I was sent off...

Discussion in 'Referee' started by doug1500, Aug 25, 2007.

  1. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    IMO, it was a bit of bad refereeing. Fortunately, it was only in a church league between a few churches so it really isnt a huge deal. But here goes.

    I was getting forward with the ball from RB, down by the corner flag. I beat the opposing fullback, and he slides in from behind out of desperation. Its a pretty bad tackle, not the worse, but its a clear foul. From the ground I reach out and grab the ball out of his path before he gets to it and the ref whistles and runs over to send me off, without calling the foul. Instead he calls a FK for the "handball."

    What irks me is that he was in no position to make a good call on the foul. Like I said, its a church league and there are no linesmen, but the refs are normally pretty good.

    What do I do? Would there have been any sort of appeal? The churchleague is pretty similar to the rec-leagues I've played in. Hopefully I explained it well enough.
     
  2. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In most calls the opinion of the referee is all that matters and judgement calls cannot be appealed.

    Misapplications of the laws can be appealed. What were you sent off for? If you were sent off for something other than the seven sending off offenses ther may room for an appeal. Was it a second yellow?

    Bad positioning is a reality we must face. All refs try to be in the right place at the right time but even the best can be caught in the wrong place, even if they were perfectly positioned just five seconds ago.

    Interestingly, I tend to get caught out of position when a team is not very good or when there is a soccer genius playing. The odd thing is that in both cases the reason I get caught is the same in both cases: the ball is played to a place that I never would have anticipated. Most times I have a good idea where the pay is headed.
     
  3. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    I was sent off for "handball." It must have looked bad, because I jumped from the ground to grab the ball so the player who tackled me couldnt get it.

    So no luck on the appeal thing? Even the opposing coach told me it was a bad call. Oh well. Thanks for the reply.
     
  4. Hellobob57

    Hellobob57 New Member

    Jul 16, 2007
    Sounds like the sliding tackle from behind should have been easily called by the ref, but as a player, it's best to keep playing, and especially don't pick up the ball, until the ref blows his whistle.
     
  5. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    Yeah, thats what I thought. I guess that the ref just missed it.. I mean, it wasnt a vicious tackle, just really really mistimed and stupid.
     
  6. gosellit

    gosellit BigSoccer Supporter

    May 10, 2005
    Huh?
     
  7. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "Handball" is not one of the 7 sending off offenses. A player can be sent off for using his hand to prevent the ball from entering the net. That would not be written up as "handball." Handling the ball to prevent a player from playing it (like you did) can be USB and draw a caution or you could be booked for persistent infringment. If either of these were the second yellow you would be sent off, but not for "handball."

    In my opinion the referee may have misapplied the Laws in sending you off for a non-sending off offense. You have a shot at winning an appeal if the match report shows that you were sent off for "handball," assuming that your league has an appeal procedure that you follow.
     
  8. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    Damn... I learned something :D

    Well I guess that I had a bad ref... if something like this ever happens again in a more competive league I appreciate the help you guys gave me.

    So what was I sent off for? Since play had not stopped, wouldnt my actions be tantamount to just grabbing the ball away from somebody in open play? Doesnt that warrant a sending off?

    BTW.. what is "USB?"
     
  9. refereejoe

    refereejoe New Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Bay Area - Cal North
    USB is "unsporting behavior" - the most common cautionable offense. Reckless fouls fall into this category, and it is used as the "catch all" for any offense that clearly warrants a caution but might not be one of the specific offenses listed in Law 12 (such as dissent, encroaching on restarts, persistent infringement, etc).
     
  10. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    Well that must be it... thanks guys, appreciate the knowledge.
     
  11. dadman

    dadman Yo soy un papa

    Apr 13, 2001
    Gaithersburg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just to clarify for you, as your responses so far don't indicate it (or I'm being my usual dense self); USB is not a red-card/sending-off offense. If you were carrying a yellow card from some earlier call, USB could result in a second yellow and then a red (for the two yellows), but without a first yellow, there's no justification for showing red.

    Sounds like you have a basis for an appeal based on the misapplication of the rules.
     
  12. DadOf6

    DadOf6 Member

    Jul 4, 2005
    Taylorsville, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    USB is "unsporting behaviour" and it will draw a yellow card, not a red card. If the referee decided not to call the first foul then what you did is a clear case of USB. It is a tactical foul (a foul comitted to break up an attack or to prevent an opponent from playing the ball).

    If you drew a straight red you can appeal because the referee misapplied the rules. If you were carrying a previous yellow in that game then you should have been sent off, the referee is only guilty of improper mechanics/reporting.

    The key is if you had a previous yellow.
     
  13. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    Wow...

    So basically we have a referee who sent me off for "handball," instead of giving me my first yellow for USB? I'll let the foul he missed go as bad positioning. I don't know the guy personally, but I'll try to let him know how bad he messed up here.
     
  14. Gary V

    Gary V Member+

    Feb 4, 2003
    SE Mich.
    Doug, before you go accusing anyone of messing up, you need to find exactly what it was that you were sent off for. What was in the game report?

    If that was not one of the 7 sending-off offenses in Law 12, then you have grounds for an appeal of any suspension.

    Every year at recertification clinics we get stories of players who "got off" because a referee didn't write a report correctly. If the report says the player was dismissed for "dangerous play", the suspension is lifted. DP is an IFK foul, not a red card. If the ref would simply have written that the red card was for violent conduct because of the very dangerous slide tackle, the player would have been suspended.

    We're all guessing here, based on your recollections of what the referee said, why you got the card. You need to find it out from the game report. Ask the league.
     
  15. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    Well its not an extremely compepetive league by any means.

