Infantino: FIFA is currently testing the new offside rule in America and China

Discussion in 'MLS: Commissioner - You be The Don' started by vevo5, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Did we ever hear where in America this trial was taking place? Because if it's anywhere in the US it's not in the top 5 tiers of leagues. Did America mean somewhere in North, Central or South America?
     
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  2. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just get rid of the lines and it's no longer clear and obvious :D
     
  3. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. We have not heard where in America or China. FIFA should provide more information instead of being secretive.

    I wish FIFA contact USL and ask them to test this. Maybe FIFA can even sponsor some money to USL.

    More scoring for USL and FIFA get data.

    Watching EPL highlights on youtube, in the 7 matches today, there is an invalid goal that would be valid under the new FIFA offside rule.
     
  4. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Pretty sure the "testing in America" is BS. There hasn't been a single post about this test in the Referee forum, and that forum has a good cross-section of refs. So no refs are talking about it, no pro games that anyone here knows about is using it, unless they're testing in the Southern Illinois rec league its not actually happening.
     
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  5. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    or maybe the testing is happening behind closed door and all participants signed confidentiality agreement

    FIFA president did not said they are testing with professional leagues in America.

    If I am FIFA, I would call up USL and come up with an agreement to let USL test this for 2021 season. USL get some sponsored FIFA money and more scoring. FIFA get the data they need.

    Win-win.
     
  6. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USL uses PRO referees, so PRO would have to agree to it.
     
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  7. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not to mention how do you test this "behind closed doors" in a league that allows fans? If they're doing it in America "behind closed doors" its none of the pro or top amateur leagues and its not any of the college conferences. So again, its the equivalent of the Southern Illinois rec league or, more likely, BS.
     
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  8. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I can say with certainty that this test is not occurring within the United states. Now if America means somewhere else in Central or South America I cannot talk to that.
     
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  9. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #59 vevo5, Aug 29, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
    Behind closed door testing would mean it is not open to the public.

    Just some cameras and some referees and players. All signed confidentiality agreement.

    Testing to see how referees would judge offside with this new rule. Is it harder to judge offside or easier?

    Testing to see how players would adjust to his new offside rule. Would attackers run a bit ahead of the defender with this new "onside margin"? How would defenders react?

    With the result from this testing, FIFA will go to some leagues like USL, MLS, K-League, A-League, J-League, Chinese Super League, Canadian Premier League and show them the data and ask if they want to trial it for a year. FIFA did it with VAR. Trial it behind closed door. Then smaller leagues first before big leagues.


    or FIFA president Infantino lied when he said FIFA is testing it in America and China. But why would he lie? What motive does he have to lie? He could say we are testing it in China. Arsene Wenger is supervising it. No need to mention America at all.
     
  10. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    VAR process:

    1) mock trials in 2012-13
    2) friendly between PSV - Eindhoven in July 2016
    3) USL match - August 2016
    4) international friendly
    5) competitive KNVB beker national Cup tie between Ajax and Willem II - September 2016


    VAR was conceived by the Refereeing 2.0 project in the early 2010s, under the direction of the Royal Netherlands Football Association (KNVB).[11] The system was tested through mock trials during the 2012–13 season of the Eredivisie, the country's top football league. In 2014, the KNVB petitioned the International Football Association Board (IFAB) to amend its laws of the games to allow the system to be used during more extensive trials. The IFAB approved trials and a pathway to full implementation during its 2016 general meeting.[11][12] Lukas Brud, IFAB secretary, said "With all the 4G and Wi-Fi in stadia today...we knew we had to protect referees from making mistakes that everyone can see immediately", such as Thierry Henry’s handball that eliminated Ireland from qualifying for the 2010 FIFA World Cup where the on-field referees were not in a position to view the infraction. Then-FIFA president Sepp Blatter, who was strongly against introducing new technology in football, was forced out of his post due to a corruption scandal in 2015, and the VAR proposal received a warm reception under his successor Gianni Infantino.[11]

    The first live trial of the VAR system was in July 2016 in a friendly match between PSV and FC Eindhoven[13]

