Incident between Wes Hart and Damon Nahas

Discussion in 'Referee' started by babranski, Sep 10, 2023.

  1. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A little bit of fact finding mission but also curious to hear what officials think about this incident. The gifs I made here don't catch the pushing in great detail but there was a better replay that I don't have during the broadcast that clearly shows Wes Hart with two hands on the fourth official while he pushed towards the UNC bench. I'm a UNC fan and admittedly biased about the whole play, but I am still curious about the reaction of this community after so much discussion here and on twitter about physical engagement with officials.

    The thread also includes a gif of the moment Wes Hart ran on to the field and confronted the officials at the end of the first half. Though it seemed friendly enough, I thought this kind of thing was frowned upon?

    1701059496661987571 is not a valid tweet id
     
  2. Sport Billy

    Sport Billy Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Certainly looks like an apology and handshake.
     
  3. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    If I'm seeing your tiny GIF correctly and the Alabama coach is aggressively going towards the UNC bench, that is worthy of a straight RC. But with a 4th official there perhaps he managed it. Should be at least a YC
     
  4. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    just for clarification, the handshake where he ran onto the field occurred at halftime. The incident where he received the yellow occurred in the second half.

    I assume there's some common sense being applied to certain rules, one of them being that you can't confront an official after a half/game ended. I'm assuming in this incident it wasn't a confrontation so much as an apology perhaps, like you say, ... but it wasn't related the incident that lead to the two yellows.

    Correct. A yellow card was given to both coaches in the thread. As a UNC fan obviously I find it a little hard to swallow... the yellows do not feel ... "equitable" ... Nahas stayed in the appropriate area and never physically engaged. Still got a yellow. I've written it off as it being late in the game and the official didn't want to inflame the situation by appearing to have favorites.
     
  5. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    #5 USSF REF, Sep 11, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2023
    The UNC coach made a remark to the Alabama coach that he took exception to which resulted in his crossing over to confront him. It never went beyond words and the other Alabama coach got him out of there in time to prevent additional escalation. The Alternate official decided to step in between the coaches to try to prevent escalation (which you could read as a responsibility of the Alternate Official).

    The rule regarding referee assault is:
    So while being in contact with the Alternate could constitute that offense, if the Alternate chooses to step in between the coaches and does not feel he has been assaulted, then I think he is within his discretion not to do anything, especially considering it carries a minimum 3 match suspension for the first offense. Although, he could have, after all, not intervened and let the thing happen...

    For those suggesting the act of crossing into the opponent's half is an red card (which it is IFAB/FIFA as that is a specific send-off offense there, however that rule is not (yet) in the NCAA rule book. Instead, here are the pertinent college rules that deal with coaches leaving the "coaching area":
    ...
    Rules related to entering the field during halftime to talk to the referee include:

     
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  6. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    are you referencing something here or are you basing these comments on what you saw during the broadcast? The way you've worded this, it seems like you've gotten an explanation from someone.
     
  7. @acr

    @acr New Member

    Jun 17, 2022
    Not the poster, but the box score has the referee crew listed. The likelihood of posters on here being either on the crew or able to quickly text a member of the crew is near enough 100%.
     
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  8. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    ;)
     
  9. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    If you watch the broadcast that’s just not factually accurate.
     
  10. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All right, I'm not quite sure how to take that explanation. It feels ... naive. It misses the point of concern that's being raised about the behavior with a convenient excuse of "the UNC coach said something".

    The growing frustration in the UNC community is that teams are increasingly becoming physical and antagonistic in order to disrupt the game as much as possible. Certainly the championship game against UCLA last year put the effectiveness of that strategy in the spotlight.

    While that is generally a valid tactic, especially early in the season, there is concern that it is expanding into more "unorthodox" strategies. We've played three SEC teams in a row in Arkansas, South Carolina, and last night vs Alabama. In all three games we've seen teams go beyond what should be acceptable on field behavior and there's growing concern it has extended to off field bench behavior.

