One thing that I didn't don't think anyone has thought this through is how this might affect referee movement and positioning. Many times we as referees turn our back to the goalkeeper when they catch the ballso we can run up field to get in position for the punt or throw by the goal keeper. You're in a fast game, keeper catches the ball you turn your back to the keeper and run up field to get on position. Do you run up the field with your arm in the air counting down? Or do you have your AR/4th tell you, "hey three seconds are up its time to count down." This is so unbelievably dumb and silly.
The advice in the USSF presentation is that you use the three seconds to get down the field. Then start counting the 5 seconds.
USSF is just trying to do their part to enhance referee shoulder and arm workouts. Don't forget to alternate arms during the game!
I assume this is still a fuzzy 8 seconds, given the start isn't definitive and the timing itself is very manual. That is, if the goalkeeper is clearly in the process of releasing the ball after an imprecisely timed 8 seconds, let play continue?
Personally, I'd suggest a mechanic of "If the GK releases the ball before you blow your whistle at the end of the countdown, let play continue, but once you blow that whistle you must enforce the time."
For years referees have been clamouring to fix the 6 second rule. We finally have a fix to the rule and an opportunity to enforce it and now we're already searching for excuses to make it a murky 8, 9, 12, 14 second rule?
I don't think it's excuses, it's reality. Also, I believe most people agreed that 6 seconds was probably too quick. Which is why the new rule is 8--not 6! Also also, how much "clamouring" has there really been? Don't get me wrong, I think overall this is a good thing (USSF's self-imposed idiocy around the mechanics aside). But we were in a world where goalkeepers like Emialano Martinez were taking 25 seconds twice in the same stoppage time (to cite a reason real-life example); if this change gets that 50 seconds down to 20 or so, that's huge progress. We don't need to be rigidly blowing the whistle at 8.1 seconds to make this law change effective.
Who in that IFAB meeting thought the counting down visually while you might be running downfield is a brilliant idea and actually officiated the game at any level? When we're signaling offside with the arm up, we're usually slightly stationary or might be slightly backpedaling. When you have a quick restart, it might be up for a second or two while you're running, so not a big deal. We've all signaled advantage where we have our arm up and that slows you down. Now, they want you to do it with your arm up and counting down? It's won't happen at the youth level and can't see pro refs doing this for long either.
Problem is, you're visually counting (down from 5 or up to 5, whichever it turns out to be) and you hit the limit at 8 seconds. You can't fudge 8.1 or 8.3 or 8.5. You already signaled that time was up. If the keeper distributes the ball in the time that it takes to bring your arm down and lift your whistle to your lips, OK. But I foresee problems if you go much beyond that. (Another one of those Laws updates that makes me glad I'm retired from reffing.)
I’ve noticed that when it comes to rule/procedure changes, this forum seems to be quite traditionalist in a way that reminds me of how long it took MLB to get video replay and, soon, automated balls and strikes. Assuming the absolute worst before the rule has even been implemented, any time there’s a little weirdness, discrepancy, or inconsistency when it first gets implemented people start saying how this shows how it’s a dumb idea, etc. It’s a little frustrating that people can’t even give it a chance before already trashing it. This rule in particular, 6 seconds has been such a farce for so long that it’s pretty much just been accepted as part of the game, seeing this BS where a keeper makes a save then dives to the ground and takes 20+ seconds to distribute the ball and it will never get called. IFAB finally decides to try to make something concrete, and before we even see it in action, it’s all just “oh they won’t actually do it, this hand signal is stupid, do people actually want this rule change, etc”
Unless proven otherwise, I think we need to distinguish between what IFAB wants and what USSF said. I believe IFAB expects something like an offside signal, with just the fingers moving as necessary. USSF instructed something else entirely. One is perfectly reasonable and very close to what we already do, as you said (particularly as if a goalkeeper is starting to delay, there's no reason to be sprinting or running much once you get into your initial position). The other is not.
Anticipation is 2/3rds greater than reality. We lack so much information about how this is going to work in implementation, and we fill that vacuum with our worst fears. I'm thinking it will be somewhere along the lines of the passback rule change. Some confusion, sure, but teams adapted pretty quickly, IIRC.
Yes, it's farcical, but many of us are negative because IFAB has a history of failing to get it right the first time. We can go on and on with examples such as the quick revision to the drop-ball, to the revision of the hand ball rules, to deflection/possession of offside, etc, etc, etc. So far, most of the observations are that it's about time that this was addressed but know it's not practical and will have to be tweaked down the road.
Feel like we're starting to go in circles here and having different discussions among different people. I was the first one who said that 8 will functionally be 11 or 14. So it won't be 8.1 in practice. And the visual count itself will be what prevents this from almost ever needing to be called at any competitive level. I find myself in the awkward position of believing IFAB did something smart and effective here. I think all of the complaints--other than the one about USSF's mechanic instruction--miss the mark here. IFAB crafted a rule that will improve the game with little practical change.
Yeah, when I saw this rule change, my first thought was “wow, it took IFAB long enough to at least make an attempt like they’re trying to deal with this BS. I’m interested to see how it gets implemented and if it actually fixes this problem”. Come here and theres catastrophizing every aspect of it before it’s even been attempted in a single match. Just funny to see
The fact you can’t fudge too much is a feature not a bug. It’s easy to fudge a tenth of a second, or even a few, on the final second. But if the GK hasn’t released the ball (or is at least clearly releasing it) the whole point is he just gave up a GK. The process is designed so the GK clearly knows he is on the clock and so that it is harder for Rs to just let it slide. It’s not going to get us to futsal levels of quick releases, but if it gets the norm under 10 seconds, that is a great improvement.
I mean, we're eight FIFA-level matches into this and we haven't even noticed it, right? The only observation in the CWC thread so far is that an international elite referee chose to (or just mistakenly) also use(d) the mechanic on goal kicks, too. If a referee at that level sees the utility in his first match using it, perhaps there's something here...
Respectfully, why not? We already award offside for 5 mm. We deny a goal for the ball scrape of an arm. A ball is out of play or in play...no middle ground. In college we end a game with a ball mid flight if "time is up". Some of the adjudication of the game has become (for worse) a game of millimeters and milliseconds. If the law says 8 seconds, then 8 seconds it will be.
Have you been rigidly calling 6 seconds and giving multiple attacking IFKs against goalkeepers for the last 30 years? If you want to complain about how officiating has been more exacting at the elite level, particularly with VAR, knock yourself out--you'll get very few complaints from me. If you want to channel that frustation into calling goalkeepers literally every time you count to eight, okay, but I don't suspect you'll have too many allies making the same connection.
Unrelated to this discussion, but per Law 13, once it's clear a goal can't be scored directly, referees should be putting their arm down. So anyon who's running with their arm up for that long is just doing it for fun. Exactly. It's going to be really hard for referees to "fudge" this. You'll have some referees who count down from 8 really slowly, but if they want to invite that dissent, it's their problem. Its impact has been clear at Club World Cup and the competitions where it's been trialled. In all the trials I've heard, they've made it clear that it's a very strict 8 seconds. The hardest part of the new mechanic is just remembering to start counting. For those who are still refereeing, try it out mentally on your next game. It's pretty straight forward after the first few times.