MAGAZINE 100TH LEAGUE SPECIAL DERBY SPURS VS ARSENAL 1987 BILL NICHOLSON SPURS GREATEST XI BERTIE MEE ARSENAL GREATEST XI
I don't recall off the top of my head if I (or anyone) posted John Robertson's 'One2Eleven' on the thread before, but see this post to find it, and also for his All-Time British and World XIs as of somewhere between 1980 and 1982 (I can't be sure which Match magazine the interview is taken from) which were as follows: British: Peter Shilton; Danny McGrain, Roy McFarland, Dave Mackay, Terry Cooper; Johnny Giles, Liam Brady, George Best; Denis Law, Kenny Dalglish, Jimmy Greaves World: Peter Shilton; Danny McGrain, Franz Beckenbauer, Ruud Krol, Antonio Cabrini; Diego Maradona, Johnny Giles, George Best; Pele, Johan Cruyff, Denis Law https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/p...ivision-ratings.2037606/page-54#post-43362171
guys, i just had the idea of making a colour squad and it goes sth like this: Coach: Flávio Costa (Yellow) GK: Sebastiano Rossi (Red) CB: Tony Adams (Red) CB: Laurent Blanc (White) CB: Bruno Pezzey (Brown) DM: Aurélien Tchouaméni (Golden) DM: Daniele De Rossi (Red) CM: Bruno Conti (Brown) CAM: José Manuel Moreno (Brown) CAM: Wayne Rooney (Red) ST: Paolo Rossi (Red) ST: Zlatan Ibrahimović (Gold) Subs: 1. Roberto Rojas (Red) 2. Mark Schwarzer (Black) 3. Jorge Brown (Brown) 4. Nestor Rossi (Red) 5. Hans-Georg Schwarzenbeck (Black) 6. Virginio Rosetta (Red) 7. Jordi Alba (White) 8. Stefan Schwarz (Black) 9. Norman Whiteside (White) 10. Jamie Redknapp (Red) 11. Dennis Viollet (Violet) 12. Fred Morris (Black) 13. Aurelio González (Gold) 14. Jozef Adamec (Red) 15. Giuseppe Rossi (Red) Honourable Mentions: Flavio Roma (Yellow), Jim McDonagh (Brown), Robert Greene (Green), Ben White (White), Wes Brown (Brown), Archie Gray (Grey), Fábio Aurélio (Golden), Alberto Moreno (Brown), Danny Rose (Red), Flávio Conceição (Yellow), Rubén de la Red (Red), Adam Hložek (Red), Cuauhtémoc Blanco (White), Marco Branca (White), Ivan Klasnić (Red), Gerard Moreno (Brown), Eddie Gray (Grey), Kingsley Black (Black)
An election held with the votes of coaches Aimoré Moreira, Vicente Feola, Jim Lopes, Abel Picabeia and Rato, assembling the best football players in the state of São Paulo of the last 20 years (1953 - Mundo Esportivo/SP). 1 - Oberdan; Domingos and Junqueira; Tunga, Brandão and Dino; Luizinho, Sastre, Pinga and Rodrigues. 2 - Batatais; Helvio and Machado; Rui, Bauer and Noronha; Claudio, Romeu, Baltazar, Jair and Hercules. 3 - Jurandir; Agostinho and Mauro; Zezé Procópio, Zarzur and Orozimbo; Julio, Valdemar de Brito, Petronilho, Tim and Beristain. 4 - Barbosa; Murilo and Renganeschi; Santos, Brandãozinho and Alfredo; Filó, Antoninho, Teleco, Villadoniga and Simão. 5 - Nascimento; Piolim and Del Debbio; Fiume, L. Villa and Roberto; Mendes, Armandinho, Echevarrieta, Remo and Carreiro.
Djalma Santos, right-back and member of the famous Portuguesa midfield line "Djalma - Brandãozinho - Ceci". Nilton Santos never played for a team from São Paulo state.
