instant replay needed?

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by who 8 all the pies?, Oct 24, 2004.

  1. who 8 all the pies?

    who 8 all the pies? New Member

    Oct 23, 2004
    I had thought about the concept of adding instant replays to footie (kinda like the NFL where a coach can dispute a couple of decisions). Going by todays match (manu/arsenal) maybe the fa/fifa need to seriously need the consider it. Although i would hate for footie to become 'american' but i can't see any other solution.

    I think the quality of refs is too low for the EPL (why can't they all be like Collina :rolleyes: )

    There are bad decisions like today that change the game completely nearly very week!
  2. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I would be for putting two referees on the pitch before going to any kind of instant replay...and I'm not even really sure I'd be for two refs. I realize that the AR's are supposed to help but in many situations they are still rather far from where incidents occur.
  3. DjTannerr

    DjTannerr Member

    Dec 3, 1999
    New York/Milwaukee,WI
    A good argument for not having replays, as said by Tommy Smyth strangely enough, is that if you allowed replays, EVERYONE must have it, in every league, every game, everywhere. And for some places in the world, it would be difficult to do this. It would seem unfair for some leagues/games to benefit from this while others cannot...
    and, when would instant replays be done? during the game?... that would slow the game way too much.
  4. jegerpenge

    jegerpenge New Member

    Jan 18, 2003
    Lake Charles, LA
    More than it already is slowed down by the bitching and whining after a penalty call now?
  5. B Rock

    B Rock Member

    Oct 7, 2004
    No instant replay. Period. I'm not a fan of Man Utd. or Arsenal, but both teams have been lucky with some dodgy penalty calls in the past (we all know the history of Pires). Its part of the game, and part of what brings such passion to the game. Should refs continue to do what they can to prevent diving? Yes. Continue to throw cards for dives, preferably reds for particularly disgusting and obvious ones.

    But the penalty looked an obvious one at first glance, and there is nothing else you can ask of the ref. Sometimes they get it wrong, but it was clear to me Riley wasn't attempting to give any bias to either team, he called what he saw, and to be honest I think many of us saw the same thing on first glance. Its just one game, the Arse will be back. Some people just need to take a step back.

    Beyond that it would simply be impossible, there is no clear defenition of how much contact constitutes a penalty, it is a largely subjective judgement, and with instant replay ANY kind of contact in a box would result in a player going down with the knowledge it will be reviewed and a PK given.
  6. AjaxGunner

    AjaxGunner New Member

    Mar 18, 2004
    I don't think replays of any kind are going to be a panacea, but I would prefer that penalty decisions be reviewed after the match, as the FA was supposedly considering. They already use video evidence regarding suspensions for misconduct and can apply it to suspensions for diving.

    A to le Bob, he dove ONCE. At least two opposing players (Danny Mills and I forget the other) have praised Henry's fair play in the past for staying on his feet when he had been fouled by them in the penalty area. Arsenal do not dive as a habit.
  7. Martin Daoust

    Martin Daoust New Member

    Feb 14, 2003
    Hartford, CT
    Agreed, Yossarian. I have believed this ever since the Cup Final in 2001 where Henchoz got away with a stone hand-ball which I suspect fat old Steve Dunn was too exhausted to be close enough to see and his assistant either ignored it or didn't want to be part of only the second Cup Final sending-off ever. The refs can't keep up with today's players and the assistants primary focus is penalizing off-side players, and too much is missed or in Riley's case, he says he couldn't see it to escape questions about it. But a two-referee system might be worth a try...
  8. tscboys

    tscboys Member+

    Sep 7, 2004
    There should never be replays in the game, it would totally ruin the fluency, if ur team is dominating, an obvious foul right outside the box is NOT called...the coach challenges the call or some BS like that, it ruins the fluency ur team had, and then on top of that...u only have a 25% chance of scoring off that free kick...where as in regular play, if ur dominating, ur chances are much better
  9. Dave_M

    Dave_M New Member

    May 25, 2004
    Its a tough one. Obviously we dont want every little knock and tackle studied. The game would be 3 hours, but I think any time a penalty or close range free kick might not be such a bad idea.

