IFAB AGM 2020

Discussion in 'Referee' started by MassachusettsRef, Feb 29, 2020.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    LOTG changes for 2020-2021. Will be a bit before we get everything in text, I think. But article is below. The one thing that struck me is Law 10–yellow cards now get wiped out going into KFTM. Talk about the wrong solution to the problem (yellows for GK encroachment)! @socal lurker , what do you think about this?

    https://www.theifab.com/news/the-if...tution-trials-to-address-concussion-incidents

    Sounds like we are likely to see a trial for concussion substitutions at the Olympics, too.
     
  2. sulfur

    sulfur Member

    Oct 22, 2007
    Ontario, Canada
    Personally, I preferred the solution at the WWC.

    No cautions for GK encroachment in KFTM.
     
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Not really sure what to say. Stupid? Delusional? Using a hammer to fix a window? Locked in a high tower with no sense? Unable to admit it was a stupid idea to make GK infringements a cautions so looking for warped solutions?

    But I noticed they took time to pat themselves on the back for the glorious success of VAR and the wonderful effect all of last year’s changes had on the game. Everything is beautiful (except for cautions continuing into KFTM.
     
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  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Then why have them during regular play?

    I mean, the BEST argument for the yellow seems to be additional deterrence, right? I don’t know why you’d want to take away that deterrence during KFTM.

    I can’t wait until a field player already on a yellow gets a dissent card or even booked for removing a shirt. That’s going to be fun.
     
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  5. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    The idea it is more deterrence is just plain stupid. The reason GKs weren’t deterred from coming off early was that it wasn’t called. And when they added the caution, it didn’t get called more. It only got called more when they used VAR to detect it. Once that happened, it was the retakes, not the cautions that deterred GKs. GKs don’t get a lot of cUtions, so taking one for the team just isn't a big deal, it’s giving up the goal instead of the save that’s a big deal. And this change isn’t going to save anyone from the absurdity of a sent off GK when he gets called for being a quarter inch off the line a second time during KFTM. Does soccer really expect to have a fullback in goal for that for the final kick in a knock out game? IFAB just put a tiny bandaid on a large gushing wound when there was a really simple solution—but they would have to have admitted they were wrong in making it a caution in the first place (and they were clearly wrong in that really stupid idea).
     
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  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. And yet it’s still the best argument!

    It’s absolutely astounding that we are now going to create a situation where a player can get two yellow cards in the same match/tiebreaker and not get sent off... simply to keep the automatic yellows for goalkeeper encroachment on the books. Adding an asterisk to one of the most basic principles of the Laws just so IFAB can keep an administrative caution that no one seems to want. Baffling is the only way to describe it.
     
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  7. refinDC

    refinDC Member

    Aug 7, 2012
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are we sure that's what it is? And not poor writing by a PR person about what is actually just a change implementing what they did at the WWC to end cautions for goalkeepers in KFTM?
     
  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There’s a chance that what that is, sure. But IFAB put this on its own site and the language is almost too clear to be wrong. Barring something unexpected or new, I’m going with the plain language.
     
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  9. ManiacalClown

    ManiacalClown Member+

    Jun 27, 2003
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Oh good, a Law change that will break my database
     
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  10. Pittsburgh Ref

    Pittsburgh Ref Member+

    Oct 7, 2014
    da 'Burgh
    You need the Poll upgrade
     
  11. GroveWanderer

    GroveWanderer Member

    Nov 18, 2016
    And here is that language from the actual site:

     
  12. GroveWanderer

    GroveWanderer Member

    Nov 18, 2016
    #12 GroveWanderer, Mar 3, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2020
    Well, I guess they could point to this from Law 10, and say that technically KFPM are not part of the match.:

    In fact, up till 2016 that used to be exactly what the law said:

     
  13. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    "The IFAB will continue to look at measures within the Laws of the Game to tackle mobbing of match officials and confrontations between players which should have no place in the game."

    I get annoyed just reading this.
     
  14. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    The NBA cracked down on dissent a few years ago, and it has pretty much stopped. Rugby, as has been referenced here many times, has a different tradition regarding referee/player interactions. Whenever they decide to implement the measures, it will not be that long before it becomes less of a problem. (Yeah, right!).
     
  15. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Precisely. It has all been bark without bite. We now use VAR to caution GKs for being a mm off the line on a PK. If we use VAR to caution the second (and every subsequent) player who approaches a R to complain about a call/non-call, the problem would stop just about instantly. But that takes a willingness to actually address the problem instead of just wringing the hands about what an awful problem it is.
     
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  16. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, I deliberately said "match/tiebreaker" because of that language. It's always been very clear that KFTM is a tiebreaker and not part of the actual match itself. FIFA records show matches that went to KFTM as draws, for example.

    But it's still always been clearly tied to match, too. Substitution rules matter. Reduce to equate has come in (relatively) recently. And cautions didn't suddenly reset.

    If the press statement is accurate and cautions are being wiped clean heading into KFTM, why not also allow each team to nominate anyone to kick, including players who already were substituted out? If the logic is that it's an entirely separate event, not connected to the match, it seems pretty easy to get to a conclusion where everyone should just start fresh.

    Of course, that would take some sort of vision and forward thinking to see where a knee-jerk decision will get you. IFAB does not seem to be capable of that, which is why we're seeing this change in the first place.
     
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  17. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    What NBA are you watching? Have you seen Draymond Green? Soccer has issues with dissent, but the NBA and the NFL are even worse.
     
  18. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I haven't watched much lately, but I don't recall ever seeing a group of players surround an NBA referee the way soccer players routinely do. And I don't recall ever seeing an NBA player walk away from aggressive players without giving a T. I don't recall ever seeing an NBA player scream F-you in the face of a referee without sanction. Green may dissent, but he also leads the NBA in technical fouls because NBA referees give the Ts for dissent whereas professional soccer players almost never give the cautions.
     
  19. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And more recently their coaches have their suspensions reduced when they go after a ref after the game, in the case of the premier league.
     
  20. fairplayforlife

    fairplayforlife Member+

    Mar 23, 2011
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You would never see an NBA or NFL player manhandle their officials like in soccer. Not a chance.
     
  21. threeputzzz

    threeputzzz Member+

    May 27, 2009
    Minnesota
    I'm kind of sick of needing to be "on guard" and having to proactively man-manage to keep players from acting up, having to be on the lookout for hotheads, having to decide how much dissent is too much. Games are so much more fun to officiate when you don't have to focus on that stuff. I know it's part of being a good referee, but I don't find it an enjoyable part of the experience anymore. Just because I can do it doesn't mean I want to, and even when you manage personalities well things can still fall apart. I swore off adult matches long ago and I may just extend that to all boys matches above U15 or so.
     
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  22. LampLighter

    LampLighter Member

    Bugeaters FC
    Apr 13, 2019
    This bigtime, sometimes I'll just turn my ears off and ref the game and ignore all of that stuff. I'm getting paid $30 for your game, basically you don't pay me enough to deal with all your strong "personalities".
     
  23. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    My layman's impression is that dissent in baseball may be just as bad as soccer. There isn't much group mobbing but coaches and players get right in the umpire's face - screaming and spitting from 6 inches away.

    No thank you!
     
  24. Rufusabc

    Rufusabc Member+

    May 27, 2004
    The referees routinely give out T’s for dissent. Not so much in our game.
     
  25. Pierre Head

    Pierre Head Member+

    Dec 24, 2005
    If a PK was given for dissent, it would stop immediately!:D
     
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