A very interesting article about an interview that coach and former player Nils Liedholm gave to the newspaper 'Tuttosport,' in which he selects the greatest players by position that he has seen play. Team A Yashin; Jonquet - Beckenbauer; D. Santos - N. Santos; Boszik; Gren - Pelé; Garrincha - Di Stéfano - Gento. Team B Banks; Bellini - Passarella; Gentili - Cabrini; N. Rossi; Boniperti - Schiaffino; Julinho - Nordhal - Riva.
Fantastic find mate. Especially in case the page could disappear I will post the next 3 names in each category too here now.... The interesting thing is that he picks the XIs in effect in a Man City Guardiola-era esque kind of system (except the libero role, unless John Stones for example might be considered as such) - depending on which number 9 would be in it'd be more like an early 2020s false 9 line-up they had in effect I guess, or (moreso for Nordahl and Charles) more like current Man City, or perhaps 2017/18 for example (with De Bruyne and Silva as two attacking focused CM/AMs). Goalies 3-5: Hellstrom, Schuamacher, Albertosi Right Backs 3-5: Carlos Alberto, Busanszky, Burgnich Left Backs 3-5: Breitner, Facchetti, Cooper Liberos 3-5: Krol, Scirea, Moore CBs 3-5: Forster, Parola, Goicochea Anchor midfielders 3-5: Ocwirk, Netto, Falcao Inside rights 3-5: Kocsis, Didi, Wilkes Inside lefts 3-5: Rivera, Eusebio, Platini Right wingers 3-5: Matthews, Conti, Trofimov (Pes Miti del Calcio - View topic - Vasiliy TROFIMOV 1945-1950) Left wingers 3-5: Finney, Loustau, Praest Number 9s 3-5: Cruyff, Charles, Hidegkuti It's from 1984 isn't it, so same year he made these selections re: Serie A: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/o...-esp-1950s-1970s.2038892/page-9#post-37984848 "In 1984 they asked Nils Liedholm to name the 10 greatest foreigners to play in Italy 1) Nordahl 2) Gren 3) Schiaffino 4) Sivori 5) J. Hansen 6) Julinho 7) Wilkes 8) Falcao 9) Cerezo 10) Zico The first 3 were his teammates and he coached Falcao and Cerezo. and the greatest Italian "he has known" (he has seen play?): 1) Piola 2) Rivera 3) Riva 4) S. Mazzola 5) Boniperti 6) Lorenzi 7) Muccinelli 8) Bettega 9) B. Conti 10) Antognoni" It's before he made these selections (but is more extensive because of 5 per role, and with a full world XI format that merges his other choices here into one kind of - so maybe he didn't change his mind a lot at least among older players or current players of the 80s): https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/a...ime-argentina-xi.2124033/page-3#post-41095625 (1988) https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/s...-player-ratings.2085771/page-39#post-37094365 (1987)
The other names mentioned in each section of the article (not in the 55 for the first five XIs) are all named by Liedholm himself maybe too @ManiacButcher ? (perhaps except for Zico and Maradona who are highlighted as omissions maybe? - or he does add a comment on them too perhaps....). Some of them are also in those other selections of his that I posted links to anyway, but he names quite a few other options if they are all his own mentions....
"A player I would have wanted by my side? Zico no doubt, arguably the best foreign player to come to Italy after reopening of frontiers (in 1980, ndt). Yes, better than Maradona, Falcao and Platini, three players that I consider true Masters of football. Zico only lacked a bit of good luck, enough to end up playing for a great team. He would have been the talk of the town for a long long time. He had two marvelous feet. He could do wonders. And you can never forget his goalscoring prowess. On free kicks he was unpredictable. A goalkeeper could place the barrier however he wanted, Zico would always find the way to surprise him."
