If Spencer plays against DC, what about..

Discussion in 'Colorado Rapids' started by Westwood, May 17, 2004.

  1. Westwood

    Westwood New Member

    Apr 9, 2004
    the following for our midfield alignment:

    DLT - Powell - Beckerman - Henderson

    or

    Chung - Powell - DLT - Henserson

    As for myself, until Chung actually does something I would sit him and look to bring him off the bench late in the game.
     
  2. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's tricky because I think both Crawford and DLT have been earning their playing time.

    The question is... "Does an underperforming Chung still contribute more than either of the other two?
     
  3. rapidfan

    rapidfan Member

    May 13, 2003
    Boulder
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Assuming Spenny is fit, I like the following starting line up again DS United ;

    Kotch - Pablo - Bourchers - DLT
    Henderson - Powell - Beckerman - Crawford
    Pedro - Spenny

    IMO - Crawford is better than an under perfroming Chung at outside mid. Also, until Stewart returns, DLT is our best option at right back.
     
  4. usasoc

    usasoc New Member

    Aug 21, 2003
    the comment" well chung's play is better than anothr player on the bench even though he is invisiable" is wrong to even think that. That is Hankinson's problem.He doesn't make changes when a player really is playing bad. If he did all the players play would pick up a notch knowing that there is competition for playing time. Look at the rotation of some of the other teams- chicago, Metros, dallas- they all have played different lineups. The players on those teams know what is expected if they want to start and play.The players on the bench also know that they might have a chance for playing time each week...playing less than 100% is not tolerated ... it should be like that in colorado...sitting chung for a game might spark him to play and someone else might shine if given some time.
     
  5. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually it was a question not a comment, and it wasn't rhetorical either.

    Actually, I've always thought that Hankinson has been too quick to pull players. I'm having to revise the impresssion though. It seems that Hankinson will pull young players, but the vets can suck all they want.

    It certainly couldn't hurt Chung to watch a game. I wonder if he'll respond by playing better or becoming a cancer. I make no claims about either, but I've heard rumors.
     
  6. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    Note Hendo's performance since his suspension, particularly in light of his comments regarding how beneficial it was for him to see the team playing and the game unfold from a vantage point he wasn't used to.

    Can you imagine Chungy saying the same? No. But I could see him coming on strong after a break. It doesn't even need to be a handled as any sort of punishment, and for many players it's not unusual to sit them on occasion simply to give them a mental rest as much as a physical one.
     
  7. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree that Chung needs something to get him going. If it is a benching and a sub role, then go for it. I can't say if that will work or not, but since the team has some depth in the midfield, maybe it is time to sit Chung for a view from a new vantage point. I don't know if Hanki will go that route, but I don't think it will hurt.
     
  8. Dom. FC

    Dom. FC Member+

    May 10, 2004
    Central US
    Has anyone thought about the (seemingly obvious) fact that having Spencer on the pitch draws defensive attention to him and that creates Chung's opportunities?
     
  9. Centennial

    Centennial Member+

    Apr 4, 2003
    Centennial
    How about this lineup?

    Kotchau Mastroeni Bourchers

    Henderson - Powell - DLT - Chung - Crawford

    Pedro - Spencer

    Lots of midfield options to feed Pedro and Spencer. We would have Beckerman and Trembley come off the bench as needed.

    Let Mastroeni school ADU.
     
  10. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    Borchers is not yet skilled enough to play in a 3-back system.

    An effective 3-5-2 depends largely on the use of at least one dangerously creative attacking midfielder, as well as midfielders not afraid to shoot. The Rapids have neither.

    Every single time we've seen Chung play inside rather than on the wing, he looks lost. This may be more a fault of the way Wank has him play in the center, but Chung has been at his most dangerous when he's allowed to roam on the wing and come inside for his chances, rather than staying central. In addition, he's not a ball winner, a requirement for every central midfielder in a 3-5-2.

    Finally, the lineup above has more defensively-minded midfielders (3) than attackers. Employing them as such would only serve to clog up the midfield and have our own players bumping in to each other.
     
  11. rapidfan

    rapidfan Member

    May 13, 2003
    Boulder
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    IMO, a 4-4-2 is a good fit for the players we have on the roster. Unless Chung has a great week of practice, he should be on the bench this Saturday.

    Kotch - Pablo - Bourchers - DLT
    Henderson - Powell - Beckerman - Crawford
    Pedro - Spenny
     
  12. Bonji

    Bonji Moderator

    Feb 4, 2003
    Denver, Colorado
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This could be true, however I think Chung gets marked heavily regardless of who is on the field with him. He is often on of the league's top scorers so defenses look for him. Spencer might help him get space, but I can't say how much.
     
  13. spot

    spot Member+

    Nov 29, 1999
    Centennial
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Another thing to consider, and once again I'm not sure it means Chung should start. Hankinson has given from the wings to the middle of the field to Henderson and Chung to be their playgrounds. If Crawford starts in place of Chung would he have the same duties, or would we play a little more traditional pushing Crawford wider than Chung plays? If so that would force Powell or Beckerman forward. That might not be a bad thing. We don't always use the width of the field all that well, which has helped teams lineup along the 18 to kill any and all attacks. Furthermore, Pedro seems to be able to head the ball. Now that we have a player with that skill it couldn't hurt to utilize it.

    On the 3-5-2, with the Rapids personel we could clog the midfield just fine, but I don't think it would solve any scoring issues. Right now Beckerman and Powell are holding midfielders with 4 defenders behind them. That means that at least initially we only have 4 attacking players in Chung, Hendo, and the strikers. With a 3-5-2 we'd have 3 defenders and two defensive mids. That might get 5 players in the attack, but who would be the attacking mid? Most of our mids are of the holding-mid, or defensive-mid flavor. The only one who's played an attacking mid in the past is Chung, and after LA you have to wonder if he's up to it. If he isn't we'd have 2 defensive mids, and a holding mid, and were back to a defensive posture with only 4 attackers. And, no space in midfield.
     
