Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by FIRETILIDIE, Mar 7, 2011.
No Magic,Sockers,Eclipse, or FC Tokito(Schwaben),
-things sure have changed
State Cup past U15 means nothing. It's all about the Development Academies. Best players are either with Sockers, Fire or Magic DA or lone great players on clubs without DA teams.
Girls side is going the same way with ECNL...
In general, the good players on the boys side are mostly in the DAs. However, there are a few teams who have managed to keep or "hide" their talented players from the DAs.
Either way, winning State Cup means very little for developing better quality players, as the aim should be.
Lots of players out there who arent involved with the DA and also lots of very good players who havent found there way to a DA.
You win State cup and you go to Regionals which is still a great accomplishment.
yonko, at U17 arent you working to develop kids who know how to win?
Very true. DG Roadrunners U18 team has the Sun Times and Tribune players of the year and will be going to the Dallas Cup. Both of those kids could have been in DA but chose to also participate in other sports for their schools instead of commit to just one sport.
No, you should be developing players who can win and/or make an impact at the professional level. That is the purpose of developing youth players and at U17 they are still "youth".
There is certainly nothing wrong with trying to win, but it is not the main objective/purpose of developing players. First they must know how to play, and then worry about winning. I've seen many youth players who have won more than just State Cups, but they still didn't know how to play the game and some of them have even quit.
Winning doesn't make players better, making the players better/teaching them how to play well is winning in youth soccer, especially in the long run.
Missing my point, I'm well aware of developg players but at 17 years old its ok to win and its ok play to win.
I dont understand how you can dismiss a state cup as not being important for 17 yr olds? In regards to soccer if not that then what is? Keep in mind that for most 17 yr olds their soccer playing days will be over soon.
You can say the payoff is a pro career or a scholarship but that is for a very small percentage compared to the amount of kids that play the game.
So I say winning can help develop players. At U17 players should possess the skills and tactical knowledge or ability to adapt to their opponents or instructions from their coach to win.
Here we go Classic YONKO..or I mean Christpher Sullivan..let's just pass the ball side to side for 90 minutes and do really cute passing patterns and not try and win..
I'm pretty sure every kid,team,coach,parent...and so on want to win state cup if they are in it.
YONKO why dont you just go hang out at a middle school and watch recess if you want to watch a game where no one cares who wins
How about winning at DA? Is that important? If development is the game, then USSF should not care if whether the DA clubs are winning or not. Only the quality of training should be the consideration, right?
Back to IYSA state cup though, the number of teams involved this year is looking rather sad regardless. Is the story similar for the ODP?
Let me ask you this. If it's not pro career or college, then why should U17s learn to win or have winning be priority? Is it for the parents to feel happy and/or for coaches to boost their resumes?
You are also missing my point. I'm not saying it is not OK to win or playing to win. But what difference does it make winning the State Cup, or making it your objective to win it? If you win it, playing good and deserve it, then great. But if you don't, live goes on, no?
You are also missing my point. Try reading my posts and using your brain before responding. You talk of winning the State Cup as if it's the World Cup or something. Relax, it's just youth soccer. Everyone cries why US is not producing good players, but they fail to understand that is/should be youth soccer's main objective, not winning some State Cup.
Look I'm not saying USSF is "innocent" when assessing DAs progress and quality. US soccer's problem is not teaching players how to win or having players with desire to win. It is producing players for the next level who can make an impact and improve the state of the game in this country. Where is US's 17 or 18 year old talented player who lights up the MLS? Where is US soccer's LeBron James or Kobe Bryant? The best we have is Donovan, Dempsey and a few GKs. And how long did they take to get to the level they are currently at? Does anyone even remember how many State Cups they won?
Its a sport....they're 17 yrs old...their state crowns a champion each year...... WTF???? Lose the grand scheme of things perspective and come back to reality YONKO.
At 17 to go out and lose 5-0 but say its ok because we played a type of football that will only help us in the future is ridiculous.
By now they should have developed technical skills and maybe need their mental skills "developed" by learning to fight,adapt,think,& win.
Y.O.N.K.O is always about the golden ticket, problem is he's more Violet Beauregarde than Charlie.
You want reality? The reality is that regardless if kids win State or not, many of them aren't going anywhere further with this sport. Reality is also the fact that winning State Cup has more immediate impact and meaning to parents and coaches than players.