That's right. For some positions, he makes some honorable mentions of players who cannot be forgotten. - Beara, Zoff, Zeman, and Grosics. They weren't as great, perhaps a little less so, but they had wonderful moments in their prime. - Boskov and Billy Wright. Slightly inferior category. - Rinaldo Martino. Very good, but he was at the end of his career when he reached his perfection. - Tardelli and Mortensen, in the same talent pool as Netzer and Coluna. - Kopa Hamrin and Hahn. They should be on the list and could not be forgotten. - Bob Charlton, Rossi, Altafini, Van Himst, and Seeler. It would be unfair to omit them. - Nyers, Czibor, Chislenko, and Bettega. They could not be forgotten. ***Pelé. Completely out of the question. He has no equal. To this day, he hasn't even had an imitator. He was the best, and no one had come close to his throne. ** Garrincha. No one was more sublime or captivating than him. He was indomitable, unmarkable, and unpredictable. He was a joyful destroyer of defenders. He had the virtue of being the greatest in an era of legendary wingers like Julinho and Matthews.
Thanks very much mate. I think a quote is also attributed to him when questioned about Zico and Maradona (and Cruyff although he named him as a number 9 instead) as number 10s - "But what if I think I saw something more in the others?" (I did a quick translation of the caption) Perhaps the mentions of Sivori, John Hansen (who were in his top 10 Serie A foreigners list I linked earlier) and Suarez (who wasn't - he could also know him well as Barcelona player previously of course) plus Puskas are also all Liedholm's (in the opening section where the discussion revolves around those 'number 10' selections)? Overall his most curious selection in the 1988 teams may be Frank Swift (not mentioned in 1984, while Gordon Banks was 2nd behind Yashin). The most uncertainty about his first choice XI as at the end of the 80s (even if the last couple of years could also change his mind potentially) might be around a partner for Beckenbauer - Jonquet as in 1984, Sanchis as in 1988 (current Real Madrid player), Baresi in Italian line-up of 1988 (albeit also as libero), Santamaria, Parola, Rosato.... Bozsik, Djalma and Nilton Santos, Di Stefano, Beckenbauer, Pele and Garrincha might seem locked in every time for him. It may be he considered Gren more as inside right and/or more advanced (up the pitch) option than Schiaffino and Didi, unless he changed his mind between them or tried to be less patriotic later maybe. Left wing position sees some variation or he sees a few options as close maybe (Gento, Riva if placed there as wing forward I guess, Finney, Loustau, maybe also Praest even if he didn't get put in his top 10 Serie A foreigners list, and potentially Maradona placed there, or Cruyff even in theory....)
Other thoughts I had now re: the above posts: - It's possible that Liedholm would have considered Jonquet to be a WM centre half, and he could place a 'libero' like an old-fashioned wing half alongside/ahead of him (in theory to advance more with the ball). In the 1988 'non-Italians' selection he made (and for the Italian selection with Baresi as sweeper) he put according to the diagrams the libero as an outright sweeper so maybe he would think he should have an all-purpose centre back/marker to accompany Beckenbauer that time (maybe this is an incorrect theory/idea of mine though and he just changed his selection - Sanchis was a new entry anyway of course). - I had noticed Neeskens's name in the section talking about Netzer, Coluna, Tardelli and Stan Mortensen, so I can see he was another mention of Liedholm. - I seem to vaguely remember seeing some comment of Liedholm that made it seem like he could consider himself highly among all-time players (but I forget where it would have been anyway, and his general character seems more modest maybe - he did rate the other Gre-No-Li players highly clearly though of course). Perhaps if allowed to he wouldn't be against putting himself at inside left and moving Pele to inside right, or maybe more likely having the 4-2-3-1 kind of shape with him as deeper lying 'number 8' (even if envisaging his relatively younger self) and Pele as the number 10/second striker!