    It has been frustrating that some officials, not all but some, seem naive or unwilling to change how they officiate a team when their goals to play with such physicality has been plainly spelled out by multiple coaches so far this season. They want to make UNC uncomfortable physically. They want to toe that line. They want to cross it and see what they can get away with. Arkansas' coach is on record for playing like that against all opponents. Wes Hart, the Alabama Coach, did an interview during half time where he repeatedly talked about frustrating UNC, and while he was deliberately vague, I don't think anybody was left in doubt to what his team was doing to frustrate UNC. It was certainly not anything to do with tactics or possession.

    Given that context, it is difficult not to view the incident cynically through the same lens for UNC fans. It is difficult not to see this as another attempt by Wes Hart to antagonize, mock, or intimidate.

    and of course one of the most frustrating elements of all of this is when an official is determined to stay as neutral as possible in games and lets it all happen with as minimal adjudication as possible. I think it's one thing to perhaps not be aware of the quality of a team or their history, but when you're in a game where there is clearly a gap in skill and the other team is trying to make up for it with physicality and unsportsmanlike conduct? Is that not something officials are willing to take into consideration?

    This of course goes into the greater point of concern UNC fans have had for a while now. UNC Women's has a long and storied history. They're a "blue blood" ... and with that history comes calls from other fan bases of favoritism. You don't have to leave this forum to read fans of other teams post how UNC consistently "got the calls". This has lead to a growing concern that officials are trying to avoid appearing bias in UNC's favor.

    Games like this come along and that effort to avoid an appearance of bias in one direction ends up making them bias in another. These SEC games were wild, nearly lawless games because the officials didn't want to appropriately warn the opposing team for their clear unsportsmanlike efforts to physically disrupt the game. Alabama clearly targeted one of UNC's best players in Maycee Bell, fouling her hard and cynically and leaving her on the ground 3 or 4 times in what was a span of only a couple of minutes. Arkansas committed 11 fouls in the first half before they were given a yellow card. That ... can't be OK with persistent infringement in the rules.

    Sigh, apologies, I don't mean to rant and I'm not really yelling at any one in particular here. Sometimes it just makes me feel better to get things off my chest by writing them and framing them into words.

    Ah, you're right. I double checked and realized I was being thrown off by Alabama's "scoring table" arrangement. I usually look for a table just sitting on the sideline as being the point which you can't cross into, but in this instance it's a much larger building that obscures the 10 yard stretch in comparison.

    You can see the 4th react to him after he realized he did step into the no go area when initially during the confrontation he did not (before Wes was pulled away). Do we think that this is why Nahas got his yellow? Certainly that would be worth while, but the non-equity part of it in the moment with what Wes Hart did is still ... annoying.
     
  11. Geko

    Geko Member

    Sacremento Geckos
    United States
    May 25, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    We want non-neutral officials?
    Obviously there are 1% outliers that get sniffed out very quickly, but I can't say this loud enough, and I really hope this winds up as my most repped comment on this forum:
    Referees truly do not give a damn who wins.
     
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  12. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    the neutrality you're referring to isn't what I was talking about, so maybe it wasn't the right way to articulate that. Wanting to appear neutral may be more accurate. A neutral official can go into that game against Arkansas and it's likely the Razorbacks have 30 odd fouls called against them by the end of the game. An official who wants to avoid appearing like they were favoring UNC or being harsh against Arkansas would avoid making all those calls, regardless of whether or not they were earned. It's what I think happened in that game (10+ fouls in the first, less than 5 in the second) and also what I think happened in the championship game vs UCLA last year. The officials got to half time, saw that they had called way more fouls against one team than the other, and then decided to loosen or change their standard.

    It's not about who wins or lose the game. It's about officials wanting to appear like they did a good job and were fair. A decision to try and avoid looking like they're influencing the game by *not* making important and necessary calls is a decision that can very much influence the game.
     
