In my opinion, Rochester in MLS? NO CHANCE

How's Moose Jaw? I've always wondered what that town is like.

 

Yeah Oliver, how is Moose Jaw?

 

I'm more of a Medicine Hat person myself, but Moose Jaw sounds interesting as well.

 

I don't know harry, the french are @$$holes.

 

What did Toronto's crowds look like last season?

 

Jim Bob,

You know he's got a point there. Forget the market raitings, do you really think DuRoss will pursue MLS?

 

Once the money pits are gone.

 

Whether or not Frank and company want to spend the money to move up to MLS now or in the future is the only topic worth discussing at this point.

Rhinos ownership has been very frank lately about how they don't feel that the economics of joining MLS right now don't fit what they are looking for. And, MLS doesn't feel that PTP sans Phase II is a fit for them at this point.

Feel free to question the depth of the owners' pockets.

But, I think questioning the fanbase is a mistake.

The Blitzz obviously didn't draw anywhere near what RSL did this year.

And MLS and MLSE had better hope that an MLS team draws a whole lot better than the Lynx ever have.

 

MLSE and MLS have nothing to worry about. Lynx spend 395.00 in total a year to promote thier team. MLSE is a billion dollar corporation. Enough said.

 

How is that working for MLSE with regards to the Raptors?

Not everything MLSE touches turns to gold.

And Toronto is a very finicky sports market outside of the Maple Laughs.

Just look at the downturn in attendance both the Argos and Blue Jays have seen since their glory days have passed.

Honestly, I think Toronto will be a market that struggles mightily as the hard core soccer fans in the city prefer to spend their money on PPV European matches as opposed to spending money to see a lower quality product.

 

The raptors still draw over 16K per game, the Argos are in the 40K range per game and climing, The jays are 25 k +. Teams will go up and down.

Toronto will do fine in MLS and will also draw well for PPV Europe. We are a Major League city. Perioed. Who was voted Minor League town USA?
MLS is best soccer USA Canada, its not USL DIV 1 minor leaue soccer.

 

I agree that I do not foresee Rochester ever coming into MLS.

Although Rochester satisfies the 3 MLS requirements (committed local ownership, strong local fan base, and SSS) if MLS is only going to expand by only 6-8 more teams then they are gonna likely want to fill those spots in larger media markets. (e.g Philadelphia, Atlanta, Houston) The reason is that way they can demand more money for national sponsorships and TV rights fees.

I think Rochester's chances improve if MLS decides to grow beyond 18-20 teams or if MLS has trouble over the next 5-10 years getting clubs established in those larger markets.

 

Commited local owners who dont have MLS type money.

 

But is Rochester a larger 'soccer' market than the three cities you gave as examples and other cities besides?
I believe I'm right in thinking Rochester regularly gets 10 000 plus crowds in USL and is an established soccer town. Surely a team in a city of 250 000 with 10 000 fans is better than a team in a city of 2500 000 with 7 000 soccer fans.

 

I still think it's good for MLS to carve out a niche following in HUGE markets like NY, LA and Chicago if they can do so, soccer gets totally lost in these same markets and oftentimes dwarfed by the other major sports.

As an amateur NASL historian, I'll say that the lack of major league sports in the 70s in Vancouver, Seattle, Tampa, San Jose, Tulsa contributed to the success of the NASL in those cities. The league filled a void and those cities embraced the sport. In stark contrast, some large cities that had Major League Baseball, NFL, NBA et al, were a complete wash in the old NASL-- hmmm.... Philadelphia, Atlanta and Houston???... where are my stats?!?... oh, here goes...

1979 NASL Bottom 6 of 24 teams in avg per game attendance:
Chicago Sting 8,062 per game
Atlanta Chiefs 7,350
Memphis Rogues 7,137
New England (Boston) Tea Men 6,562
Houston Hurricane 6,212
Philadelphia Fury 5,624
NASL leaguewide avg attendance: 14,201

1980 NASL Bottom 5 of 24 teams in avg per game attendance:
California (Anaheim) Surf 7,593 per game
Dallas Tornado 6,752
Houston Hurricane 5,818
Atlanta Chiefs 4,884
Philadelphia Fury 4,465
NASL leaguewide avg attendance: 14,443
(Houston and Philadelphia then folded/moved)

1981 NASL Bottom 4 of 21 teams in avg per game attendance:
Toronto Blizzard 7,287 per game
Atlanta Chiefs 6,189
Los Angeles Aztecs 5,814
Dallas Tornado 4,670
NASL leaguewide avg attendance: 14,084
(Atlanta then moved)

Point is, I'll take successful higher profile teams in midsized or small markets like Columbus, Salt Lake City, Rochester and Tulsa (couldn't resist) over larger markets that have low profile teams with weak fan support in Boston, San Jose, Kansas City, and Miami.

 

http://www.canoe.ca/Argos/News/2005/08/18/1178878.html

Yup, the Argos are at 40k per game and rising.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Basketball/NBA/Toronto/2005/09/14/1216484-sun.html

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TOR/attend.shtml

The Blue Jays drew about half the fans that they did when they were winning the WS in 92 & 93 and ranked 11th out of the 14 AL clubs.

Toronto is a hockey townm first and foremost.

After that, people may come out at first, but they'll only keep coming if the product is really, really good.

 

Rod Tidwell, errrrrrrr, Don Garber only cares about the size of one thing: a potential owner's bank account.

 

Thats for sure. The last thing he needs is owners who cant afford to be in the Leauge. You need big money to be in MLS. Rochester does not have a proper size park for MLS(Peatac is to small for MLS) or an owner who can foot the bill.

 

And that's a bad thing because..............?

 

Someone needs to explain it to NASLNUT that we in Rochester already know this and that his efforts at trolling is not getting anywhere.

 

Since when is stating facts trolling?

 

It's the dead horse you keep beating that is giving you away.

 

Ummm, so I guess the Rapids' new park is too small for MLS as well, huh?

 

As far as what Garber wants, I wish he'd just come out and admit it rather than do the little song and dance he's been doing for years.

But he is getting closer with his latest "early bird special" for the 14th MLS club who's expansion fee is $15 million until December 31st, 2005 at which time the price is supposedly going to go way higher.