    But it is formal enough for me to be suspended for 1 game since its non-violent or whatever... not clear on the league rule we have.

    So I wouldnt be surprised about there being a match report, I'll look into it and report back.
     
  16. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    doug, its formal enough to have the ref report it somewhere since you now have a suspension. Start with finding out who assigns the refs, then find out what the report (in whatever format it was) indicates. Next find out any special rules for the league.

    My advice would be stick to FACT not opinion. Your position that he missed a foul is NOT FACT, it is opinion and as such cannot be challenged. What you can challenge is application of the LOTG, this is FACT. What was the red card for? If it was a legit reason in the report, again, you are stuck with opinion, if it was for "handball" then you have a reasonable appeal.
     
  17. Claymore

    Claymore Member

    Jul 9, 2000
    Montgomery Vlg, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given that this was a "church league", it kind of begs the question as to whether the ref was USSF-certified or simply an in-house ref.
     
  18. campbed

    campbed Member

    Oct 13, 2006
    New Hampshire, USA
    Hmmm, I forced the referee to make a decision, and I didn't like it. Lesson learned I hope. ;)

    Justice is not always served, it is just part of the game, get back to playing it.

    Agree with the previous posts. Unless it was a second caution, or you addressed the referee or the player in question in an aggressive or abusive manner after you picked up the ball, should not be a send off.

    In what way did you address the referee/player while you held the ball?
     
  19. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    campbed brings up a good point, when you grabbed the ball, did you turn and say anything or gesture?? Abusive language is a legit red card offense.
     
  20. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    Today I had a chat with my coach and he said that theres a group of guys at another church who handle the business aspect of the league, so sometime this week I'm hoping to talk to them.

    My coach also said that at the moment I'm suspended for one game. Its a mandatory suspension because I got a straight red, but its not more than one game because I committed a non-violent foul. That particular game is this Saturday. My coach also said that he will work on getting the match report. Hopefully everybody makes the right decision in the league and you guys can just tell me if justice was served.

    Claymore... I will look into that

    campbed... point taken, it certainly was a stupid move on my part. And no.. I did not even speak to the ref, maybe my body language was a little frustrated, but I really didnt think my attitude had much to do with the card, because as soon as he got over to us, he sent me off. I just turned around and walked off.
     
  21. doug1500

    doug1500 New Member

    Nov 20, 2005
    USA
    Okay guys, I managed to get a hold of the report. I dont have a scanner so I'll just type in the info. I'm a bit surprised actually - see for yourself. I think this ref has a made a mess of this particular match. I'll just include the stuff about the sending off, if you guys need more I do have a copy of this to refer to.
    Code:
    [CENTER]REFEREE MATCH REPORT[/CENTER]
    
    MISCONDUCT
    
    # - 4
    TIME - 25:50
    CODE - E4 - Denies goal by handling the ball
    REASON - "4 deliberately denied a clear chance on goal by grabbing the ball from opponent while in play" 
    
    
    Professional foul? :rolleyes:

    As things stand now, my coach said that this situation is being looked at but its unlikely that I will be "unsuspended."

    Claymore... I looked that up with my coach, he said that since its a recreational church league, the refs volunteer and just need to pass some sort of test to prove their knowledge or whatever. Some refs are certified to referee other more competitive leagues though.

    Appreciate you guy's help VERY much.
     
  22. refereejoe

    refereejoe New Member

    Aug 20, 2007
    Bay Area - Cal North
    Sending a player off for deliberately handling the ball to deny a goal-scoring opportunity is the correct application of the law. Typically this is seen when a defender bats the ball with an arm to block a shot on goal that would otherwise go in.

    Referees look at 3 factors in judging "denial of a goal scoring opportunity" (DOGSO) when it relates to handling:

    1) Distance to the goal - how close was the ball to entering the goal when the handling occurred?
    2) Direction of flight - was the ball actually heading towards the goal?
    3) # of Defenders - was the defender who handled the ball the last man?

    I have absolutely no idea how this criteria could even apply to your situation, however, as in your description you specify that you are in control of the ball and running away from your own goal!

    Maybe the referee thought you denied yourself a goal? :)
     
  23. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    If the corner flag you were near was in your attacking third, your coach should complain about the referee to the league. Whether the league takes any action or not, he should not remain silent. I am not a referee so I am ethically free to criticize the ref. If you were in your attacking third either the ref is incredibly incompetent or both incompetent and dishonest for filing a false match report. It would be helpful if the opposing coach would verify to the league that the handball occurred in your attacking third. As a coach I would be even more concerned about getting rid of the ref than apealing your one game suspension.
     
  24. heez

    heez New Member

    May 17, 2007
    Edinburgh, Scotland
    I just read through all of this and not being a Ref, i would do what Rca2 says and complain about the ref. (As long as what you've said is true) If you were in control and got hacked at, then handled then you are no where near gonna be stopping a goal scoring opperchancity. Complain your heart out.
     
  25. AspireNatlRef

    AspireNatlRef Member

    Jul 13, 2007
    New Orleans
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    While I cannot understand a send off in this situation, in the opinion of the referee, it may have been a case of what the ATR states is "provoking confrontation by handling the ball" 12.28.9
    This is stated as a CAUTION. This must occur after the ball has be whistled, so may not really be applicable. However I could see how a misapplication of this Advice could lead to the situation.

    I can't figure out for the life of me where this could be a DGH, but I wasn't there.

    The complete text can be found at
    http://images.ussoccer.com/Documents/cms/ussf/AdvicetoRef06.pdf

    Maybe that can provide some information or insight to what the call was...

    ANR
     

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