Many youth players in our area seem to enjoy playing in winter 7v7 leagues at the indoor soccer complex. Lots of club and rec. players alike. Has anyone really noticed any developmental improvements from your spring/fall outdoor players who opted to play in winter indoor leagues (lets exclude futsol from discussion for now as most already agree its best option for footskill/speed training) vs. those that did not partake in winter soccer play of any sort? If so, what improvements did you notice?
We are getting ready to start our second indoor season next week. But we are 7v7 with no walls. Ordinary soccer on a slightly smaller filed than we play 8v8 outdoor at u9. So the speed of the ball on the turf is the only real difference for us. I've noticed a few players have developed a bit softer first touch in order to keep possession of the ball on this faster surface. I would expect them all to be just slightly ahead of their peers who didn't play when we head outdoor in the spring, but nothing major. Just several extra hours of play compared to the peers who didn't play. The ones I'm seeing the most noticeable improvements from are the ones doing Coerver this winter.
I don't want to take this too far off topic, but besides the improvement I saw from the 2 players who played futsal, I saw great improvement from a number of girls (U10) who played basketball. This was especially evident on the defensive end (staying in front of attacker) and spacing. I have seen some "indoor soccer" wall ball games and I was unimpressed with it's developmental potential, but the kids were really having fun.
Hard to say. I wish I could be more definitive but I've seen both. Players take time off and something clicks. They go do footskill training only or play another sport. Some play through the winter and that's when a breakthrough moment happens. I also see regression because of that damn wall. I'll just plead that you instill in them some PRIDE, yes pride, that they do not use the wall. DO NOT let the wall control the ball for them. DO NOT let the wall be an excuse for taking careless shots. The wall is stupid, it has no brain, it cannot make a tactical first touch. Yes, a player can play a give and go to themselves but that's so rudimentary—do it once and move onto something else. Our kids are limited to indoor with walls too, but I hate it. It encourages thoughtlessness and indifferent soccer. What is wall ball good for? Since the ball doesn't go out like it does outdoors, you don't have natural stoppages (e.g. periods of momentary rest). So if the coach doesn't succumb to hockey style line shifts then players can learn how to pace themselves, how to let the ball do the work, how to play to get your lungs back—essentially an opportunity to build some soccer IQ. It's a good environment for kids to try new positions. It's good way to learn to play in tight spaces.
What is a wall good for? I used them for --rebounds during warmups --bank shot passes using spin to take advantage of any passing lane. --give and go combinations with the wall any time you want it--no team mate required --and my favorite a low long shot along the wall bending into the wall so it hugs the wall and dives into the goal. (I don't remember a keeper ever allowing one in, but they usually were not caught and created nastiness in front of the goal). I always hit a few them during pre-match warmups. You had to use a lot of power to make up for running along the wall the whole way. Realistic? Pele was known for intentionally redirecting balls off opponent's legs. He played futsal without walls, but I also imagine he also hit lots of balls against walls in his day. .
for a while, my men's team suffered from too much indoor (at least, that was my theory). it's a different game. the spacing is different, which demands different awareness. the size of the field changes where players will disappear and pop up next. the necessary touch is different (that gentle little roll that travels 15 yards on turf is going to stop five feet away from you in 2 inch long grass). just something to be watchful for.
My players are in love with indoor soccer. In fact some of them take the indoor league and tournaments more serious than our outdoor season. If it promotes a love of the game, and it increases the number of touches our players get, then I'm all for it. Yes the game is different, the space is tighter, the ball bounces differently, and the elements of indoor (wall, surface, etc.) all can play a factor. But it's no different than playing against a faster opponent outdoors that limits your time on the ball, or playing on different sized fields or surfaces. Teaching players to adapt their game to different situations is a positive in my mind. If players can learn to adapt they become that much better of a player. If they recognize that they have less time on the ball against a specific opponent and it's time to play two-touch or one-touch that's fantastic! Big fan of indoor.
For me any time a team plays wall ball I suggest staying away from the wall as much as possible. Unfortunately, playing wall ball and winning games doesn't develop 11v11 skills. When we put that "rule" in place it forces my team to move more off the ball.
My biggest issue with wall ball is that it doesn't always punish poor touch, or sometimes poor pass selection. Let the ball ricochet off your foot, or simply lump the ball long, and it doesn't go out to the other team--you or your teammate may still get it off the wall. There are a few other small things. Tactically, I like my defenders to always show inside because the wall is a permanent second attacker, available for a (literal) wall pass, or to guide the ball to a teammate. If you shepherd a player towards the wall, they can still use it to get the ball by you. That's the opposite of outdoors, where you generally want to channel outside in your defending end and the touchline is your friend. Goalkeeper positioning also is different, although the goal is small enough I don't feel it will ruin your outdoor positioning (I never had a problem with the transition). But wall ball is still better than no ball.
Benji can you go into the positioning for indoor vs outdoor? I'm by no means an excellent keeper and my positioning seems wrong when I play indoor on a 7 foot tall x 10 foot wide(?) goal. Do you cheat to the near post more? The lack of offside allows play to be much closer to the goal than it normally would. Reaction times are further shortened because of that.
Maybe its different for kids because they play on the same fields as adults (relatively speaking they have more space), but as an adult I always found that a season of indoor improved my ball skills. The fields around here are very small. Everything is so tight that touch, passing and shots have to be perfect.