Quoting from this excellent post of wm442433: https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/interesting-best-xi.325564/page-45#post-35432116 Since we don't have Mario Kempes' full XI on the thread yet and he's one with a FourFourTwo magazine 'Perfect XI' I thought I'd add that today: Mario Kempes: Perfect XI | FourFourTwo Miguel Reina; Jose Antonio Camacho, Juan Carlos Arteche, Andoni Goicoetxea (same guy in Liedholm's 5th XI I think, even if I spelt it differently in my post before), Paul Breitner; Junior, Miguel Alonso, Zico; Emilio Butragueno, Paolo Rossi, Juan Carlos Heredia: subs - Jorge D'Alessandro, Benito, Migueli, Roberto Bettega, Diego Maradona Obviously he picked his favourites from earlier times, but concentrated on his playing career here though.
I was also thinking who the 'biggest misses' would be seen as in Liedholm's five XIs (shown below copying and pasting MB's text and then mine for 3-5) Team A Yashin; Jonquet - Beckenbauer; D. Santos - N. Santos; Boszik; Gren - Pelé; Garrincha - Di Stéfano - Gento. Team B Banks; Bellini - Passarella; Gentili - Cabrini; N. Rossi; Boniperti - Schiaffino; Julinho - Nordhal - Riva. Goalies 3-5: Hellstrom, Schumacher, Albertosi Right Backs 3-5: Carlos Alberto, Buzanszky, Burgnich Left Backs 3-5: Breitner, Facchetti, Cooper Liberos 3-5: Krol, Scirea, Moore CBs 3-5: Forster, Parola, Goicochea Anchor midfielders 3-5: Ocwirk, Netto, Falcao Inside rights 3-5: Kocsis, Didi, Wilkes Inside lefts 3-5: Rivera, Eusebio, Platini Right wingers 3-5: Matthews, Conti, Trofimov (Pes Miti del Calcio - View topic - Vasiliy TROFIMOV 1945-1950) Left wingers 3-5: Finney, Loustau, Praest Number 9s 3-5: Cruyff, Charles, Hidegkuti Other than Zico and Maradona, active players he was questioned about for number 10 (and who did feature in comments and selections of his later in 1987 and 1988 as we've seen) I guess it is Puskas (another one for crowded number 10 slot though, where Liedholm values creative players like Schiaffino and Rivera a lot clearly....and Puskas was among his mentions still too) plus old 'not so good friends' (of each other I mean, not Liedholm) apparently Gerd Muller and George Best perhaps. I think his system used in 1984 (whether it was intended as WM-era with a libero for a wing-half, or more modern 4-3-3 allowing forward-oriented players as the attacking/central midfielders) does fit well for all-time XIs even now (or especially now after 4-3-3 revival maybe). Probably I'd end with this for my own attempt with that system (favouring peak form, but not discarding consistency exactly, but also considering the fit for the role as priority and even the fit for each line-up in turn, including things like Maradona and Laudrup being able to switch positions/roles...), although I'm trying to go back to before I was born of course and Liedholm's own picks started when he was already a player really.... Team A: 1 Yashin, 2 Cafu, 3 Maldini, 4 Beckenbauer, 5 Figueroa, 6 Baresi, 7 Messi, 8 Pele, 9 Van Basten, 10 Cruyff, 11 Best Team B: 1 Schmeichel, 2 Carlos Alberto, 3 N.Santos, 4 Neeskens, 5 Nesta, 6 Moore, 7 Figo, 8 Platini, 9 Eusebio, 10 Maradona, 11 M.Laudrup Goalies (1) 3-8: Banks, G.Buffon, Shilton, Dasaev, Zoff, Grosics Right Backs (2) 3-8: Jorginho, D.Santos, Thuram, Zanetti, Vogts, Bergomi Left Backs (3) 3-8: Lizarazu, Facchetti, Amoros, Cabrini, Breitner, Marzolini Liberos (6) 3-8: Krol, Scirea, Sammer, Passarella, Hansen, Blanc CBs (5) 3-8: Hierro, Cannavaro, Vierchowod, Desailly, Van Dijk, Aldair Anchor midfielders (4) 3-8: Matthaus, Rijkaard, Redondo, Vieira, Edwards, Bozsik Inside rights (8) 3-8: Di Stefano, Charlton, Gullit, Bergkamp, Kopa, Hidegkuti Inside lefts (10) 3-8: Puskas, Zidane, Zico, R.Baggio, Rivera, Kempes Right wingers (7) 3-5: Garrincha, Matthews, Finney, K-H Rummenigge, Savicevic (maybe I prefer him as inside forward in theory though), Jairzinho Left wingers (11) 3-8: C.Ronaldo, Dzajic, Ronaldinho, Pires, Giggs, Rivelino Number 9s (9) 3-8: Ronaldo Nazario, G.Muller, Weah, Henry, Shevchenko, Klinsmann
A selection featuring the best players that midfielder Juan José Negri has ever seen play, excluding any Argentinian or Brazilian players. Maspoli; Raul Pini - Tejera; Rodriguez Andrade - Leguizamon - Gambeta; Porta - S. Varela; F. Castillo - Erico - Zapirain.
