .. or Lothar Matthaus ... or Zito ....... or .....Frank Rijkaard or ...Davids ...or Claude Makelele or Vieira Patrick or ..Obdulio Varela or .. József Bozsik wg- Ruud Gullit or Jairzinho or Mané Garrincha or Julinho Botelho or Sir Stanley Matthews or .....Eulógio Martínez..... or Kopa OH- Don Alfredo Di Stefano ........ or Zidane ... or .............. Edson Arantes Pelé OH - Platini ....or Zico ...........or Maradona ........ or Ferenc Puskas wg - ......... C. Ronaldo ........ Dzajic ..... Gento ....... .. Czibor .... Edu ...... Joaozinho ....or ... Júlio César "Uri Geller" CF - Lionel Messi ...... Gerd Muller ........ Van Basten ....... Romario ...Eusebio ...or Ronaldo Nazario de Lima CF - Muller ........... Antonio Careca .............
Yes, it's true that he could contribute in many aspects even when in sub-optimal form. He did have some moments of quality and decisiveness as attacking player in those Euro finals too of course though still, scoring with the header in the final, or with the outside of the boot ball to Van Basten before the first goal vs England, for example.
Interesting to see your longer list of options mate: some things I would be inclined to agree on (or be close to it - it doesn't mean I'd change my own XIs necessarily) like perhaps Zito as an option among players who would classify as more DM than CM potentially (I don't really know whether he would have great technical shooting for example, but his ball handling qualities seem very good...and that would be somewhat similar for Ardiles I already named, even if he did score a few nice goals), or Eulogio Martinez (even if I didn't see a lot of him) or Neeskens as right back (because sometimes he did play in that position). I would probably need a deeper think about options for wing positions since I used Xmas Tree, and there are some choices I wouldn't overall agree with (Thuram for example, even if he was 'ok' on the ball (for example among right backs I'd tend to think of another Brazilian Nelinho much sooner though); perhaps even Baresi even if I think overall he was one of the best CBs/sweepers (but technically better than for example Belodedici I'm not really sure), perhaps Makelele too, while Moreno I'd just be very unsure of both for technique in game situations and for potential suitability as DM, because we haven't got access to enough good game footage....). Maybe I don't really think Maier for GK as someone who particularly stands out for catching/handling/kicking/saving techniques, although I do think for effectiveness he seems to have been very good at his best.
I probably also forgot to indicate agreement on Bozsik in the post I just made haha! (and Didi, although I think it's more of a stretch to put him as solo DM/midfield anchor player).
If I try a 3rd and 4th Technical XI, and switch to 4-2-3-1, perhaps I go with these: Lev Yashin (USSR); Nelinho (Brazil), Ruud Gullit (Netherlands), Philippe Albert (Belgium), Rafael Gordillo (Spain); Jozsef Bozsik (Hungary), Didi (Brazil); Lionel Messi (Argentina), Michael Laudrup (Denmark), George Best (N.Ireland); Pele (Brazil) Pat Jennings (N.Ireland); Dan Petrescu (Romania), Miodrag Belodedici (Romania), Gerard Pique (Spain), Marcelo (Brazil); Zito (Brazil), Andrea Pirlo (Italy); Luis Figo (Portugal), Roberto Baggio (Italy), Johan Cruyff (Netherlands); Ronaldo Nazario (Brazil) I know Pele was more number 10 than number 9 though generally of course.
Potential other options for Belodedici's position (maybe it's the one I'm least decided on, but yeah I think Belodedici was very neat and assured in possession of the ball generally, and had a good reliable pass on both sides for example too): Matthias Sammer, Laurent Blanc, Fernando Hierro, Klaus Augentahler (but I definitely don't suggest Baresi didn't have good technique I should clarify after my earlier post; certainly good enough when running with the ball to keep it under control and with the capability to play some very good passes over some distance too). In theory, if I had gone with more of a midfielder than forward for number 10 position (although then switching role with Cruyff is less feasible I'd say, in a theoretical real XI) then a different Red Star Belgrade player could have been in though (which would be Dragan Stojkovic, for Baggio).
on Sepp Maier Watching several so many many matches entire of him he played as a Sweeper Goalkeeper already...in that age he has plays from him at dribbling skills versus the opposing team........... really pretty cool at all ... like Rene Higuita But in a smarter, smooth and less risky way to do this my friend . "!