  13. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Much of what you say could be perceived by fans of UNC as issues of legitimate concern. However, much more so than in any professional, or even local competitions that we discuss here, college teams contract schedule their non-conference games. If there is a trend developing that UNC is worried about regarding playing SEC or other D1 teams outside the ACC, then the coach and AD should really consider if they want to be making those contracts.

    The rest of what you're talking about... women's soccer is maturing. It's become increasingly more competitive. There is more influx of foreign women with greater skill than before, and the influence of the men's game is starting to creep over bit by bit, but more so the growth and influence of NWSL is even more profound.

    Referees will have to adjust for sure... but so will those who watch these games and have come to expect something for three decades only to find new disruptors in the system trying to establish a new ground in which to displace a storied powerhouse and try to take that space for themselves.
     
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  14. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I ... don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying here, but it feels like we're talking about different things.

    I'm talking on the level of the current UNC team, the one that returned all but one starter from last year and has a core with a recent history of struggling to deal with physicality (especially if the officials allow it to happen). I'm not sure how far in advance agreements to play are made (part of me remembers Anson talks to some teams years in advance and says things like "if you come to us next year we'll come to you the year after"). Or it could even be that Anson knew that this team was struggling to deal with it and decided to schedule against tough opponents to test them. At that point I guess you'd say he's just hoping the officials step in before things get crazy and someone gets hurt. We've certainly had a few bumps and bruises along the way, Sam Meza missed some time. Our big target forward Olivia Thomas also got hurt late in the Alabama game and it ... didn't look good. I will say that I'm not sure if that's a connection that can be made because it appeared to be a non-contact injury. Even if she was beat up and fouled a lot in that game, I'm not sure that made the difference with how she came down funny while trying to make a play.

    How these kind of games lead to injuries and adds to the wear in tear in a condensed season is a whole other topic of discussion, but it's also a point of concern when talking about why NCAA officials let things get so physical. You can't officiate this league the same way you might the NWSL or Intl levels until these players have the same kind of rest and access to recovery those players do. This team played a difficult opponent in South Carolina at their place on Thursday, got 2 days rest, and then played another difficult opponent. UNC and Anson maybe can pick and choose their opponents, but they don't decided when games are played.
     
  15. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    I buy that the game has to be called for the game that it is, but a lot of this also comes down to coaching and players' decision-making. If they are suddenly choosing to play a more physical game there is only so much referees (as a group) can do to moderate that. (Not specifically saying UNC, but the teams they are contracting to play may take this approach).

    Agreed that the season is too compacted, 100%. It is the same every year though, it's always been so that's nothing new to anyone involved. This is why it is risky to put a lot of physical matchups in the pre-conference schedule. Another element is something that gridiron football has dealt with - there are more "conference" officiating groups now than there used to be so SEC has different folks than ACC and there is some overlap. There is a bit of a different emphasis on the training, although it's mostly similar messaging. One of the things that are different is the relationships that officials build with some teams more than ones that they don't see as often and while that should have no impact, it can have at least a subconscious effect on how officials and coaches perceive each other.

    What was stated above is true though. Not one college official I work with or I know is going to a game to screw over anyone... period. We don't care who wins. You know what we care about most... not putting big errors on tape. Because if the coach complains and the tape looks bad, the assignor can't defend it and that has a bigger impact on your ability to get more games in that league and that affects the bottom line and your perceived value as an official.
     
  16. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When you say "there's only so much a referee can do" to moderate a team that has obviously chosen to play a more physical game ... what do you mean by that? Are you referring to setting a standard early and then wanting to avoid changing that standard because a team starts to play differently mid game? I agree with that 100%.

    However I'm more referring to teams that start and end games with physicality on the mind. Arkansas in particular, from the very get, was obviously trying to send a message. Seems like that should be something an official can recognize and adjust to.

    Ah this also plays into a little bit of the conference alignment mess, only at the officiating level. I didn't buy in too much with the idea that different conference officials have differing standards, at least not to the extreme degree that most people seem to think. I didn't realize though that conferences were responsible for training? That ... seems like a can of worms.