I thought re: Liedholm, given all his selections, that an 'early 80s' choice could be derived to be compared to Di Stefano's own definitive (if only by being picked later than his late 50s and early 60s nominations) XI of that time (1982 in that case, as provided by vegan10), and that a 'late 80s' choice of Liedholm could be derived to be compared to Pele's 1987 XI (also provided by Vegan10) 77c53d5b-079f-40f6-8811-4239176b9763-jpeg.138612 (1440×1920) https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/interesting-best-xi.325564/page-60#post-40514043 97b6cacd-de98-4624-af39-40c9972390a7-jpeg.138674 (1440×1920) https://www.bigsoccer.com/threads/t...of-all-time-1993.2086594/page-2#post-39763912 Keeping in mind Di Stefano and Pele didn't pick themselves (or probably consider themselves, which applies to Liedholm too but he picked them while they didn't pick him even if I think there have been some positive comments about his game and/or particular performances/goals by them historically IIRC, and sometimes some people picked him in 'all-time' world XI selections, like his countryman Putte Kock in 1968 or some journalists as part of Placar's 1981 polling). Differences in Liedholm's early 80s XI compared to Di Stefano's: Yashin for Fillol, Djalma Santos for Vogts, Jonquet for Raul Pini, Beckenbauer for Passarella, Bozsik for Nestor Rossi, Gren (or perhaps Schiaffino if matching system with Di Stefano?) for Moreno, Di Stefano for Cruyff. Same picks: Nilton Santos, Garrincha, Pele, Gento. Differences in interpreted late 80s XI for Liedholm (if including one Italian in central defence and retaining Yashin) compared to Pele's: Djalma Santos for Carlos Alberto, Baresi (if matching set-up with Pele more perhaps, otherwise could be Rosato?) for Moore, Bozsik for Zito, Cruyff (if matching set-up with Pele, otherwise Schiaffino) for Best, Pele for Maradona, Loustau for Rivelino. Same picks: Yashin, Beckenbauer, Nilton Santos, Garrincha, Di Stefano. Although as shown by that link Pele later named Cruyff in 2021 and not Best anyway (as well as Trapattoni rather than Zito for that matter too). EDIT: as mentioned previously too the 'number 11' in Liedholm's late 80s choice could be in doubt and if Maradona could get in it could be there (even if as Frank translated he could be rating Zico higher but I guess only really considering him for number 10 where he has Pele), while Gento out could be in doubt judging by 1984 choices, Finney for left wing is feasible and maybe Riva as other Italian placed in that slot too....