    I think the problem is a little more simple than that though. Especially in reference to todays game. The ref didnt really muck up. From the angle he was positooned at i woulda given the penalty as well.

    We the fans at home have the luxury of studying in slow mo the reverse angle which showed no contact, and rooney took a dive.


    The linesman was in the perfect spot to see this, but a friend of mine seems to think linesmen can no longer disagree with a refs descision, even when they can see something that he coulndt have. This seems a bit bizare to me....but maybe hes wrong on that one?

    Maybe its not so bad though. The run had to end sooner or later, and this is about the best way it could happen. For a start if it was Spurs we'd never have heard the end of it, and the fact it happened on a sketchy call means that any Man U fan whos honest with himself knows theres only a limited ammount of gloating he can do....

    ....and also lets be honest with outrselves here. The unbeaten run would have been over long ago if Pires hadnt done the exact same thing. Such is the nature of the game.

    I do wish pundits would stop talking about "earning the penalty". It really annoys me. I also found it ammusing to see Fergison take a leaf out of Wenger's book with his "I didnt see it" comment. Hilarious :)
  10. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    I've said before that decisions like the rooney flop even out over the course of the season. It even did today when cole tripped ronaldo later on in the game. sure it sucks and i too would be complaining if that happened to united but....thats football.
  11. timberley11

    timberley11 New Member

    Sep 27, 2004
    Buffalo, NY
    Are you sure Tommy Smith said this, sounds like it was far to intelligent to come from his mouth? :confused:
  12. Dave_M

    Dave_M New Member

    May 25, 2004

    And to counter that there was a possibility early in the game that maybe we should have had a penalty.

    But your right on. Over the long haul luck evens out and generally the best team walks away with the trophy........and on that note:

    We are top o' the league, say we are top o' the league :)
  13. Rick B

    Rick B Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    Harare, Zimbabwe
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    As much as it hurt over todays decision, I agree with this comment. it would destroy the kind of football we all love. I would much rather lose a game down to a bad ref's decision once in a while than have replays. I was going to add that the ref's are only human after all, but then Riley came to mind - and he's just a cnut.
  14. Val1

    Val1 Member+

    Mar 12, 2004
    MD's Eastern Shore
    Arsenal FC
    I hate instant replay, and I love American football. I will expect refs to call perfect games when the players play a perfect game. Refs are no better than anyone else.

    Having said that, though, I CAN expect the quality of refereeing to get better and for the leagues to try as hard as they can to improve said quality. I've always felt that a second referee would be a good idea, as Yoss has already posted. In the past I've admired the power the soccer ref has as opposed say, to baseball umps who get dirt kicked on them. But since the refs totally ignore the linesmen most of the time, the linesmen are never used to their fullest and we get stuck with these poor caliber calls.
  15. Mailrenegade

    Mailrenegade Member

    Jun 15, 2002
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think a referee needs to be absolutely positive about a penalty call in a game like United VS Arsenal. Everything is magnified and the ref needs to be 100% sure in order to give the penalty. When I saw the RIO/Freddie incident on replay I thought it could be a foul but I didnt want the game to hinge on a dodgy referee call. I thought it was a good no call. However, after seeing Rooney get the penalty I wanted the penalty on RIO. The most important thing for a referee is to be consistent. Riley was consistently inconsistent. The first part of the match he didnt produce a card for anything.

    Replay would definitely help but the logistics would just be a nightmare.
  16. topcatcole

    topcatcole BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 26, 2003
    Washington DC
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't like replay, but they do need to give more scrutiny to match officials. Guys like Riley who clearly favor one team need to be disciplined or removed. He is so pro-ManU it isn't even funny. Look at the record. He needs to be disciplined.

    Clubs need to grow some when dealing with the FA too. They need to start demanding a higher level of accountability from match officials. Riley lost control of the match today, and yet it is players and possibly coaches and managers who the FA will sanction. Riley's efforts were inexcusable, and he will not be held to account.