    That being said, this is on a higher level again than what I was talking at. I'm more thinking about, say, how an official should change their officiating standard when they're doing a U13 girls game compared to an NWSL game. Technically the rules are the same, at least to my understanding they mostly are ... but certainly you change your approach with regard to physicality, yes? And if yes, I don't see why we can't also do that with College games knowing that it's a condensed schedule where overly physical play has a greater impact on the athletes than they would at different levels.

    and just like what was stated above I will reply that I'm not talking about officials have favorites or wanting one team to win or not. I'm talking about officials wanting to avoid APPEARING to have a favorite. If anything your sentiments in this paragraph reinforces my concern that officials might enter games worried TOO much about wanting to appear as neutral and unbiased as possible. So much so that the way that they officiate becomes biased and provides favor to one team. "I've called a lot of fouls against team A and I don't want to call too many more fouls against them than I do against team B so I'll loosen my standards and let more go."

    My example would be the Arkansas game. Say an official makes 30+ foul calls in that game and an Arkansas official complains that too many fouls were called against? Is that something someone looks at, sees the foul call count and ... what? Is that bad enough to influence what you're concerned about?
     
  17. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    lol, the SEC has soccer?
     
  18. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    This thread’s main topic was just supposed to be about a coach nearly aggressively entering the opponents technical area, and now it’s seemed to devolve into a rant about how your team is being unfairly targeted by overly physical play and criticisms directed towards the referees for not punishing the perceived physical play, that the referee just want to seem “unbiased” so they don’t call too many fouls happening against your team, enough to the point where others users think you’re claiming the refs are biased against your team

    This in addition to your thread a few weeks back where you came in claiming there’s no accountability for refs and more or less expecting perfection from them, it seems you’re using this forum as a soapbox to criticize referees rather than having a real discussion
     
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  19. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    #19 USSF REF, Sep 11, 2023
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 11, 2023
    Barbranski has new thinking SEC has two types of football.

    My point was more general about how much a referee can do. If your observation is increased physical play (by most, except UNC the bastion of technically sound and utterly fair play, it seems... ah hem... provoking opponent's with physical play much? https://justwomenssports.com/reads/duke-north-carolina-womens-soccer-double-bird/)... but if the women want to have a more physical game, referees generally are only going to be able to do so much to prevent this trend.

    Conference assignors sell themselves to the leagues who hire them in part by providing "their" Referees with training. NISOA provides training. NCAA provides some training, and conferences hold camps and webinars tob train their officials. The conference tells the assignors their concerns and the assignor or assigning group produces training content to match. For the most part, it's all pretty generic, aside from some intra conference specific stuff.

    NWSL is a higher level than NCAA D1. But, outside of that in the USA, there isn't much better level you can reach than playing in D1 women's. It's always been known to be a bit more physical. You could be right that referees are letting too much go, but I don't know that's what I'm seeing at the moment... maybe a little, but nothing too bad. Instead, it seems you're worried about teams exploiting a UNC team that doesn't like to get hit this early in the year. So why schedule those teams and also did unc never take a similar advantage over the years when they were almost always bigger and stronger? I don't watch enough Tarheel soccer to know, but I can speculate.

    Regarding high foul counts and trying to balance the game... I have no issue. My philosophy for all college is always, just call all the fouls. Some coaches and players don't like it but generally it courts less controversy. If a team is fouling more, that will show on the tape. But you better not miss anything in good faith or you will get worked to death over lack of consistency.
     
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  20. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're not wrong, and I already admitted as much that I was venting. I guess to that end it is my prerogative on an open forum to be able to vent as long as I'm following the rules of the forum, especially in a thread of my own making. I didn't mean to derail the conversation or mislead you into reading my rants, it just happened after the conversation at hand seemed to come to its conclusion. It is also your prerogative not to engage and respond if you don't like what I'm posting. I also don't see why I can't both vent but also engage in a real discussion. Despite what you say, there have been some *good* discussions mixed into the threads I have created. Mainly ones I'm not involved in but nevertheless they have existed. :D

    I will say that I'm not here to criticize referees, you, others, folks on this thread. My biggest issue is more the system that they work in and how influences them to officiate games in ways that aren't good for the beautiful game. The rules and their implementation can and should be improved to make it even more beautiful, and not necessarily because anybody thinks it's wrong or broken or because officials are bad at their jobs, but because any professional worth their salt should always be looking to improve.

