News: Impact Sub - OGS The New Gaffer Thread

Discussion in 'Manchester United' started by Ashur, Dec 19, 2018.

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  1. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I dont believe so - I dont think the Glazers and Ed would have spent around 50m on a striker this summer for any manager. We signed a free player in Cavani and even he was replacing a #9 we sold 12 months earlier (ie we went much of a year without a proper #9 and had to make a cheap temp loan signing in Jan with Ighalo).

    These constraints will be here for every manager.
     
  2. SF19

    SF19 Member+

    Jun 8, 2013
    If it was Guardiola or Klopp, I'm not so sure they would ever agree to coach United without assurances they would be given the players they want.

    I think that would be true of Naglesmann too. If United were to hire Naglesmann as manager, then I'm guessing Ragnick would become technical director (putting him in charge of recruitment). Neither believe football should be played by sitting deep like Ole did against City; instead, they would want to press high against City. For that to work, they'll need to make changes to the squad and it could mean a lot of changes. If he were in charge, it simply wouldn't work any other way.

    In saying that, United do have a good squad under Ole and are capable of results, but it just means playing the way Mourinho would have. Judging by how things are shaping up, I think United will probably keep Ole and paper over the cracks with the signing of Cristiano. It would almost be like the Bulls signing Michael Jordan back. Between Covid-19 and Liverpool's injury issues, if Cristiano were to come in the winter I think he could propel United to a title this season even with Ole as manager.
     
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  3. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  4. Amdrag

    Amdrag Member+

    Jun 10, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I still don't think Ole should be our long term manager, but it is interesting to see our recent run, where I feel like us not taking a 3 points against Leicester was legit disappointing. I feel like we should be winning every time now, which is definitely an improvement.

    What I am really interested in seeing is how Ole has been treated in comparison to Arteta and Lampard. We can talk about the talent gap for Arsenal or how Lampard has a lot of egos to deal with, but both guys are under performing with the squads they have. Where it seems Ole's squad is finding it's level, above the others. Even with how loaded Chelsea are.
     
  5. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Very good point regarding the recent club hero turned manager trio. I think it is because Ole has shown more flashes in the pan regarding looking competent. Ole just needs a DoS on the level of who ever they have at Leicester (I mean they have found, sold and replaced McGuire, Kante and Mihraz, with ease) and a good tactical coach, Quieroz mk2 and he is on his way.
     
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  6. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really want to be excited by our team (and there is really a lot to be excited about tbh). But it's all so tight at the top and things can flip on a dime, that I'm trying my bvest to hold it in at the moment.
    Been saying for a while that the new year will be a good time to gauge where we are. I'm still holding true to that, but looking at it closer, the real dateline for me will be Jan 17th, after we've played Pool. If we can come out of this game and they're still within reach and have a reasonable bill of health in regards to the squad, then probably then, I will allow myself to get actually gassed.
    Like what I've seen from Ole recently, not just in terms of the results, but also our style of play. And he deserves credit for his man management skills: I really applaud how he's handled the Pogba situation. After what happened recently, it would have been easy to completely ostracize him. But to his credit, he recognized that he still had to deal with him for the next few months at least and that when he wants to play, he's just an asset that can help the team. Not sure how many managers who would have handled things as well, while managing to get some good displays from the player in the process.
    It's been often said though, this is a crazy season and there are opportunities there for the taking. The squad is not perfect, but it's a pretty strong one nonetheless. And with a little luck, then who knows what can happen this season. Today was a bit of a setback on our recent momentum and we need to try and get it back Tuesday vs Wolves and just keep going after that. We'll see then what happens...
     
  7. JC7rox

    JC7rox Member+

    Manchester United FC, LAFC
    Jun 11, 2004
    West Coast, Cali!
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    A lot of us feel this way. Sometimes, you (or others) would take it as an Ole defense but it’s always been more the case of “Ole’s probably not the guy but he will do for right now.” The way this club is run, I don’t know how much sense it is going to make to keep switching out managers every time the well runs dry. Ole is doing decent. The time will come when United have to up the ante. But the direction it is moving in right now is fine. You see progress in the work.
     