Ok cool: I hadn't really noticed it, but I know you watch a lot of older games. It is kind of surprising that he would/could dribble with the ball, but I trust you! I think in general his competence in goalkeeping was above what might be expected at first glance so maybe it is the same with dribbling/being calm with the ball on the ground etc! I think he seemed a bit more nimble as a young-ish player from what I noticed although he reached his peak (of fame anyway) later, in mid 70s. Anyway, I don't mean to criticise any of your options; I guess I was only giving my perspective of where I saw things more the same and also where I didn't....but I know in general you know a lot of players and notice many things from old games of course (and no two fans will ever have exactly the same choices - for example I wouldn't have come up with the same list of 10 top passers as the video maker below, even if I had stuck to post-2000 players I guess, but I still have to say he did a very good job with the video and in a category like passing especially we will be talking about fine margins, even if obviously as you always say watching full games is best, and for general passing, especially if not actually converted to assists, modern players have an advantage in footage available, even if there can still be good amounts of it for players such as Michael Laudrup, or here and there some videos that show pretty well the passing abilities of a Valderrama as another example from 80s/90s- see second video....)
A best XI about the players from the FC NANTES SCHOOL : ---------------------------Landreau--------------------- Karembeu----Desailly---Bossis---Tusseau ---------------Deschamps---Toulalan------------ --Payet----------------J. Touré-----------Amisse-- ------------------------------Loko----------------------------- From this (French) website : https://onze-de-legende.com/joueurs-formes-au-fc-nantes/ First the list and the 11 is thereafter. Not much to say about their choices : Bibard (DF, RB), Blanchet and Baronchelli (RW's) are the strongest alternatives imo (or Loko there...). Also Pécout and Ouédec at CF (but yes, Loko, D1 top-scorer, better career overall) and Pedros plus Monterrubio plus M. Vahirua on the left (but yes, Amisse). Others were real good too, if not excellent like Sahnoun at midfield too as a strong contender. Stéphane Ziani... Very good website which is mainly about best XI's but not only (and easily translatable with your browser tool). They have no puzzling choices that would traduce a lack of knowledge or lack of sensitivity in fooball history. Even if we can't agree with everything, their choices are perfectly understandable, most of all since they do a short (but good) commentary by player. By the way, for Payet in this Nantes school 11, they say : "[...] Through his successive stints in Ligue 1 (Nantes, Saint-Étienne, Lille, Marseille), the attacking midfielder established himself as a reliable player in the league. His brief spell in the Premier League was also a resounding success. With the French national team, Payet shone at Euro 2016 (3 goals, 2 assists), even if his tackle on Cristiano Ronaldo certainly changed the course of the final." PS : It's not all the clubs, French or abroad, nor all the NT's as of now (complete list in the right column of the page plus above).
Best Brazilian players by position of the 1940s, according to the São Paulo newspaper "Mundo Esportivo". -------------- Oberdan --- Domingos - Junqueira --- Bauer - Brandão - Jaime --------- Zizinho - Jair Luizinho - Leônidas - Ademir
Apparently Charlton's XI from an earlier book - Bobby Charlton's Book of Soccer (doesn't consider Man United players that time): Bert Trautmann, Djalma Santos, John Charles, Nilton Santos; Jozsef Bozsik, Dave Mackay; Raymond Kopa, Dragoslav Sekularac; Julinho, Alfredo Di Stefano, Francisco Gento Sir Bobby Charlton picked his World XI in 1960. We found it – and here it is - The Athletic
To add the other Charlton selections from later, so they are all in the same place (I might have put them on the thread already though before!) Sir Bobby Charlton picks his All Time Football World XI Gordon Banks, Carlos Alberto, Bobby Moore, Franz Beckenbauer, Duncan Edwards; Johan Cruyff,Alfredo Di Stefano, Michel Platini, Ferenc Puskas; 2 from Pele, Diego Maradona, George Best (subs: Schmeichel, Charles, Van Basten, Garrincha, Eusebio, Law) Bobby Charlton: Perfect XI | FourFourTwo Gordon Banks; Djalma Santos, Bobby Moore, Franz Beckenbauer, Silvio Marzolini; Michel Platini, Alfredo Di Stefano, Duncan Edwards, Johan Cruyff; Pele, Diego Maradona (subs: Schmeichel, Charles, Roy Keane, Gento, Puskas) Reminder of his XI for British league players only (from the book I bought about XIs of FWA Player of the Year award winners): "Bobby Charlton XI - Gordon Banks; Danny McGrain, John Charles, Bobby Moore, Ray Wilson; Danny Blanchflower, Duncan Edwards, Johnny Haynes, Jim Baxter; George Best, Denis Law (also mentioned were Stanley Matthews, Tom Finney, Billy Wright, Jimmy Johnstone, Bobby Lennox, John White, Dave Mackay, Ryan Giggs)"