    I've been watching and playing and yes, even officiating rec soccer for most of my 40 odd years. What major rule or system change has soccer been through that has stuck? Offside was changed in 1990. 1992 saw a rule change that prevented you from being able to pick up the ball with your hands as a goal keeper if it was deliberately kicked back to you. I vaguely remember a trial to have an official on the goal line. Then there was VAR which we're still not sure today will stick in its current implementation. What else? That's 30+ years of next to nothing.

    Every other major sport has had dramatic changes recently. Hockey as an example in 2006 dramatically changed interference rules to open the game up and allow for more scoring. Soon after they dramatically changed OT first to 4 skaters, then soon after 3 when they weren't satisfied with the product. Then in the 2010's they added two officials to the ice and implemented significant video review that dwarfs VAR standards. Significant changes in the rules interpretation when it came to contact to the head that had MAJOR impact on the sport. The list just goes on and on and that's just the last 20 years.

    Surely it wouldn't hurt to try *one* EPL or MLS season where a second official is on the field, maybe responsible for one half of the field and then gives the other official on the field another pair of eyes at a different angle when the ball goes to the other side of the field ... just like an AR.

    It feels less like soccer is struggling to move forward and more like it's being held back, and it's exasperating to someone who the sport means so much to and knows it can be made so much better if we would just .. try ... it doesn't have to always be right ... just ... try ..

    another rant ... I'm sorry. I think all the necessary questions from the initiial conversations have been answered so without direction I'm just ... yea. Thank you all for the answers and insight you have given.
     
  21. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Ugh... alright. I'll bite. What would you change the make the game more beautiful... HINT adding another referee doesn't do that. It was tested and roundly rejected... the size of the field screwed up the angles and proximity as opposed to the far smaller Ice Hockey surface.

    Since 2000 here are some changes per Wikipedia include:
    • 2000 – The four-step restriction on the goalkeeper handling the ball is repealed and replaced by the "six-second rule": the goalkeeper may not handle the ball for more than six seconds. The goalkeeper may no longer be charged while holding the ball.
    • 2004 – The golden goal rule is eliminated.
    • 2012Goal-line technology permitted (but not required).
    • 2016 – The kick-off may be kicked in any direction.
    • 2018Video assistant referees permitted (but not required). A fourth substitution is permitted in extra time.[21]
    • 2019Goals scored by hand, whether accidental or not, are disallowed. Attacking players can no longer interfere in defensive walls during free kicks. Substituted players have to leave the field at the nearest goal line or touchline instead of walking to their technical area. Goal kicks put the ball into play immediately (instead of having to leave the penalty area). Team officials can also be cautioned or dismissed. During penalties, goalkeepers are only required to keep one foot on the line. The dropped ball is no longer competitive, instead being dropped for the defensive goalkeeper if in the penalty area, otherwise for the team which last touched the ball.[22][23][24][25]
    Other changes off the top of my include: Eliminating the triple punishment on PK/DOGSO/RC, Adding two more subs in general in 3 windows... concussion sub protocol... increasing stoppage time... myriad changes to the handball law which is partly mentioned above. They are always tinkering but rarely are they trying to fundamentally change the game.

    Most of these are cosmetic. Some are not. But, what does the game really need to change to be better? If you want to fix the PK sanction to be used less frequently or maybe change the size and shape of the penalty area, that might be good.

    Why? Because the sport is played by so many countries. the NHL makes its own rules, as do all of the major North American sports. You can't go making radical changes to world wide sports with all youth, amateur, and professional games in the entire world being impacted, as opposed to a single closed league. You want MAJOR CHANGE - get a small private league to do it that isn't affiliated to FIFA/IFAB, or doesn't try to match those laws.
     