    The next live trial of the VAR system began in August 2016 with a United Soccer League match between two Major League Soccer reserve sides.[14] Match referee Ismail Elfath reviewed two fouls during the match and, after consultation with video assistant referee Allen Chapman, decided to issue a red card and a yellow card in the respective incidents.[15]

    Video reviews were introduced the following month during an international friendly between France and Italy.[16]

    The first professional "non-friendly" game was an official first round KNVB beker national Cup tie between Ajax and Willem II on 22 September 2016.[17]
     
  11. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #61 vevo5, Aug 29, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
    With VAR, IFAB/FIFA also did closed-door testing.

    Maybe after closed-door testing of the new offside rule, FIFA will get in touch with USL.

    USL Championship and USL League One season won't end until October 30. Or maybe IFAB-FIFA is taking its sweet time and won't ask USL until next year. (I hope not, I want to see this rule change implement for the World Cup in Dec 2022).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_USL_Championship_season
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_USL_League_One_season

    https://www.uslsoccer.com/news_arti...ducted-in-select-usl-regular-season-contests-

    The USL, in collaboration with Major League Soccer, will continue to serve as a leader in video review testing as the International Football Association Board (The IFAB) will oversee a live Video Assistant Referee trial during the game between the New York Red Bulls II and Orlando City B at Red Bull Arena on Friday night (7 p.m. ET | Match Center).

    Following the second IFAB workshop at Red Bull Arena last month, MLS and the USL offered The IFAB an opportunity to further test communication between the Video Assistant Referee and the on-field referee through trials in select USL regular-season matches. These trials are important preparation for future experiments that will take place in competitions across the seven countries confirmed for participation in the VAR program, as well as in select FIFA competitions.

    The IFAB conducted the first closed-door live tests of the VAR system last month at Red Bull Arena, as officials were able to familiarize themselves with the use of the technology, while also aiming to maintain the flow of the game.

    In addition to the work previously done in the United States, workshops and meetings have also been held in the Netherlands and Switzerland. Now, for the first time, the system will be used for a professional league game.

    “With our team having seen the system in operation throughout this testing phase, we are looking forward to seeing further VAR live experiments used in USL games,” said USL VP of Competition and Operations Perry Van Der Beck, who will be in attendance on Friday night. “This is a groundbreaking moment for soccer as a whole, and we are proud to be part of it as we work alongside MLS and the IFAB on this project.”
     
  12. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Week 2 of Premier League (watched some highlights)

    These invalid goals would be valid under the new offside rule

    Liverpool - Burnley match. It look very close without the line


    [​IMG]



    But with the line, it not close at all...Salah could be up another feet and still onside.

    [​IMG]


    This would be a very close call....need to see the line

    [​IMG]


    Aston Villa - Newcastle - PK was given then got called back due to offside

    [​IMG]
     
  13. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Watching some more highlights of Week 3

    Invalid goals would become valid under the new offside rule

    [​IMG]


    close call---need line to see
    [​IMG]




    I haven't watch Week 1 highlights yet. Will post when I do.

    Week 2 and Week 3 = 20 matches

    5 invalid goals could have been valid goals. (assuming the PK count as a goal). Ratio of 1 extra goal every 4 matches.

    In line with what we observed from Euro 2020. An extra 1 valid goal every 5 matches.
     
  14. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've felt that we are on the verge of technology solving the offside problem. Players have RFIDs in the waistbands of their shorts, front, sides rear. Ball has an accelerometer and transmitter in it (obviously ruggedized). Computer does real time analysis of calls by the ref which indicates to CR if it's legit or not.

    The rule will need to change to 'waist of attacking player being in front of the waist of the defender'.
     
  15. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Behind the scenes this technology does seem to be coming probably sooner than people realize. It also creates an interesting situation where you will still need assistant referees to call offside at lower levels but they'll never progress to higher levels and need to use the skills they've learned.p
     
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  16. BalanceUT

    BalanceUT RSL and THFC!

