Understood that it's not a change your dying for but I don't know what objections have been refutable? If a game played with legends on both teams didn't cause the meter to move on interest for a dual-system, what would change today? I have yet to see anyone say they've seen the match on YouTube and thought it was a wonderful idea to be adopted now. If it ever is and works, then great. These are the same folks that gave us this version of VAR, so I have no confidence in them getting anything right and would prefer they don't ruin the game further. When we have Jalen Brunson driving to the basket tonight and drawing contact, generally both the regular fan and even players will have a consensus if it's a foul/no foul. In soccer, we obviously know there's more subjectivity than any other sport. Now, we add another referee on the another side of the soccer field and we're creating more issues than it's supposed to solve. I can just see the headlines for World Cup 2074 when I'm long gone from this planet and the headline on ESPN is "Trail Referee Calls Foul from 50 yards Away and Costs USA the World Cup" (which VAR would say isn't Clear and Obvious).
I guess I'm in a unique situation because I'm in a state that regularly has sanctioned games with a dual system. My state's youth association allows duals and it's common in certain competitions including State Cup. 1. If you're at a low enough level that you're using a dual, the majority of refs don't give a shit. 2. The most common place to see a dual is a tournament where refs are being run ragged anyway and most refs can't run for the whole shift without keeling over. 3. The referee committee doesn't teach how to run a dual system, so most refs never had formal training how to do it. Most of what I know about it came from this forum. They have no idea they are supposed to be in position to call offside unless they also do high school or are veterans. 4. Non refs couldn't care less what system we use. They don't perceive any difference in officiating quality. When 70% of centers don't run at all and the only message coaches and parents get it to not yell at the ref, it doesn't matter whether you get a center or a dual, the ref is going to be 40 yards away from a lot of calls. I've never heard system related criticism or yelling from the sidelines.
As an AR in a diagonal system, you are right there with the second-to-last-defender all the time. That is not the case with the dual system. Play could be happening at the far end of the field so you move closer to the play. Even if you don’t, you are concentrating on the play and not looking at the 2tld, suddenly there is a play and the 2tld is further up the field than you thought. There are numerous other examples where you are not always where you need to be to call offside in a dual system. And even if you are close, if the angle is slightly off, that could cause you to think a player is onside when they are not or offside when they are on. I know that can happen with an AR too but it is more likely to happen in a dual system.
The dual system on paper is much better than the dual system I’ve ever seen in practice. My experience in HS was that very few refs would come into the “other” half more than in a token way. Some even pre-games, “yeah, we don’t need to do that.” ( It was pushed to do it properly at the mandatory preseason meeting, but that is just words.)
That's my (limited) experience with 2-man as well. I looked at the training materials that were floating around in it, showing roughly how far the trail referee is supposed to get into the opponent's half. To do it well, it requires a lot of fitness to be able to be in a solid position for play on one end and then be able to transition to the offside line on the other end. In practice, 95% of referees (especially the... err, "experienced officials"... who often work 2-man high school games) barely come into the opposite half.
In Today's game, this goal would have been disallowed.Are too many rules killing the game? pic.twitter.com/mBCGYnGx4t— GRIM (@grimshub) June 8, 2026 This is actually a great point that I never thought about on one of the most iconic goals in Premier League history.
So now some random Twitter account making the assumption that this would be nullified by VAR passes as evidence of the game being gone
When I was doing duals (HS) and was on the attacking end I tried to stay even with the first attacker rather than the 2nd last defender. Saved a little running and frequently allowed me to be further up field.
Does the ball touching the puffy era long sleaves count as handling if it clearly doesn't touch the arm itself?
Yes. If a player is wearing long sleeves the ball might never “touch their arm” proper, but it can still be a handball of course. The equipment is considered essentially part of the body.
I have some experience running duals and coaching matches that are officiated that way, doing the coaching well before the reffing. I found you can pretty well rule out using strategy of the offside trap as it is 50-50 whether it will be called correctly. Because I had been the beneficiary of that short-coming, when I started running duals I was hyper-focused on being in position to call the offside, probably to the detriment of my positioning to be able to help in the "blind corners". I also struggled with where to position myself on corner kicks. You would like to be on the end line to be able to see if a kick curves beyond or if there is a quick touch that leaves an attacking player offside, but I simply could not be there and be out close enough to play to be in good position for what might be a penalty call. Too many concessions with a dual system for important matches ime.