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  22. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    lol I didn't think I worded it in a way for there to be something to "bite", but thank you for the reply anyway. That entire vent was less looking for something specific to change and more just wanting to see more effort to improve the game in general. I don't care in particular what they changed in what order, I just wanted to see more concerted effort to improve. It's a rather extreme position to take to think good changes can't be made beyond just "tinkering". There's a middle ground between your "tinkering" and the major fundamental changes to the game that would require a test league.

    Perhaps there are limitations compared to other sports when you take the scope of soccer in consideration, but I'm not so sure hockey is the best example. They also have a world wide governing body that also has a set of rules it uses for international tournaments. There not terribly different from the NHL and with everything I've heard when something changes in the nhl that is generally well liked and received, the IIHF usually adopts it and vice versa. I know the relationship between the NHL and the IIHF is way different than the one for FIFA, domestic leagues, and the NCAA, but ... the example is set. I feel like that might lead into a whole different kind of conversation about how much control FIFA has over domestic leagues in those regards, but I don't wanna go there.

    I've seen a lot of references to the two referee experiment that officials continuously cite as being a complete failure. Do you have more information I can read about that? I can't seem to find anything on my own beyond the AR experiment on the goal lines in UEFA that hasn't gone anywhere.

    but if I'm being completely honest ... no shit you wouldn't like that. Pardon my language, but when it comes to the idea of splitting control of a game between two officials the person whose opinion I would be the *most* skeptical of would be the officials. When the NHL did it the officials in that league raged and complained and decried the end is nigh endlessly because of course they did. The intuitive and common sense reasoning behind the failure of the two referee experiment is that the powers that be didn't want to pay more money to officials per game and the officials didn't want to split duties and give up control per game. Of course I want to read about it more, but for now that's what my intuition is telling me.

    as for what I would like to see? I like going back to the 2006 sweeping changes the NHL implemented and would love to see something similar for soccer. Wide ranging changes to improve the number of attacking chances, increase goal scoring, etc etc. Offside could be changed to allow over the back, let players have a chance to get back on side before play can continue, and even make it so that offside is only called if the offside player was the player to score, with "influencing the play" having their own set of similar rules as well.

    I'd see more clearly defined and tighter enforced rules as to what is and isn't a physical foul. They're too vague and open to interpretation for me in the IFAB rule book. Things like players smashing into the back of another player while the later is trying to shield the play out of bounds needs to go entirely, imo. Positioning isn't rewarded enough in the game right now.

    I'm wary of changing anything in the 18 slash PK department unless it improves the *attacking* football. I do think the current set up could use a tweak as it can feel very harsh sometimes with PK's, but it's a conundrum without any obvious solution or even obvious tweak to try.
    Perhaps limit the number of defending players who can be in the 18 at any given time? Maybe instead of the 18 limit how many defenders can be in a half.

    Hopefully you get the generally idea of the kind of changes I'd like to see. Open the game up and increase the attacking action! Gosh I sound like a little kid reading that out loud, but hey, I think you understand what I'm going for ...
     
  23. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    This is from the Criticism/Accountability thread a few weeks ago but I think it's still germane here. Two refs was a change in hockey, yes, but like football and baseball and basketball the officiating is more scientific than in soccer (at least for 2023/24). The reason we resist adding a second on-field ref is based, for many of us, in real-live, live-fire experience as dual referees. I can think of nobody here who has done it and prefers it over the standard 3-man/DSC (Diagonal System of Control).

     
  24. soccerref69420

    soccerref69420 Member+

    President of the Antonio Miguel Mateu Lahoz fan cub
    Mar 14, 2020
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea DPR
    Time for another addition to the list
     
  25. babranski

    babranski Member+

    Dec 15, 2012
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    are there any non-referee opinions about the two referee experiment that is cited so much that I can read about?

    @soccerref69420 wasn't I on your list already? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
     

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