If it worked in Hockey back then, it should work during the MLS Cup Playoffs

I'd like to see this media guide because it's either in error or you're misreading it. During the so-called Original Six days circa 1942-1967, the top four teams qualified for the playoffs. After about 1940, the playoffs consisted of two best-of-seven series. That was the origin of the octopuss in Detroit. Eight legs for the eight wins needed to win the Stanley Cup. This could be refering to the time before 1932, because a friend who's a Ranger fan also qouted me from a similar Ranger source that they were the first team to win the Cup, in about 1932 I believe. Of course the first team to win the Stanley Cup was the Montreal AAA in 1893. Hell, the Rangers weren't even the first American champions. The Seattle Metropolitans won in 1917. But the system you describe could have been used between 1924 (when the Stanley Cup became the sole property of the NHL) and 1932 (the first year the Rangers won the Cup). In that way, the Rangers may have won the first Stanley Cup series.

 

We do?

 

Hockey isn't based on soccer at all. It's based on street fighting.

 

hockey and soccer have many similarities. They both are fast paced free flowing games. They both have offsides, they also have different levels of penalties. Majors and Minors compare to red and yellow cards. Hockey and soccer also similiar because goalies have specific areas were they can freeze or handle the puck and ball. Another similarity is the circle in the middle of the ice. I believe it is the same size as soccers middle circle.. I may be wrong. Another similarity between the sports is that in America they are much less popular the Baseball, Football and Basketball. They are also two leagues that have a playoff problem. The NHL playoffs are too long and the MLS playoffs include too much of the league. The two sports are very similiar in the fact that more than 1 country can compete in it (Baseball, Basketball and american football) They are both truly the most global games. As far as the gooning goes I have to say it is part of the game and I wish soccer had some more of it. If some of the world class soccer players took less dives (Mexico, Portugal) and played a more honarable style of soccer (watch an Ireland game or even a USMNT game) than soccers popularity in america will grow. Plus in hockey goons fight goons and that's what they are payed to do.

 

If the NHL ever used a two game series, they didn't use it for very long and it had to pre date WWII. Maybe in the 20s they did something like this, but I'm a pretty serious hockey fan and I've never heard of this. The NCAA used a total goals series in the NCAA hockey tournament at some point though.

As far back as I have a decent knowlege of modern original six NHL history, the playoffs were the top four teams playing best of seven series in the semis and the finals. You needed to win eight games, and as stated above, that's where the Red Wings get the octopus tradition.

I don't think hockey was based on soccer at all either. It's probably closer to lacrosse in basis. Lacrosse was played extensively in Canada by Native Canadians. The original puck was actually a lacrosse ball.

The circles on an hockey rink are only 20 ft in diameter, not 20 yards. Not everything has roots in soccer, but there are some obvious similarities between hockey and soccer. The rules had to evolve to solve similar issues like cherry-picking, but I don't think the people who created the sport tried to create soccer on ice.

 

The lore I've heard is that the puck didn't come about until one day a bunch of guys were playing, and their ball kept breaking things in the arena. The owner of the arena, pissed off, grabbed the ball and sliced it with a knife. The players realized the flat surface actually handled much better than a ball, and thus the puck was born.

 

I think that might be urban legend because I recently heard that the first puck was square. I don't know which one is correct. =-)

 

From the NHL website. It appears the Stanley Cup was a two game series for quite a long time!

http://www.nhl.com/hockeyu/history/cup/formats.html

1921-22 - The top two teams at the conclusion of the regular-season faced each other in a two-game, total-goals series for the NHL championship. The NHL champion then moved on to play the winner of the PCHA-Western Canada Hockey League playoff series in the best-of-five Stanley Cup Finals.

1922-23 - The top two teams at the conclusion of the regular-season faced each other in a two-game, total-goals series for the NHL championship. The NHL champion then moved on to play the PCHA champion in the best-of-three Stanley Cup Semifinals, and the winner of the Semifinals played the WCHL champion, which had been given a bye, in the best-of-three Stanley Cup Finals.

1923-24 - The top two teams at the conclusion of the regular-season faced each other in a two-game, total-goals series for the NHL championship. The NHL champion then moved on to play the loser of the PCHA-WCHL playoff (the winner of the PCHA-WCHL playoff earned a bye into the Stanley Cup Finals) in the best-of-three Stanley Cup Semifinals. The winner of this series met the PCHA-WCHL playoff winner in the best-of-three Stanley Cup Finals.

1924-25 - The first place team (Hamilton) at the conclusion of the regular-season was scheduled to play the winner of a two-game, total goals series between the second (Toronto) and third (Montreal) place clubs. However, Hamilton refused to abide by this new format, demanding greater compensation than offered by the League. Thus, Toronto and Montreal played their two-game, total-goals series, and the winner (Montreal) earned the NHL title and then played the WCHL champion (Victoria) in the best-of-five Stanley Cup Finals.

1925-26 - The format which was intended for 1924-25 went into effect. The winner of the two-game, total-goals series between the second and third place teams squared off against the first place team in the two-game, total-goals NHL championship series. The NHL champion then moved on to play the Western Hockey League champion in the best-of-five Stanley Cup Finals.

