impact of Ajax Orlando on player development

You are about right.

Ajax are doing this for their own selfish reasons. The US has an unlimited supply of athletes, and Ajax can make something out of these kids. The MLS will hurt on some top name talent being signed. It will be interesting to see if Ajax will try to sneak into the MLS as a club. We might even hear of talk of the MLS looking at Orlando as an expansion possibility. Mexico is trying to get into the MLS, so why not Ajax. I'd rather have Ajax training than Club America or Chivas.

 

The jury is still out...

There's a ton of questions here and not many answers. For instance...
1) Could this possibly be a for-profit type academy, like the non-Nike part of IMG? That's what I think it is.
2) An academy doesn't turn out finished players. Bradenton turns out a few P-40's and a lot of college players. What's Ajax gonna do with all these players?
3) Isn't there an international rule against someone under 18 signing a contract with a foreign club? What's to stop a player coming through the Ajax system and signing with MLS or another European club?
4) This seems like a tremendous investment for maybe one or two good but not-ready-for-prime-time players per year. If Ajax is recruiting for their Dutch team, do they really think they can make a profit?
5) What's to stop the U-17's and other US youth teams from calling up the best Ajax players for tournaments? Would a good player want to be in the Ajax program if he's not going to get international youth experience?

Until we receive more information, this whole thing is in the dark. I can tell you this--I seriously doubt that ODP and other youth development efforts in the US are going to put up with a foreign club coming and trying to outright steal players from their programs. I don't have any of the answers but I think it will get interesting.

 

My understanding, at the moment, is that this for the time being is more of a former Orlando Youth club manager using contacts and influence, to work out a mutually beneficialy arrangement between he and Ajax.

At the moment, I probably wouldn't read the current club as an arm of Ajax, but rather as a separate entity borrowing its name and coaching techniques for some unnamed price (not necessarily money).

 

A pre-existing team (Orlando Football Academy) simply signed an agreement with Ajax, and took on their name & logo... nothing devious here...

From what I understand, a PDL team starts operations this year, and next year they have signed with the A-League...

While the team itself is affiliated and supported by AjaxAmsterdam, any players signed (Dax McCarty being the first) will belong solely to AjaxOrlando, and any players the Dutch team wants will have to be signed and transferred legally, just like a transfer between any other 2 teams (affiliated or not)...

Here's more if you're interested....

 

Ajax Orlando

This effort is about equal parts -

1) Quick cash flow (i.e., marketing pricey summer camps to parents of U.S. youth soccer)

2) Long-term recruiting roots, so as to get more John O'Briens

3) Long-term marketing roots, so as to sell more Ajax merchandise into the lucrative U.S. marketplace

Yes, Ajax wants to find a good U.S. player or two, but don't be fooled into thinking that this is a pure player-development effort. Not by any means, as with the MLS player programs Ajax will be "pay to play" -- i.e., if you want your young talent to be identified by Ajax, fork out your summer camp fees so that they'll have a looksee.

 

Ajax Orlando trivia

Ajax Orlando will develop a worldclass coaching staff, just like Ajax Amsterdam, which is recognized as one of the top ten youth development systems in the world.

The New Ajax Techincal Director, Wim Surbeer (SP) is a retired world class Dutch national player, no Ellinger he, Wim is a 'for-real' world class legend.

Ajax, like most professional soccer teams, plays soccer for money, gross revenues are over 50 million dollars per year, placing them among the top 30 monreymaking soccer corporations in the world. This income, enables them to field U15,16,17,19,21, reserve and senior teams, over 400 players either on scholarships or payroll.

Ajax top players are making 1.5 million per year, guys like John o'Brien are making 750M or better.

Ajax developed players like Van De Vaart will sell for 20 million euros, probably to Barcelona, a traditionally Dutch coached team. King Johan Cruyff ring a bell? Having Ajax in the U.S. is a huge benefit for all.

Alax orlando is organizing U15, 16,17, PDL, and A league teams. They do not want an MLS team, as, like MLS they, Ajax, own the contracts. They've stated that they're planning to build an approximately 5000 seater stadium in Florida.

American youth stars developed by Ajax Orlando have multiple opportunities to play in Holland, or elsewhere in Europe, as there are Dutch coaches active in almost everi one of the top 8 soccer countries in the world.

Ajax Orlando is much more of a blessing, than a competitor.

