'I'm a fascist not a racist' insists Di Canio

Discussion in 'Lazio' started by Catfish, Dec 23, 2005.

  1. ToonUSA

    ToonUSA New Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    Neither do I but I would certainly hope it is. Freedom of speech is one of the human rights that everyone is allowed to express.
     
  2. frenil

    frenil Member

    Mar 11, 2004
    Lund
    That's obviously a policy question regarding what kind of organization/political belief FIFA wants to be associated with.
     
  3. NYC

    NYC New Member

    Nov 1, 1999
    Except of course for those who oppose living under fascist dictators.
     
  4. LeeS

    LeeS Member

    Mar 23, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    As Americans, we are blessed to have true freedom of speech (despite what some in pwer would like), but I also think we by and large take it for granted that its the same throughout the western world.
    I am not so sure that its the same across the board.

    Lee
     
  5. frenil

    frenil Member

    Mar 11, 2004
    Lund
    It has nothing to do with freedom of speech, as he's making the gestures while representing another organization. Therefor, if the organizations policy is such that facist gestures are forbidden they have all the right in the world to ban him. If he were to express his views in his own personal time, it would be an entirely different issue.
     
  6. LeeS

    LeeS Member

    Mar 23, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think its a tricky slope to be traversing for FIFA to come out and say "This is right, but THAT is wrong".
    soccer is a global game, and no matter what side they come down on, someone isn't going to like it.

    I think FIFA making a point of saying that they couldn't disagree more with DiCanio's views, but leave it at that.

    Lee
     
  7. ToonUSA

    ToonUSA New Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    Well, considering you are from Berkeley I am not going to get into this with you because I am fairly sure I know your stance. However, a sentence is your passage grips me when you say that we take it for granted, because I feel the exact same way.
     
  8. LeeS

    LeeS Member

    Mar 23, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about the players who cross themselves? By doing so, are they not representing the Catholic church? And if you don't think supporting the Catholic church isn't a political gesture, we cannot have a discussion.

    Lee
     
  9. LeeS

    LeeS Member

    Mar 23, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Haha, well yes, I live in Berkeley, but I am no Berkeleyan. However, I am passionate about freedom of speech, if nothing else.

    Lee
     
  10. frenil

    frenil Member

    Mar 11, 2004
    Lund
    You're obviously missing the point. FIFA are free to make up policies regarding which political view they want to be associated with.

    It kind of works like this forum. The moderators are free to give you a warning and/or ban you if they feel you've breached their policies.
     
  11. ToonUSA

    ToonUSA New Member

    Jan 11, 2005
    Ok, good then I can continue to have a rational discussion with you because I can't stand the usual fools that come from Berkeley.
     
  12. LeeS

    LeeS Member

    Mar 23, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, no, I understand that FIFA can and does decide what is "right" and/or "wrong".
    I am just maintaining that its a tricky proposition, and ultimately unfair to single out one group of players (I am sure DiCanio isn't the only player who shares his particular views) over another (the majority who are Catholic for instance).

    A stern condemnation is one thing, depriving a man of his ability to make a living because you happen to not agree with his politics is another.
    I feel DiCanio's views are abhorrant (sp?) but cannot see how expressing those views in the manner that he does is any less objectionable than those players who make a point of gesturing in a manner that makes it clear they support the Catholic church (as an example only).

    Lee
     
  13. LeeS

    LeeS Member

    Mar 23, 2002
    San Francisco, CA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Truth be told, either can I.
    ;)

    Lee
     
  14. Pablo Chicago

    Pablo Chicago Member+

    Sep 7, 2005
    Sweet Home Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    :)
     
  15. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    I still see no answer to my initial question.
     
  16. nailz

    nailz New Member

    Nov 2, 2005

    that's more a comment than actual question. I'm with Di Canio on this as well, although if the team/organization says they don't want him doing it he should respect the team - they are his employer after all.
     