I have made a review of this recently and added a 1905–25 & 1925–45 period. Also some changes (in bold or italicized): Norway's best 1905–1925 (2-3-5): Hugo Hofstad – Otto Aulie, Per Skou – Adolph Wold, Asbjørn Halvorsen, Gunnar Andersen – Michael Paulsen, Kaare Engebretsen, Johnny Helgesen, Einar Gundersen, Herbert Lunde. Bench (2-3-5): Sigurd Wathne – Martin Johansen, Thaulow Goberg – Reidar Høilund, Charles Herlofson, Arvid Lindberg – Rolf Aas, Einar Wilhelms, Bjarne Johnsen, Harald Strøm, Per Holm. Norway's best 1925–1945 (2-3-5): Henry Johansen – Nils Eriksen, Øivind Holmsen – Finn Berstad, Alexander Olsen, Rolf Holmberg – Odd Frantzen, Reidar Kvammen, Jørgen Juve, Alf Martinsen, Arne Brustad. Bench (2-3-5): Tom Blohm – Rolf Johannesen, Egil Brenna Lund – Kjeld Kjos, Kristian Henriksen, Jacob Berner – Trygve Arnesen, Hans Nordahl, Knut Brynildsen, Arne Børresen, Sverre Berg-Johannesen. Norway's best until end of WW2/1908–1945, bench (2-3-5): Tom Blohm (n/a) – Rolf Johannesen (n/a), Per Skou (6/6) – Jacob Berner (3/6), Finn Berstad (2/5), Gunnar Andersen (4/5) – Odd Frantzen (n/a), Hans Nordahl (n/a), Knut Brynildsen (n/a), Alf Martinsen (n/a), Sverre Berg-Johannesen (2/6). Others: Gunnar Christensen 0/6 – Otto Aulie 3/6, Thaulow Goberg 1/6 – Adolph Wold 0/6, Kristian Henriksen n/a, Kjeld Kjos 3/6 – Olav Gundersen 1/6 & Trygve Arnesen n/a (both OR), Kaare Engebretsen 1/6 (IR), Einar Wilhelms 1/6 (IR), Johnny Helgesen 2/6 (CF), Magnar Isaksen n/a (IL) Arne Børresen 1/6 (IL), Herbert Lunde 3/6 & Per Holm 0/6 (both OL). Norway's best after WW2 until 1965 (3-2-2-3): Asbjørn Hansen – Arne Bakker, Thorbjørn Svenssen, Harry B. Karlsen – Roar Johansen, Arne Legernes – Per Bredesen, Olav Nilsen – Bjørn Borgen, Harald Hennum, Roald Jensen. Bench (3-2-2-3): Sverre Andersen – Edgar Falch, Finn Thorsen, Edgar Stakset – Thorleif Olsen, Bjørn Spydevold – Arne Pedersen, Per Kristoffersen – Gunnar Thoresen, Odd W. Sørensen, Erik Johansen. 1965 to 1985 (4-3-2-1): Ola By Rise – Per Egil Ahlsen, Åge Hareide, Einar Jan Aas, Anders Giske – Roger Albertsen, Kai Erik Herlovsen, Harald Berg – Tom Lund, Hallvar Thoresen – Odd Iversen. Bench (4-4-2): Geir Karlsen – Svein Fjælberg, Svein Grøndalen, Terje Kojedal, Per Edmund Mordt – Pål Jacobsen, Vidar Davidsen, Tom Sundby, Finn Seemann – Arne L. Økland, Jørn Andersen. 1985 to 2005 (4-4-2): Erik Thorstvedt – Vegard Heggem, Rune Bratseth, Ronny Johnsen, John Arne Riise – Ole Gunnar Solskjær, Erik Mykland, Kjetil Rekdal, Morten Gamst Pedersen – John Carew, Tore André Flo. Bench (4-3-3): Frode Grodås – Henning Berg, Dan Eggen, Erik Hoftun, Stig Inge Bjørnebye – Lars Bohinen, Bent Skammelsrud, Øyvind Leonhardsen – Steffen Iversen, Jan Åge Fjørtoft, 'Mini' Jakobsen. 2005 to 2025, bench (4-3-3): Ørjan Nyland – Omar Elabdellaoui, Håvard Nordtveit, Leo S. Østigård, Birger Meling – Per C. Skjelbred, Mathias Norrman, Fredrik Aursnes – Mohamed Elyounoussi, Jørgen S. Larsen, Joshua King.