 

This is terrific. We live in a competitive society. A better product or service will soon force others to adapt or fall by the wayside. I hope that Ajax Orlando really follows the Amsterdam model as a rigorous academy. A lot of American youth clubs talk the talk, but very few walk the walk of establishing a true soccer environment with kids who really want to be there and play and train consistently throughout the year under the watchful guidance of professionals who truly understand soccer and the stages of child development. It may be some time before we see the fruits of their labors, but my suggestion to the rest of the youth club coaches is to take heed.

 

Re: Ajax Orlando trivia

When Ajax comes to my town asking for $$$ so that my son can attend its "evaluation" summer camp, I'm wondering, now is this how they do it in Holland?

Methinks no.

 

Ajax has a team playing in South Africa. they bought a team over there and renamed it Ajax(I think Cape Town). Right now, the MLS rules regarding player transfer, youth dvelopement, salary cap, allotement and etc are too complicated for Ajax to understand. Sooner or later, they will be a MLS team.

 

They're also too complicated for most MLS teams to understand as well. In fact sometimes it appears that there aren't really any hard and fast rules at all.

 

John R

In Amsterdam, ( and Capetown,) thousands of kids come to tryouts and 'evaluation' camps for Ajax each half season.

An Ajax youth team graduate, which includes John o'Brien, who went there at age 16, and received a fabulous ecducation, both academically and soccer wise, has a shot, just like John o'Brien to be a millionaire at age 24, playing for one of the top teams in the world.

John o'Brien has been averaging a half a million dollars a year in income since age 22, currently makes in the neighborhood of 800-850K

Not too bad, if your son becomes one of them. Could be a 22 year old millionaire in your house in the future.

Of course, there are other great opportunities also, including MLS, note Brad Friedel, Columbus Crew, who has been making over a million dollars a year.

 

Impact of Ajax orlando

My guess as to the impact Ajax Orlando will have on soccer here.....

NIL

 

That's all fine and good, but his point holds, if this was the same set up as in Amsterdam, they wouldn't be hitting him up for cash if his kid wants to train with them.

This country does a farily good job of training kids who can afford to pay for it. Could do better, of course, but not bad. The problem is that the kids who can't pay for it have very little in the way of opportunity for that kind of training. Unfortunately Ajax Orlando doesn't appear to be addressing that issue any more than anyone else.

As a result, other than a famous Dutch coach, for all the talk of a revolutionary change, Ajax Orlando seems like a whole lot more of them same old, same old WRT youth soccer.

 

Yup.

The Chicago Tribune is running a series of articles on U.S. club basketball. Coaches spending their free time scouring the streets, looking for talent. When they find that talent, they invite the kids to play on their teams. No tuition. No tryout fees. In fact, just the opposite -- enticements of free shoes, travel, etc.

Ajax Orlando, on the other hand, is "scouting" by giving parents the opportunity to spend several hundred dollars on "evaluation" summer camps.

Now, which program do you think is serious about finding the best possible talent and which program is raising money?

 

Re: Re: impact of Ajax Orlando on player development

Ajax Orlando...the soccer version of those "Who's Who" books.

 

So the question becomes, how do you organize a program in say Chicago (and I'll repeat this statistic until it changes: of the 30 or so players in MLS or a National Team pool from the Chicagoland Area, not a single one is from Chicago) that accomplishes this same task: find talented players, give them high level training and develop them in a no fee system.

The disappointment with Ajax Orlando is that they have the financial muscle to do just that, but are instead looking for a space at the trough with the rest of the youth clubs (the likely reason is that this really isn't an Ajax club but an already existing youth club licensing out Ajax's name).

Not to be too hard on the clubs: they want to develop the best possible players they can. But at the end of the day, pay to play is the driving force.

 

some of the cynical attitudes towards AJAX orlando in this thread are absolutely mystifying - years from now, you'll be telling us you knew it was great situation from the beginning - the biggest worry anybody should have is; exactly how much like the amsterdam academy is it going to be? (btw, top 10? get real... try top 3, if not the best)

 

To see a child pay money to the "evaluation" camp is the same as paying to go to a camp and depending on the camp probably better instruction.

You have parents sending (some big $$$$) their kids to specific college camps so the coach will "know" who ther are come recruiting time.

I have heard they will have teams from U8 - U19. After seeing and hearing (first hand) training for Orlando's select teams area, this would be a huge step up.