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  8. Amdrag

    Amdrag Member+

    Jun 10, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    What I see is the waste of talent with a dude who I know is likely going to blow it. One thing that really bothers me is one day this team is capable of winning something, but the next the squad is considered utter trash and thus little expectations are put on it, outside of on the individuals and the board. Ole's mismanagement of the squad (Maguire's minutes, use of Martial) and poor tactics are ignored almost in their entirety outside of a small mention, before the dumping on players and the Glazers (who suck), is done.

    I see this with Arsenal fans with Arteta, though of course they are worse then us. But it is the exact same situation where anything good from the squad is placed on him, and anything bad is blamed on the board and the players.

    This team is good enough to win this premier league this season. But such expectations are only placed on the players and the board, not Ole. Our home record is a special kind of bad and if not for it, we'd be in first place. That's on Ole and his extremely poor tactics when counter attacking isn't on the cards. How good Liverpool will eventually be is irrelevant in this regard, because Ole has continually failed to start this season thus letting them off the hook after they have dropped 11 out of a possible 42 already. How we were knocked out of the CL was another example of this. Where it became, "well look how tough the group is", because the issue clearly was once we were in a position to progress we proved more then capable of beating those teams and the only reason we didn't progress is because of the crap show Ole put on three different times.

    As to chopping and changing managers. That is modern football. Chelsea continually do it, and win much more regularly then we do. If they think Lampard isn't going to get it done, they will ax him. Bayern were thought to have a blah squad last season, until they changed managers. Then they set the world on fire in a way few clubs ever have. It didn't change the issues with their squad, Flick made it work. Pioli has suddenly resurrected Milan, making their talent look like they are on another level then they were perceived before. The last decade of Madrid has been quite the example of this.

    We can be good enough right now. The situation with the league allows that. The likelihood of another 100 point haul being what is needed is almost gone. Something around 90 points is more realistic, and there is no reason this squad can't achieve it. Not when we see those form tables that show us over an extended period of time. Yes the squad is lacking in some areas, but it is also loaded in others which Ole needs to take advantage of. But if we don't take advantage of that, Ole will get little to no blame. This is fundamentally different then the outlook the fans had with much better managers in LvG and Jose. There was talk that it didn't matter if we got someone like Poch, because the squad isn't good enough. If the squad is capable of this form with Ole, where is the logic that a better manager couldn't make us better in terms of consistency? There is nothing to suggest about Ole's career so far that he is elite, so why wouldn't that be true?
     
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  9. MizzouMUFC

    MizzouMUFC Member+

    Apr 10, 2010
    Places
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    I've been critical of Ole at times but in the end I want him to succeed. I think a fair criticism of him is...

    Pros
    - Good man manager
    - Good eye for talent and knows what our best 11 is most of the time
    - Ruthless when it comes to clearing out players he doesn't want
    - Clear vision for the style he wants us to play, but doesn't have the roster or tactical knowledge to pull it off all the time.
    - Has the old United are invincible DNA and is trying to find players that have that mentality.

    Cons
    - Doesn't know tactics for dick
    - Doesn't rotate enough (getting a little better in this regard)
    - Too much of a yes man to too brass
    - Shit at getting the team motivated

    Out of his hands
    - Transfers. We were progressing and bringing in some decent talent and then the board pulled the plug like always.

    IMO, Ole can work here long term but he needs a tactician to map out games. He's clueless in this regard. I will give him credit however for typically making good in game moves once he sees what's going wrong. While I may have called for his head at times, I think our current position is about right given the level of talent we have.
     
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  10. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    This could belong on the season thread too but I would hope management, his fellow coaches, SAG, a friend or commonsense has a word with Ole. We are fighting on 4 fronts and dont have nearly enough manpower for it. For the ELFC and the FAC, we need to play the seconds. With Cavanni out, we should look to play James, Greenwood and Ighalo, these next two games, maybe even Mata and Lins. In the midfield give Donnie a run with Matic and rotate the 8, maybe have Donnie play 8 and a Lins at 10. In the back give Harry a rest and get Axel, maybe Tendi a run with TFM and BW some game time.
     