    Oct 8, 2006
    Appalachia
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends on how cheap and easy they make it. If it's as simple as handing out belts at the start of games, positioning 4 radios at the corner flags and using the right ball, it will move down the levels as $$ come down.
     
  17. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #67 vevo5, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
    If the rule changed is as you mentioned above, then this is offside since the waist of attacker is in front of the waist of the defender

    [​IMG]

    Same with this

    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]

    Which in my opinion is anti-football. Taking away great goals from the fans. These 3 goals would be onside with the Arsene Wenger offside rule and offside with the waist rule.

    The offside is meant to prevent goal-hanging. The attackers are nowhere near goal-hanging here.
     
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  18. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IF YOU CHANGE

    'waist of attacking player being in front of the waist of the defender' = offside

    TO

    "any part of the waist of the attacking player is in line with any part of the waist of the defender" = onside


    then the 3 goals above would be onside


    this would be a very close call comparing any part of the waist of attacker to any part of the waist of defender
    [​IMG]
     
  19. vevo5

    vevo5 Member

    Nov 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #69 vevo5, Aug 30, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2021
    searching on google to see if RFID tags and offside and see if anyone is working on it, there is almost nothing there.

    FIFA is working on this:

    https://www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-wo...fside-var-tech-to-go-into-development-in-2021

    The first offline tests with limb-tracking and automated ball detection technology were held at the 2019 FIFA Club World Cup. Solutions to improve the accuracy of the kick point include tracking data from sensor technology and video data from camera systems, while a player's skeleton will be modelled to be precise to the tip of a player's boot.

    "The goal is to develop a supportive tool similar to goal-line technology: Not designed to make the decision, but to provide evidence instantly to the referees," Johannes Holzmuller, FIFA's director of football technology & innovation, said.

    [​IMG]



    adidas does have a smart ball



    What does the Adidas smart ball do?

    Called the “world's first intelligent and app-enabled soccer ball,” the Adidas miCoach Smart Ball uses a “six-axis MEMS accelerometer sensor package” to measure how ball impact, ball spin, impact points, and even visual flight trajectories
     
  20. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Calculus, I hope. That shit kicked my ass back in the day.
     
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  21. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I got a 5 on the AP Calculus test.

    Maybe if you were better at it you could... be an unpaid moderator on a soccer website 27 years later. #LifeGoals
     
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  22. SetPeace

    SetPeace Member+

    Jun 22, 2004
    SC Illinois
    Club:
    Torquay United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :ROFLMAO:

    The last math class I took in high school was Geometry.
    I was terrible at Algebra, so prior to entering college, I took a no-credit pre-Algebra course at a local community college...aced the course.

    When I got to college to take Freshman Algebra, I was a lost soul. I dropped the course in November because I was failing it and spinning my wheels. What was a boy to do? I needed 6 hours of Math to get my degree.

    The college I attended had competency exams in certain subjects. If you scored high enough on the test, you would earn 6 credit hours without ever having to take a course in that area of study. That's what I did, and to my shock...I passed! Funny how that works. I could do the test with little difficulty, but in a classroom setting, I was...as another popular thread on this board...toast!
     
  23. KCbus

    KCbus Moderator
    Staff Member

    United States
    Nov 26, 2000
    Reynoldsburg, OH
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know why people let Algebra whip them.

    You remember in third grade, when they put this in front of you? Three, plus, and then a great big empty box, equals eight? And asked you "what's in the box?" That's Algebra. Everything else is just building off of that.
     
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  24. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It was differential equations that killed me. It was a required class for the major I wanted and I had to take it 3 times. First time I failed to get a good enough grade was my fault for not putting in enough work. Second time was a professor who didn’t want to teach the class. No assigned homework, and at the end of the midterm you could tell him that you didn’t feel good about it and he’d toss the test in the trash. In that case your grade for the class was whatever you got on the final. Otherwise it was a combination of the midterm and final.

    Third time I had the right combination of effort from myself and a professor who wanted to teach.
     
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  25. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    United States
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I had no problem with algebra but when our prospective German teacher wrote down all the German words for 'the' on the blackboard I immediately checked out.
     
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