 

I don't see why it's mystifying. There was some hope that Ajax Orlando would be a sea-change for US youth soccer, but instead it looks like we're getting a repackaged traditional US Youth Club with a designer name. If Ajax was going to set up an academy like the one they have in Amsterdam or even South Africa, we'd all be 100% for it, but that doesn't appear to be what they're doing. In fact, there's some question as to just how involved Ajax really is in this whole process anyway. We know that the guy in charge of all this, Mark Dillon, was running a youth club in Orlando previously. Here's the "about" section on their website:

The emphasis is mine. The situation appears to be that Ajax is allowing this Orlando youth club to use their trademarks, as opposed to this actually being an Ajax run outfit. Clearly Dillon wants people to think this is 100% pure Ajax as that brings with it many obvious benefits. So he hires a famous Dutch player as technical director, cuts a bunch of mutually beneficial deals with Ajax, and then runs fee-based camps around the country where parents and players are plied with "world class" training and Ajax merchandise.

There's a fair amount of conjecture on my part, but none of it is contradicted by the facts. With that being the case, isn't a healthy dose of skepticism warranted?

 

A couple of comments on this lively thread.

First, trying to find the best talent, and charging the familes of those players to train them, are NOT necessarily incompatible. One of the implications contained is this discusssion, is that if Ajax Orlando were TRULY meritocratic, then it would be free for those who are good enough. Or, conversely, the fact that it ISN"T free means it isn't meritocratic. I think it's possible to logically dispute both of those propositions. Do the expensive elite clubs, which win the lion's share of state cups, top tournaments, and produce top pros, do so because they cost a lot?? Or because they attract the best players?

QED.

Second, a corollary implication is that because elite soccer in this country is paid for by parents, then we are in fact missing highly talented players who can't afford it. Besides the fact that this particular negative is unprovable, I would dispute this notion too. With the growth of youth soccer in this country, I daresay very very few truly exceptional youth players get overlooked.

Third, the only reason that elite level club basketball can be free for top players is that somebody else is paying for it . Well, doh! In this case, it's Nike, Reebok, and Adidas. Why are they paying for it? Because it's an investment, with potentially a huge return for identifying the next LeBron James. Plus it gets the top college coaches, always in the market for shoe deals, in front of the shoe companies.

Of course, Brandenton is really a small time version of this, funded as it is by just one company. But remember, the market is smaller for soccer here.

In the end, it does boil down to economics.

 

Karl -

Yes and no.

Yes it's economics.

No in that you're pursuing a different argument than that posed by the original issue.

The original statement was, to paraphrase, "Great, Ajax is now in the U.S., finally we have a real European development program."

The answer to which is, "No, we have a European brand name but an American style development program. Like the MLS development programs, Ajax Orlando does not yet represent real change to America's unusual 'pay-to-play' model."

Right?

Now, as for the effectiveness of the U.S. pay to play model ... well that's a different question, isn't it? At any rate, I'm going to steer clear of that particular argument.

 

To me, Ajax youth development is kind of like an urban legend. Everyone says it's the best but the truth is that hundreds of exceptional players get developed the world over, not just in Amsterdam. There's a number of outstanding players in the US and elsewhere and the only Ajax they've ever seen is under their kitchen sink. Brazil produces more talent than anyplace else in the world and they don't claim to have any special system of player development. But there will be parents who will buy into the hype and spend thousands of dollars to send their kids to Ajax in Orlando. I hope they get their moneys worth.

 

They cost alot because they attract the most good players (not necessarily the best players as neither Donovan nor Beasley came from such a program), because they hold all the cards. They're the ones who get to send their players to Bradenton, they're the ones whose kids get all of the college scholarships, and they're the ones who have enough good and talented players on their team so that they always make the state finals and get seen by the people who matter in US Soccer.

If a Landon Donovan caliber youth player played on the Portage Park team for the Chicago Park District, with 10 other kids from his neighborhood, the Sockers would beat his team by 6 or more goals. That doesn't mean he isn't better than everyone else on the Sockers, just that soccer is a game where a single talented player can't win games all by himself.

You're under the impression that the best players always come from the teams who win a lot, and that isn't necessarily the case, especially because of the unique problems of the pay to play nature of youth soccer, the geographical dominance of the suburbs, and the nature of the game itself where it's hard to look good while your team is losing by 7 goals.