  14. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    Formations mean bupkus if the team doesn't have the personnel to effectively execute them in the way they're intended. This goes for the Rapids regardless of whether they play 4-4-2, 3-5-2, 4-5-1 ("it only looks like a 4-5-1") or the yet-to-be-used-by-the-Rapids 4-3-3.

    A 3-5-2 will only mean 5 attacking players if there are 5 attackers on the field, and the Wank elects to have all 5 of them actually attack.

    In theory there's nothing wrong with Wank's approach to the 4-4-2, but in the case of the Rapids it is a failure due to his not having the personnel for it. Playing two defensive/holding mids requires that you have 4 dynamic attacking players. When the Rapids were in their prime in mid-2003 they found success with this as Chung, Hendo, Carrieri and Spenny were firing on all cylinders. Even then, the great undoing of the Rapids was that they did not have a single bench player that could come in to that system as an effective sub or replacement.
     
  15. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Here's what I'd like to see, assuming Spencer is healthy

    Cannon
    Crawford - Borchers - Mastroeni - Kotschau
    Henderson - Powell - McDLT - Chung
    Spencer - Peguero

    I was very frustrated watching Beckerman kill attack after attack on Saturday night, especially in the second half. Looking at my notes I wrote down 5 seperate attacks in the second half that ended at Beckerman's feet, either through poor shot selection or poor passing choices. Because of that, I think he needs to sit and see if Spencer being back in the lineup helps to free up Chung. If this lineup doesn't click after 2-3 games and Chung is still AWOL, then consider sitting him.
     
  16. phills

    phills Member

    Nov 24, 1999
    don't know what game you were watching ... everytime i watched dela torre have the ball he passed to the other team...even the announcers were finally cold of him since he wasn't doing anything....he certainly isn't the answer.....
     
  17. JasonMa

    JasonMa Member+

    Mar 20, 2000
    Arvada, CO
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Perhaps not, but I think he's shown more so far this season than Beckerman has. The other possible lineup is:

    Cannon
    McDLT - Borchers - Mastroeni - Kotschau
    Henderson - Powell - Beckerman - Chung
    Spencer - Peguero
     
  18. Rei de Boston

    Rei de Boston New Member

    Mar 16, 2004
    I would initially tend to agree with this idea, and over time this probably accounts for some of Chung's success. However, that does not explain this season. Chung has played in every game this season. Spencer has only missed the last couple. In what game has Chung played the best? In my mind it was only the last part of the New England game and that form certainly didn't carry over to LA. With Spencer in the line up so far this year Chung has done nothing.

    I like the idea of sitting him to try and motivate him. However, too much squad rotation is a dangerous thing. I don't think Hanki is the coach to pull it off.
     
  19. FC5280

    FC5280 Member

    Dec 21, 2003
    Don't think Beckerman going to the sub bench is a great idea. would rather see Chung go on the sole fact that you can move De la Torre ANYWHERE in the midfield and he'll be good.

    I would go with

    Cannon
    Crawford-Borchers-Mastro-Kotch
    DLT-Beckerman-Powell-Hendo
    Spencer-Pedro
     
  20. bilfish

    bilfish New Member

    Feb 23, 2004
    Golden, CO
    Not sure if I like the idea mentioned that we should sit Chung "to motivate" him.

    Benching someone to think about the error of their ways is like getting sent to detention. That sucks. We're not kids. Strike that, I hated it even as a kid, and it certainly never motivated me to be good — just not to get caught again.

    I think the only reason to bench Chung is because we have a better alternative, a player who showed in practice and deserves the start.

    That motivates people to dream, and improve their game each week, knowing they might make the lineup. Chicago does this. DC does this. San Jose does this.

    With our back four providing decent lockdown duties, and Powell back in the midfield, we suddenly have a competition to put 5 players in 4 chairs, and the music's gonna stop Saturday. Now that is bound to be good for team competitiveness.

    Cheers,

    BilFish
     
  21. greenie

    greenie New Member

    Feb 6, 2000
    Boulder, CO
    As long as that midfield isn't in Los Angeles. He wasn't horrible last Saturday, but he wasn't exactly "good" at wide right, either.
     
  22. rapidfan

    rapidfan Member

    May 13, 2003
    Boulder
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    IMO - DLT played very well at RB in the home opener. Also, I'm having second thoughts about putting Chung on the bench, I'm leaning to one more starting opportunity for Mark.

    Kotch Pablo Bourchers DLT
    Chung Beckerman Powell Henderson
    Spenny Pedro
     
  23. phills

    phills Member

    Nov 24, 1999
    De la Torre ANYWHERE in the midfield and he'll be good.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    He wasn't good in the last game .... that is why is was pulled....
     
  24. Ringer

    Ringer Member

    Aug 7, 1999
    Littleton, CO
    Chungs gotta play. Get him the ball with a little space and he'll wake up. I know DLT had a field day with NE, but we haven't seen that much before or since. I would prefer Crawford out at RB. I like his ability to run at the defense.
     
  25. GoRapids

    GoRapids Member

    Sep 1, 1999
    Boulder CO
    The answer for Chung isn't benching him. Too harsh for a vet that has proven continually that's he's one of the most solid MLS players for years. What you need to do, is pull him next game at the 50th minute ... that sends a message, but doesn't upset the team too much. If he continues to fail for a few games in this scenario, then you replace him in the lineup.

    He's too good not to start. He draws a lot of attention from the other teams. Don't forget that aspect.
     

Share This Page