Impact of Nations Leagues (UEFA original, Concacaf) on World Football? [Multiple R]

If they only chose a better coach. So funny alot in England seriously suggest Sarina Wiegman should take the helm of that squad.

 

Tbh Southgate was never getting fired for making a Euro final, even if you also blame him for losing said final. And tbf I thought they did fine at WC 2022, they had plenty of chances against France, just couldn't put it in the back of the net (most notably with Kane's pk miss).

 

But that goes back to the point that their squad is totally stacked!

For me, its a bit of a mystery how Southgate got the job in the first place. I agree with you in the sense that there aren't many results that would justify firing him. But those same results don't convince anyone that he's a good manager either.

The worst thing that could happen to England in the short term is that they cruise through Euro qualifying and cruise to the semis or final of the Euros before losing to the first top team that they encounter (again). Because then the FA will feel obligated to stick with Southgate for another 2 years, which could likely ruin their best chance to win a World Cup since '66.

 

I still can't assess how much do NTs care about Nations League. I mean, they obviously care about winning the last 4 when they are there (and it showed), but I am talking about the group stage.

Both England and France didn't take it seriously last time around, hell England got relegated without winning a game, yet I still think they have (along with France) the best squad in Europe.

At the moment, I will be surprised if anyone else wins bar those win the Euros. Of course, there are other contenders like Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Croatia, but they seem like a step below France & England.

 

Yeah, I'm not so sure about those format changes though. I get the desire to have the spotlight on the NL for more than just 3 months plus 1 week every two years but having pro/rel playoffs in the midst of World Cup qualifying seems a bit messy and counterproductive.

I say 'counterproductive' because given their timing, I wonder to what extent teams will treat these playoffs as friendlies. Especially the ones in March. It also puts teams on thin ice when it comes to qualifying for the World Cup. Not sure I'd be comfortable starting WCQ as late as Sept 2025 and having it all come down to six matches.

 

National team coaches do. They used those friendlies to test out new players/tactics etc. Now they're forced to win those matches.

 

I have been saying this all along.

 

But do we care? Its the same for every manager.

In club football managers have to cope with trying things during meaningful matches. Teams don't get to play 4 friendlies and another 2 matches against Gibraltar-level opposition before a two-legged contest in Champions League.

And there are still friendlies, just not a plethora of them.

 

Yes I do care, because unlike national team coaches, club managers have their players all the time at their disposal and (at least over here) play friendlies during the season against amateur clubs or pro clubs from the Netherlands and sometimes from Belgium often behind closed doors.
On top of that they got a whole summer to prep their players for the new season, including CL matches.

 

Ok, fair enough. Some care I guess.

But there are still friendlies. The past couple of years were kind of exceptional with the need to catch-up on WC 2022 qualifying fixtures because of COVID. And then 2022 was messed-up because of the winter World Cup, which eliminated at least one FIFA window. There will be a decent dose of friendlies again starting in 2024.

 

One of the important goals of friendlies was the confrontations with countries from other continents to play against oppositions with a similar style of the countries you would be in the group stages. That now proves to be a problem.

 

To be honest I think the closed shop of UEFA teams playing each other in Euro qualifiers, world cup qualifiers and nations league will be to their detriment in the long term, particularly to those just behind the superpowers in ability. Exposure to different playing styles is an important step in improvement on the world stage. The best two or three in Uefa will always challenge for trophies on the world stage, but I think more of the second tier teams will struggle to reach R16 and quarter finals as time goes on.

 

Meh, no one is improving their football just by occasionally playing Mexico or Nigeria or Japan in some meaningless friendly where both teams sub off half the team at halftime. They can play a friendly or two before the WC for "exposure", there's nothing mystical about non-UEFA teams that they are missing out on by skipping out on friendlies.

 

A closed shop can go one of two ways, and in sport it usually means a drop in competitiveness. Mid level Euro teams only playing mid level Euro teams like in the nations league will only lead to complacency, as a number of teams who thought they had easy draws found out in Qatar.

 

Yet UEFA sides often did even worse in WCs before the Nations League. In WC 2014 (last WC outside Europe prior to 2022), 6 of 13 UEFA teams advanced out of the group stage. Only 4 reached the QFs. In 2022, 8 of 13 made it to R16, and 5 reached the QFs.

 

and I think with the nations league their record will get worse. We shall see who is right over the next 2 or 3 cycles (if I'm still around that long).

 

1) Its not a closed shop. Friendlies are still happening.

2) Its not just playing teams at your own level. Aside from the fact that there's a decent range in quality within each "league" of the NL, the NL group stage also only impacts 3 FIFA windows every 2-year cycle. During the other 7 windows UEFA teams are playing against teams that range from the very best down to San Marino in qualifiers.

 

Right. Its not like the Red Army ice hockey team pre-1990. There are unique playing styles that are prevalent outside Europe that don't exist inside Europe.

 

I completely disagree with this, and I'm with Almango.

It's not about "improving" your soccer. It's about being exposed to different teams, who play different ways.

Style matchups and different dynamics play a major part in success on the world stage.

I can tell you for a fact that back in the day when top African teams had little experience playing European or South American sides, the struggled against them. Now that they've been quite exposed to them, not so much.

Senegal just trashed Brazil the other day. That never could have happened if Senegal was not exposed to playing those kind of teams and only played teams within Africa.

The opposite is also true, particularly for 2nd tier Euro sides. They didn't do particularly well in Qatar.

 

Having 5 UEFA teams fail to pass the WC group stage is completely normal. And in any case, 2 of those that exited early are 1st-tier Euro sides.

I wouldn't be totally shocked if not playing UEFA sides hurts teams from CAF, AFC, etc. But then again, your e.g. of Senegal beating Brazil supports the opposite argument than the one you are making. Senegal has hardly played anyone outside CAF in their last 20-30 fixtures, apart from the 2022 WC itself.

 

Senegal played Brazil in 2019. Again would Senegal have beaten Brazil 4-2 without the experience of having played them already ? Who knows, I sort of doubt it. Same reason things can be so competitive in Conmebol qualifying, because the teams are used to playing each other all the time.

A good number of the Senegal players had experience from the 2018 WC as well, where they also played friendlies against Croatia and Korea prior to that.

Football today is about tiny margins. Every little thing can give you a boost. I think being exposed to different styles and teams with different strengths and weaknesses is a plus. Not saying it is the be all and end all, but it definately helps I would say.

And not that there are not of course different styles within Europe or Africa, but being exposed to the greatest number of styles is good.

I dont think there are many, if any trams in the world that would play every team the same way and not adapt in one way or another to different opposition.