  17. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    1. DiCanio is being a complete idiot.
    2. Being fascist does not make one racist! While fascist governments are generally characterized by racism, as someone noted, they don't have to be. There is nothing inherently racist in the ideology of fascism (which has many, many deplorable aspects). The conflation of fascism and nazism leads to this belief, but there have been fascist governments that weren't ideologically racist. Which brings me to the next point:
    3. Italian fascism was not a racist. No, really. The original Italian fascism had nothing to do with race at all. Mussolini considered Jews Italian citizens and their rights were not abridged until Hitler's soldiers were required to prop up Mussolini. Despite being allied with Hitler for a decade, Mussolini's anti-Jewish acts didn't take place until, I believe, 1943. If fascism, which he'd put in place by the 20s, were racist, surely he'd have managed to do something earlier.
    4. I'm Jewish, so don't even bother trying to tell me that explanation is anti-semitic.
    5. DiCanio is still an idiot. (He's also not too good anymore; go ahead and ban him, I'd rather have Pandev starting.)
    6. Teso, if you ask stupid questions, no one is going to answer them. They're right not to.
    7. Can UEFA punish him? Sure they can. He was doing this at a private event under a UEFA member's jurisdiction. He can do whatever he wants at public rallies, but yes, UEFA is allowed to control his behavior. There may be some EU rights, but I don't believe the EU gives free speech rights against private entities. So yes, DiCanio can be punished. So long as UEFA isn't being arbitrary, I think its within its rights.
    Again, keep in mind, this is a private, not governmental event. And if you say, "hey, my employer can't fire me for doing something like this at work", then you're so, so wrong.
    8. Please keep in mind that there is no general right to free speech. It does not exist. There is only right to free speech against the government. You do not have the right to say what you want at a private event, at your office, or anywhere where the rules of a private entity govern. Such as on BigSoccer. So, if tomorrow, Huss were to outlaw the posting of anyone who's screennamen included the word "Teso", a measure long, LONG overdue, he'd be completely within his rights. And anyone dumb enough to use "Teso" wouldn't be able to do a damn thing about it.
    P.S. Just don't ask about the Bosman issue and I won't have to get my EU law casebook out. Thanks.
     
  18. Teso Dos Bichos

    Teso Dos Bichos Red Card

    Sep 2, 2004
    Purged by RvN
    It's not a stupid question at all nice.
     
  19. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    Jesus ********ing Christ, the answer was in my post.
     
  20. mad theory

    mad theory New Member

    May 10, 2004
    London
    That came across more rhetoric than it did an actual question.

    But you posted it, it's bound to be stupid.
     
  21. nicephoras

    nicephoras A very stable genius

    Fucklechester Rangers
    Jul 22, 2001
    Eastern Seaboard of Yo! Semite
    For once, we're in full agreement MT.
     
  22. mak9

    mak9 Member

    May 21, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    There are a lot of idiots in this world. I have met some people who are pro-nazi and **** and they are only teenagers!

    One of the problems of having Fifa suspending Di Canio, is that it could make more and more players do the same, thinking it is cool to do it, it is rebilious. It makes the gesture more and more popular.

    Unfortunitely if/when they let go of him and Di Canio continues to do the same gesture over and over again, younger kids would also copy him. So it is a very difficult situation to resolved.

    My opinion is that let him continue playing and have him do the guestures, but just let the non-Canio fans take care of him. He will get bashed all over by both these fans and the players who play against him. It'll be a matter of time before he will seriously get hurt.
     
  23. squadra_azzurri

    squadra_azzurri Member+

    Aug 10, 2004
    Toronto
    Club:
    SS Lazio Roma
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy

    you wouldnt believe how many teens would outsmart and class you. You see there is nothing cool about being punished. if you are young and want to go somewhere in soccer and have stuff to prove in soccer... teens will not do the roman salute. see usually teens in soccer want to become successful and not a joke. ahahahah ya nazi symbols r cool man and then we can get fined 7000 euro and then no team is going to want me... that is sooo cool and rebelious.... please watch what you say
     
  24. LA CURVA SUD ROMA

    LA CURVA SUD ROMA BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Sep 24, 2005
    Montreal
    who cares!!!! this gut is like 38 yrs old! this could be his last year or maybe 1 more and then he will be soooo forgotten and you'll never see that salute ever again even though it ISN'T rascist.
     
  25. mak9

    mak9 Member

    May 21, 2005
    Toronto, Canada
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    What I was trying to say is that if Fifa just suspend him for one game, and than have him come back, these kids would think they can get away with it. Obviously they wouldn't be fined for 7000 euros, but they will only be suspended not banned. BTW, doing stuff like that here in North America is not acceptable but can you say the same thing for players playing in Italy?
     

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