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  11. Father Ted

    Father Ted BigSoccer Supporter

    Manchester United, Galway United, New York Red Bulls
    Nov 2, 2001
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #1086 Father Ted, Jan 1, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2021
    Agree. The likes of Fernandes, Rashford and Maguire badly need a rest. Something like...
    Henderson
    Williams-Tuanzebe-Menji-Telles
    Matic-VDB
    Mata-Lingard-James
    Greenwood
     
  12. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    That would definitely work for me.
     
  13. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  14. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  15. doubletrouble

    doubletrouble Member+

    Manchester United
    Saint Kitts and Nevis
    Dec 16, 2003
    St.Kitts
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    St. Kitts and Nevis
    The moment we go on a bad run this level of bragging goes away and the he's learning and not back excuses come out
     
  16. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Our fans have been desperate to be relevant again for so long that any morsel of competence is being celebrated
     
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  17. jnielsen

    jnielsen Member+

    May 12, 2012
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Interesting who are the top 6 at this point of the season.
     
  18. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
  19. Deadtigers

    Deadtigers Member+

    Jul 23, 2015
    Independent Republic of the Bronx, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ghana
    Attack, attack, attack!!
     
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  20. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  21. Ashur

    Ashur Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    May 31, 2015
    Riding off into the sunset
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    That Bruno effect...
     
  22. Amdrag

    Amdrag Member+

    Jun 10, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    So I want to go over the rotation argument again, as our players look incapable of moving out there come the latter half of a season for the third season in a row. I understand the argument that our squad isn't good enough, but this has never been a question of talent. Of course your subs aren't as talented. The point is you still play them a few at a time, reserving your whole first team for certain matches. What is the point of playing the first team all the way into the ground before you have to make the changes do to them being too tired to function or they become injured anyway? In that case, what you end up doing is playing subpar players, with first teamers who are also subpar because they are too tired to play to a decent level.

    Ole ran out first teamers for two matches a week over and over again in the league, league cup, FA cup, and Europa League. Now he has had a dead tired squad for over a month, with more then two months left to go. We are most likely going to end up with no silverware, and well a real chance we fall out of the top 4. How is this a good plan?
     
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  23. johno

    johno Member+

    Jul 15, 2003
    in the wind
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    I'd like to heap some praise on Ole for a tactical masterclass against City.

    City played well and they created a lot of shots, but few big chances and they relied on players other than KDB and Gundogan to create chances which really hampered their ability.

    I noted that some people here and online criticized the positioning of Fred and McTominay while defending. They were wide, seemingly inviting KDB and Gundo into dangerous positions. Pep's system is designed to make use of angles to play diagonal through balls into the path of runners. Those passes are a lot harder to make from interior positions unless the runners go away from goal.

    Then the way he asked our WFs to play narrow they allowed Cancelo and Rodri to control play, but not to get up a head of steam to run into the gap between our CMs.

    Ole absolutely has some tactical flaws but he's really really good at stopping the other team doing what they do best. If he was Arteta or Tuchel he'd get more praise for it.
     
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  24. J'can

    J'can Member+

    Jul 3, 2007
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    This game reminded me of the Barca game years ago when scholes got the winner. Chess game it was and so was this.
     
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  25. Sofabloke

    Sofabloke Member+

    Dec 24, 2003
    Mu
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Ole actually has a decent head-to-head record against managers of the bigger clubs.

    Looks like Mou / Arteta are the two he needs to improve his record against. Hopefully we can do something against Spurs in April (we owe them).

    Got this info here, hopefully is accurate;

    https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ole-gunnar-solskjaer/bilanztrainer/trainer/7286

    Pep .... P8 W4 D1 L3
    Lampard. P5 W3 D1 L1
    Tuchel . P5 W2 D1 L2
    Klopp .. P5 W1 D3 L1
    Acelotti P4 W2 D2 L0
    Rodgers .P4 W2 D1 L1
    Mourinho P4 W1 D1 L2
    Arteta ..P3 W0 D1 L2
    Poch ... P2 W2 D0 L0
     

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