I think the hate of the wall is a little over the top. Does it really end up making players less concerned about quality passes? I doubt it. A bad pass in indoor, just like outdoor, has a 50% chance of making it to your own teammate. I like a couple of things about walls. First, it really encourages shooting. There is almost no reason to not pull the trigger. It really helps kids get the idea to shoot often and that is something, generally, discouraged in this country. It is a great game to play to teach the wall pass. Pass to the wall, keep running, and behold you just beat a player. And, for players who use the ball well it really gets them to think hard about using another element of the game. Another good thing; players get lots of touches. Lot of touches with a lot of pressure. The game, because of so few players, also, helped the kids better understand positioning much better. Where they were at any given time was so important compared to the outdoor game where it wouldn't matter much if a couple of players got out of sync. Being open for a pass when in when the team is possession, and understanding space on defense just seems so much easier to convey to the kids in indoor.
Have to agree, it's the same reason we use walls in training and small sided games. All of these things can have application to the big game. Is it the big game? No, but neither is 4v4, but it is the fundamental form of the big game. The reason we use walls in training touch is for repetition and consistency. The number of touches in an indoor game and the consistency of the rebound can help train players in passing and receiving. In South America it's pretty common to see kids playing on cement courts that have walls around them (typical design for futsal and basketball courts in South America with fences a cement wall and fence around them). It's pretty common for kids to play of the walls in those countries, it adds to the creativity of the game and the options they have to chose from.
I think dakota is referring to informal matches better called street futsal rather than organized futsal matches. Like this--
I see wall ball as a necessary evil, not too evil. But I've already mentioned that above. The newer facilities don't have walls and some are even so expansive that they fave room for nearly full sized pitches. I'm always amused when a ball hits the rafters though. I play in a men's league in a wall-ball arena and even adults use the wall as a crutch.There's always a give and go off the wall in each game. One of the most frustrating things IS the indiscriminate shooting especially with adults. It can't go out of bounds so they just fire and most of the time they sky it or hit it wide. It frustrates me, because we're in the attacking third and you're essentially giving away possession. To me, it encourages laziness and panicked thinking—I've seen very few of these blasts on target (because they ruin their technique striving for too much power) and even fewer go in.
Well, it's the de facto version of the indoor game around here as few know what futsal is or won't give it a chance because wall ball is what everyone else does. That said... What I like: Confined space helps with ball control and quicker decision-making Better than no winter soccer options at all Lots of touches Fitness through play Wall imparts basic concept of a 1-2 pass to U-Littles Goalkeepers have to react quickly What I don't like: While shots are more frequent with walls, they encourage poor shots, which can be rewarded with the bounce off the end wall. Close to the wall gives attacker two options (wall, teammate) that aren't there in outdoor. Speed and momentum cause dangerous situations near the walls, especially in the rounded corners. Shield near the sideline/goal line and get pushed and you go out of bounds; pushed near the wall and you're getting hurt. Young keepers can get discouraged from the higher scores and being punished by an end wall pass, even though their positioning is sound from an outdoor perspective. I'm coaching the second session from Coach Joystick (he asked me if I wanted to). Since I allow them to move where needed instead of being rigid with positioning, I haven't seen as many wall passes as during the first session with the kids moving to support...hopefully that continues.
Hate to break it to you but in all of those videos they respected the out of bounds and the wall was there simply to keep the ball in. The difference is we see it as another defender, like it is on the outside field. By using the wall as a teammate you are being counterproductive for 11v11 training.
Our last indoor season I didn't like the contact at all. We had some games with a really lax ref and it looked like Hockey they way kids were getting checked into the boards. Indoor needs refs who can keep games under control.
I generally coach girls and I, mostly, see more shots as a big positive. If you want to say indoor encourages bad shooting, then outdoor encourages kids not to shoot at all. I think many American players tend to not shoot unless they are sure it is has a very high chance of going in. I think indoor help players shed that inhibition. Obviously, if they take it the extreme and shot wherever and whenever it would be a bad thing. But, at the end of the day I think the concept of teaching kids to shoot when given the opportunity is a good thing.
I'm with you on taking opportunities Jose, but with wall ball sometimes I think the kids just blindly kick it near the goal face with the idea of "maybe it might go in, but if not I can get a killer bank off the back wall." Or worse, they're purposely going for the bank pass off the back wall with no shot intent, and that doesn't have any equivalent to the outdoor game. My son trains on a futsal field during the week and in similar positions to outdoor, the kids take on the defender, or dribble to the corner/goal line and pass/cross or drop a pass and reset. From what I see with the young players, wall ball is more full speed ahead while futsal has more east/west and south play.
When the ball is at an angle and in shooting range, you need to hug the near post. Body right up against the near post, but don't face the ball square... open up to the field a bit, to make it easier to see and get to a possible cross. Outdoors, you'd be a bit off the near post and out in front of it. But indoors with walls, you risk the ball hitting the wall, then back off you and in. So you need to be right on the post. That's the biggest difference. Your "arc" in front of the goal is also smaller; you stay closer to your line in general. Only when it's clear that it's a breakaway type situation (no defender between you and the attacker with the ball) do you charge out. There's also one big change I make tactially. Outdoors, if we have a 2v1 situation, I want the defender to pressure the ball and we'll take our chance with the pass. Indoors, it's the opposite. The goal is small enough that I can defend the attacker with the ball, come out and close the angle, and I want the defender to take away the pass.
Doesn't have a tactical equivalent, but it is the same technique, except it demands more accuracy and requires controlling the spin.