The "custom" around these parts is that on a corner, the lead is on the goal line and the trail pinches up all of the way up to the 18-20 yard line. Yes, that means that you're out of position on a counter, but that's less likely than a mess in the PA on a corner. Oh, and we only run a varsity duel for scrimmages/tournaments, and in an emergency. We do run duels for Freshling/JV
In NFHS publications, the lead in a dual is supposed to line up behind the kicker on a corner kick like an AR if the kick is taken on the same side they are running. If it is on the other side, the lead is supposed to be on the end line but near where the goal area meets the end line. In both cases, the trail is supposed to be just above the 18. In the area of Upstate NY where I officiate, we do duals for almost all regular season games because we don’t have enough referees. However, when sectional playoffs arrive, we use the diagonal system. This means that for some officials who only do high school soccer in this area, their first time running a line could be in a playoff game! Talk about trial by fire!
Yep, I know what the book says. It also says that the trail is supposed to basically be in the position expected for a CR and then, when the ball turns over, sprint back to take the lead (even with 2LD, wide or wider than the widest player on the lead's side of the field). I have NEVER seen anyone try to do that. My pre-game is "If you see it, blow your whistle, even if it's right in front of me". Does that mean that my potner calls something I wouldn't? Sure. Shrug. If they wanted to pay for DSC, I'm sure we'd find refs to cover the games. Our problem is the opposite. I don't think we have any referees that come in without knowing the DSC, since they are all USSF certified before they do high school. The problem is that their first high school game is almost certainly a sub-varsity game with a duel, and they have no idea how that works.
That is almost my same exact pregame. Everyone usually agrees with it. The only time that someone didn't, he said, "Don't call anything in front of me. I will live and die by my own calls. It's too embarrassing to have someone call what's right in front of you." Despite that, I called what I saw even if it was right near him; in good conscience, I could not NOT call fouls that I was. For our local USSF board, 90% of us are also high school referees, but we only make up about 30% of the local high school board. The rest are high school sports officials who happen to do soccer in the fall. They aren't bad, but the only time they do DSC is during the sectional playoffs. The reason that we don't have more high school officials at the USSF level is because our old president didn't want to recruit high school officials. He said that high school soccer and the dual system "ruined" them. I'm just the opposite. I would rather have more officials who are on both boards! Doing more soccer can only improve their skills.
I am coaching MS now. From what I have seen watching in the past (all levels) I cannot recall a match (any level) that was not a dual. I have not however watched any of the post-season matches aside from MS. Those were still duals. I guess we are just soccer ref poor in our area. Compounding that is likely that you have to go get NFHS certified on top of your USSF cert and then a special uniform. There aren't a ton of USSF classes around (I watch to try and get our kids who are interested into those classes for their certifications) and those classes that are had seem to be hosted and tailored to reffing for a specific club so they are not advertised well beyond that one club. Those of you that work with clubs, have any of them spoken on how and if they want to handle the countdowns on throw-ins and goal kicks? I can see that coming as quite the awakening the first time it is enforced.
Going back to the discussion of 2CT but not first being reviewable, it occurred to me what the impetus will be for reviewing them all: when a key player on a big team in a tournament gets a bad 1CT that suspends the player for a key game on accumulation.
The second referee in hockey was meant to enforce more penalties behind the single referee’s back. I’d imagine that as long as the officials have a good pregame and are following the league’s training, foul recognition would be at least somewhat comparable. Honest question since I’m not a rabid hockey follower. Can linesmen advise referees if they clearly see a major (as in significant or egregious, not the five-minute penalty) penalty occur? I’m thinking about that one huge slash or cross check in the Wild-Avalanche series (I think, please don’t quote me on that). If neither referee saw that but a linesman did, could they get with the two referees and say, “Hey, this happened and I’m 100% sure of it. You need to penalize it”?
I believe they can advise the referee on incidents they didn't see. What makes it a little easier now is they can just call practically anything they're not certain about a major penalty and automatically review it. They can keep a major, upgrade it to a game misconduct or match penalty, or downgrade it to a minor or even no penalty.