And who said anything about losing 5-0 or about playing styles? Kids compete, play and if they win great, but if they don't then move on, life goes on.
Many things should have been developed by that age, but also many of them are still developing and are far from the finished product. Even seasoned pros continue to work on things youth players do too and are developing.
BTW, the lack of "grand scheme perspective" is why US soccer is "stuck" at the level that it currently is.
Who is Violet and who is Charlie? And what "golden ticket" are you talking about?
So what?? A state title whether it be in basketball,wrestling,the spelling bee, whatever means something and you and the other poster basically said well now that there is a DA system it doesnt mean anything. And your particular slant is that it will do nothing to get us an american Messi,Giggs etc..
My point is that it does mean something to the kids and people involved with trying to achieve it.
Nice ESPN piece on Andrew Oliver who many say might be the next top American player. One of the places he really got noticed was at regionals at U15 with his Indiana club who were Indiana state champs.
just FYI - Charlie - Violet & the golden ticket are from Willy Wonka and the chocolate factory
Look, I don't know how it is in other sports or spelling bees games. And I never said State Cup doesn't matter because of the DA program, nor do I think that.
What does it mean to the kids? I know what it means to the people involved, as I already said it in my parents/coaches comment.
The fact that this kid Andrew Oliver got noticed only at the Regionals is a problem of the scouting system of the US. Maybe there are more talented players who aren't privileged enough to play on teams that win State and compete at Regionals. Who watched and scouts them? And is it enough to see a player at Regionals only to determine if he really is a good player?
Never knew that. Isn't that some kids' story or a movie or something? Anyway, thanks for shedding some light about Charlie and Violet. At first I thought it was about Charlie Sheen and his latest "goddess". LOL
Charlie Sheen is Winning! Hey YONKO, maybe you're Charlie Sheen?
He is winning at what? No, I couldn't possibly be Charlie Sheen.....I don't have his "goddesses" nor his millions, sadly. Plus, I'm all about winning in style, like Barcelona, which he is obviously not.
there are 2 versions of the movie - one with Johnny Depp and an older one with Gene Wilder - I think the older one is better
you should see it sometime - great flick
LOL. Yonko, apparently someone do like Sheen's "style", his bowling shirts are selling like hot cakes.
Barcelona style? As in Dani Alves rolling around whenever he's touched? Just kidding ..... haha.
Well I guess Sheen is "winning" when it comes to selling bowling shirts.
Barcelona's style - like Messi's first goal vs Arsenal in the 2nd leg.
I tend to agree with YONKO that the big picture is important for the sport to develop in this country beyond that of an immigrant supported venue. Many of these top club teams are made of up players whose parents are willing and/or able to pay for all this coaching and years of development, while in other sports, sometimes the best athletes come from very humble backgrounds to downright poverty.
In countries where soccer is the main sport, most of the top players come from the slums in an effort to get out, just like football and basketball in the US. So the sport needs to get more athletes and less clumsy, rich kids whose parents happen to be lucky enough to afford the years of technical training for that road to the state cup. I know a lot of clubs offer discounts or other promotions to kids who may not have the means, but only when the talent level is exceptional so its beneficial to the club.
But back to the original topic, I would think most HS kids would take more pleasure from winning the State title for their school team over the state cup for their club.
that wasnt the original topic but yonko ( and apparently you) always want to steer threads into that direction. ( the heck with waterboarding, just make suspects have to listen to you guys go on about your "development" philosophies...TORTURE!!!!!!)
The topic was how much things have changed with only the Fire representing the powerhouse clubs at U17 boys.
with a ticket to regionals for the winner my guess is that the Magic,Sockers,Eclipse etc.. have given up at that age group because the Fire have become so deep that they dont have a chance of winning. With DP players coming down to help it really helps the Fire win state titles and get representation at regionals..........Hmmmmmm where's ratchet jaw Soccerlad nowadays to eat his words?????
DP cannot come down to play so long as they have played more then 6 games. So if they are coming down then they have been on the bench.
LOL, I didn't know you "listen" on forums. Isn't it reading what people do here? And only people who wouldn't know much or have no interest in good youth development would find it as torture.
I'll tell you what is torture - watching most of these State Cup games.