After the 1925-26 season, the NHL was the only major professional hockey league still in existence and consequently took over sole control of the Stanley Cup competition.

1926-27 - The 10-team league was divided into two divisions -- Canadian and American -- of five teams apiece. In each division, the winner of the two-game, total-goals series between the second and third place teams faced the first place team in a two-game, total-goals series for the division title. The two division title winners then met in the best-of-five Stanley Cup Finals.

1928-29 - Both first place teams in the two divisions played each other in a best-of-five series. Both second place teams in the two divisions played each other in a two-game, total-goals series as did the two third place teams. The winners of these latter two series then played each other in a best-of-three series for the right to meet the winner of the series between the two first place clubs. This Stanley Cup Final was a best-of-three.

Series A: First in Canadian Division versus first in American (best-of-five)
Series B: Second in Canadian Division versus second in American (two-game, total-goals)
Series C: Third in Canadian Division versus third in American (two-game, total-goals)
Series D: Winner of Series B versus winner of Series C (best-of-three)
Series E: Winner of Series A versus winner of Series D (best of three) for Stanley Cup
1931-32 - Same as 1928-29, except that Series D was changed to a two-game, total-goals format and Series E was changed to best of five.

1936-37 - Same as 1931-32, except that Series B, C, and D were each best-of-three.

 

I should send that one to snopes.com

 

NCAA hockey tournament continues to be a 2 game series. Until the final of course. As for hockey being more like lacrosse I would have to disagree. Lacrosse until the twentieth century was played on an area with no boundries. Modern box lacrosse has boards and that is because it made sense for towns to use their rinks for lacrosse in the summer (before roller hockey took off). Hockey aslo was played on a set area with boandries but had no boards, like soccer. Hockey did'nt adopt high boards until the 1910's. Also hockey was played by English French and Scanadanavian immigrants in Canada when it was first started. It did not have much to do with the Indians. I wonder what sport those Europeans played before they moved to North America? Maybe they played lacrosse... haha. Anyways the argument goes either way, but i am siding with a more soccer influence. As far as the puck being a ball for a while I would have to disagree. A ball would not make much sense. Ever see a ball on ice?? And if they did use some sort of ball I think it would be hard for them to convert to a flat puck. It would make all their shots awful at the time (curves on sticks were'nt used till the 50's-60's). Thus making people switch from a fast game and then going down to much slower style game.

 

That's about as intelligent a comment as the yapping heads who might say, "Soccer isn't based on hockey at all. It's based on hooliganism."

 

From the mouths of idiots...

 

If you're referring to NCAA Division I ice hockey, then you are incorrect. I don't know about D-II or D-III, but in D-I, all rounds are single elimination.

They used to be best of 3 series, all played at the site of the higher seed, up through the 1991 tournament. Then it was changed to all rounds being single elimination at a neutral site (including this year when Minnesota won at the "neutral site" of the XCel Energy Center in St. Paul

 

I think you are missing the greater point:

That being that the two legged system is extremely flawed. In response to this obvious deficiency (sp), the NHL made an easy decision to rid themselves of this bastard of all "playoff" formats many decades ago.

 

Re: Re: If it worked in Hockey back then, it should work during the MLS Cup Playoffs

You have failed to support this assertion.

 

Re: Re: If it worked in Hockey back then, it should work during the MLS Cup Playoffs

Agreed.

It's Catch-22. A two game system (both games at higher seed) denies seeds 5-8 a home playoff game. We can discuss whether playoff games in MLS are profitable because of lower attendance, but you don't see teams seeded 5-8 groaning because they have to play another home game.

A two game home and home gives no advantage to the higher seeded team.

 

I could be wrong, but I believe 2 game series are (or at least were) used in Division 1 in the playoff series leading up to the Final Four. (I specifically recall this being the case in the WCHA playoffs.) Once they got to the final four, it was single elimination at a neutral site (as you stated).

 

The Rangers won their first Stanley Cup in 1928 (their second year of existence). Since then, they have won in 1933, 1940 and 1994.

 

Nevermind.

 

Re: Re: Re: If it worked in Hockey back then, it should work during the MLS Cup Playoffs

It's a well supported fact; and has been supported over numerous threads by many on these boards for years.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: If it worked in Hockey back then, it should work during the MLS Cup Playoffs

The fact that it has worked so well in many leagues and tournaments around the world for many years effectively disproves your assertion.

 

Home-and-home in MLS

The main problem I have with MLS playoffs going to home-and-home is that it renders the regular season even more meaningless than it already is. The two-game total-goals format was designed specifically to NOT give a home-field advantage, and for MLS to maintain otherwise is disingenuous to say the least.

Right now, the MLS regular season does nothing but determine playoff seeding, the games themselves have nothing whatever to do with determining the champion. Assuming that MLS goes to the home-and-home format, all it would do is determine the playoff opponent, since any home-field advantage earned by winning more games than others is gone.

One of the main reasons why other leagues in other countries are as compelling as they are is that the champion is determined in every league game. MLS is forced to go to playoffs, because a balanced league schedule is, at the moment, impossible. To render the regular season games essentially useless (with the exception of eliminating two teams from the playoffs) does the league a grave disservice, in my opinion.