    Mike Riley

    Arsenal 8-9-3
    ManU 12-3-4 including today.

    Arsenal should do everything in their power to make sure that Riley never calls another game in the EPL again.
  17. bigfranz

    bigfranz New Member

    Jul 18, 2000
    I dont think this is the trust of the argument. If it is not available on a world wide basis it is not a fair . Everyteam must be able to use it or then no team can use it.

    Are you sure Tommy Smith said this, sounds like it was far to intelligent to come from his mouth?

    You would sound far more intelligent if you at least got the guys name correct. Its just a little item but it drives me crazy that all you guys with the super intelligance cant get the names right. Its Smyth not Smith.
  18. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    I say no to the replay. The human factor is ok with me.

    As I watched the replay of Rooney's "fall" I seem to remember a fall that RP made against Pompey last year that led to our equaliser.
  19. Bluto11

    Bluto11 The sky is falling!

    May 16, 2003
    Chicago, IL
    looking at the stats I agree with you, but who did Arsenal and Utd play when Riley was the ref? If Utd was playing Leicester and they got a win then that really does not show a pro-Utd bias. If Utd's wins were ther result of presents (as RvN so elloquenty put it) then I can see a bias.

    Mark Riley is like Hugh Hollins when the Bulls would play the Knicks
  20. surfcam

    surfcam Member

    Sep 8, 2004
    Corpus Christi, TX
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    No replay, but I agree more attention should be paid to linesmen. To take your baseball refernce, umps now are meeting to discuss disputed calls, and they listen to the one who had the best angle or view. Before, whoever made the call overrulled all the others, even if they had a better view. The new system worked well in the ALCS. So lets transfer this strategy to footie, and raise the caliber of the refs.
  21. Motterman

    Motterman Member

    Jul 8, 2002
    Orlando, FL
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No instant replay. Slippery slope we don't want to start down, IMO.
  22. ibreak4coffee

    ibreak4coffee Member

    Jul 27, 2004
    New York
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
  23. Andy

    Andy New Member

    Dec 23, 1998
    Why don't you guys want replays? I mean, seriously now, a couple of weeks ago I was watching a NFL game where they stopped the game to that the ref could review a call they got right the first time so they could reverse the decision to the wrong call. You people don't want to enjoy that level of incompetance? Unbelievable.
  24. tmaker

    tmaker Member

    Nov 24, 2003

    Seriously, as a ref myself, I'm of two minds about instant replay in soccer. Clearly it works just fine in rugby, but the use is restricted--and it would have to be if ever it were used in soccer. If there were ever to be replay in soccer:

    1) it would never be used for fouls outside of the PA;
    2) it would never be used for misconducts--since the FAs of the world already do use video replay for this, after the match where it belongs;
    3) it would never be used for ball in and out of play;
    4) it would only apply to goals and penalties.

    American football overuses the replay, and clearly soccer couldn't withstand that. The difference between the sports is obvious, but nothing is more telling than this:

    Average time ball is in play in a 90 minute soccer match--62 minutes
    Average time ball is in play in a 60 minute football match--12 minutes

    Soccer can't and shouldn't have to withstand such ludicrous stoppages, and unfortunately replays would do just that. Where would they stop? Who knows?

    At any rate, the idea that it would somehow eliminate the human factor is a bit overstated, as is the idea that it would somehow remove all questionable calls. There will always be questionable calls. But teams generally only notice this when the calls go against them in tight situations. I wonder why...
  25. yossarian

    yossarian Moderator
    Staff Member

    Jun 16, 1999
    Big City Blinking
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good points. As I said early on in this thread, I would much rather see two refs on the pitch (in addition to the two AR's) before instant replay. Yes, I realize this might wreak havoc in youth leagues where it's already difficult to have enough refs. IF instant replay were to ever be used....I would hope that it would only be for the instances you mention. At least in those cases, play is already stopped so it wouldn't be too much of a disruption.

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