Second, a corollary implication is that because elite soccer in this country is paid for by parents, then we are in fact missing highly talented players who can't afford it. Besides the fact that this particular negative is unprovable, I would dispute this notion too. With the growth of youth soccer in this country, I daresay very very few truly exceptional youth players get overlooked.
Then what exactly is your explanation for a situation where a population of 6 million in the Chicago suburbs can produce 30 pro caliber players and 3 million in the city can produce 0 players. Are you trying to tell me that there are no potential talented players in Chicago? None? I have no proof (neither do you), but that seems a bit unlikely given the mathematics. Here's a list of all the Illinois towns that produced multiple state ODP players:

Town
Naperville - 9
Arlington Heights - 5
Woodridge - 5
Aurora - 4
Peoria - 4
Rockford - 4
Chicago - 3
Libertyville - 3
Barrington - 2
Crystal Lake - 2
Geneva - 2
Glencoe - 2
Hoffman Estates - 2
Lockport - 2
Lombard - 2
Roscoe - 2
Schaumburg - 2
St Charles - 2
Western Springs - 2
Wheaton - 2

Can you explain to me exactly what the difference is in the makeup of towns that allows places like Rockford and Peoria to have more state ODP players than Chicago? And that's not even disproportionately more, absolutely more.

If it's that boys in Chicago don't play soccer, than why exactly is the same phenomenon present with the girls as well. Clearly soccer ought to be up there with basketball as the big ticket sport for girls in Chicago, no?

If you have a town 30 miles away from Chicago that has three times as many state ODP players as Chicago with a twentieth of the population, there is no way you can convince me without overwhelming proof in support that these two towns are developing players to an equal extent of their potential.

If it's not a case of geography and money keeping the sufficient training out of the hands of talented young Chicago soccer players, than I'd like to know what the explanation is.

Third, the only reason that elite level club basketball can be free for top players is that somebody else is paying for it. Well, doh! In this case, it's Nike, Reebok, and Adidas. Why are they paying for it? Because it's an investment, with potentially a huge return for identifying the next LeBron James. Plus it gets the top college coaches, always in the market for shoe deals, in front of the shoe companies.

Of course, Brandenton is really a small time version of this, funded as it is by just one company. But remember, the market is smaller for soccer here.

In the end, it does boil down to economics.
It boils down to a 1st division league setup where monetary incentive for improvement in the product has been eradicated so you have situations like San Jose or the atrocity in Dallas, were cost becomes the only factor in the club's decision making since such a huge chunk of the revenues any investments would yield head elsewhere. As far as youth development goes, this problem is further exacerbated by any potential benefit a team might yield from training local players for a pro future is eradicated by a draft setup where another team gets to capitalize on their development work.

It has to do with economics alright, the economics of a stupid system where any monetary incnetives to develop quality players are removed from the process. A system where quality players are viewed as a salary cap "problem" as opposed to the solution for bringing in more fans. A system where the talent identification process is left to a handful of big ticket club teams at the age of 14/15, teams who have a reason to favor players with substantial means to pay club fees over players who don't (and rightfully so, these clubs depend on these fees for their existence, without the fees, no one plays). A system where a town with 150,000 people can develop three times as many State ODP players as a town 30 miles away with 3 million, and no one bats an eyelash.

I realize it sounds like I'm against the big clubs in this country, not in the slightest. Their contribution to the player pool has been invaluable. My criticism is in the belief that they are sufficient to win us a World Cup. They aren't. We need to start tapping the cities for players or else were ceding a huge advantage to our opponents who all scout heavily in their cities.

And it's not like these programs don't exist:

http://www.houstonians.org/youth_soccer_prog.htm
http://www.socceramerica.com/article.asp?Art_ID=56208000

It seems like with all the money this US Soccer made from the World Cups, and all the money they've given pay to play club teams over the years since, that the money was there to subsidize an academy system that would likely eventually increase the revenues of US Soccer down the road.

Why was it not done?

 

Nobody has mentioned this yet, but Ajax Orlando's star recruit, Dax McCarty recently committed to North Carolina. I suppose I should have realized that they had not really 'signed' McCarty to play for their PDL team, but only got his word, but their article certainly doesn't make that clear. I've got some serious doubts about Ajax Orlando's ability to attract (and produce) the top american talent if it's not seen as an alternative to college, but instead some sort of supplement. McCarty won't be going the "European" route, playing year-round and developing at a club - he'll be playing for UNC in the fall and playing in the summer with a PDL team, not much different than Clarence Goodson playing for the Boulder Rapids reserves or Ned Grabavoy for the Chicago Fire reserves - there's not much reason to believe that, when it comes time for him to turn pro, he won't be leaving Ajax for the better prospects in MLS.