To hate VAR or to hate the LOTG? That is the question [R]

Clearly onside when taking into account the perspective and the affect it can have on a straight line in different areas of the pitch from an elevated angle.

Look how far behind the LB is from the guy "guarding" Shaw.

 

In the top photo.....The Comms after their continuous felitation of utd throughout the game. Sounded so relieved when this was not called. Even tho they thought it was offside.

 

Relief, indeed ....

That's the problem with all this - the point of definition has to be done by someone (or some machine) approximating the exact moment when a ball left a foot, and then this gets snap-shop related to a moment of another picture which must be synchronized to it (even though it can't be actually measured that way). It can only be approximated. (Just as the linesman can also only approximate, but (I suppose the argument is) he has less chance of getting it always right.

But the question remains: do we want (or need) it to be always right?
Because the result we get from wanting that (I don't, of course) is dozens of otherwise good and sometimes great goals in a season where they are chalked off because of this ridiculous close measuring technical ability.
When, in fact, no-one wants to see these decisions. It matters to absolutely nothing whether Shaw was a few millimeters offside or onside yesterday.

No-one wants to even see these kinds of decisions made over millimeters. There's no 'effin' advantage in millimeters. (No-one, excluding of course, Hobo and 4 or 5 other people who probably taunted some prophet who liked the excitement and human error quotient in the old human refereeing set-up, and who are now required to wander the face of the earth forever extolling the need for VAR for their sins ....)

If they must stick with VAR they should change the rule to daylight on the other side of the player, not the edging into the lie of the first bit of the player's damn body. At least that would give some degree of rationality to the idea of an advantage being gained.

 

What does your architectural perspective tell you about the ball leaving the passing player's foot?

 

I’ve been trying to tell them about perspective for a long time. Suddenly there it is.

 

This changes nothing whatsoever... you’d just be talking about a measurement made with that specific metric in mind, but the decisions would remain binary and we would still see very close calls.

 

Applies to refs and linesmen too. So this remains a very poor argument against VAR when the entire topic of the conversation is “how do we get rid of the most obviously bad calls?”

 

Well, we have to differ there. It would affect the nature of why a person/fan might be inclined to want to accept VAR as a system of such accurate minute measurement. People, as you've noticed, don't much care for these decisions right now, when they are required to be measured and come out against the goal ...

If the Man Utd player had been a half inch offside yesterday the same spate of complaints would have instantly emerged. You must see that....???

 

It's not an argument against VAR. It's merely an opinion about what people might be prepared to take instead of tying themselves to the notion of the need for absolute accuracy.

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There is one other thing though

By getting rid of the (relatively) few obviously bad calls, we are entering into a state of knowing about the miniscule denial measurement of dozens (maybe hundreds) of calls that most people don't actually want to see adjudicated in that manner, because under normal circumstances they don't see these mistakes as a big error when shown as millimeter or inch errors in instant replay after the game. Basically, because it didn't look "off" to the average viewer during the game.
So, no matter what, as it stands, its a case of a particularly bitter pill to make the situation well. Isn;t it?

 

and yet, artist M. C. Escher, called it on!!

 

To some.

But for those with those priorities, that might never change. So either way the only real path forward is to keep improving from here and hoping to win those kinds of people over... dissenting opinion in this thread is proof enough that it’s not enough to do what you’ve set out to do... so they have to improve from here, and I feel confident they will.

 

But it would still be making those minute measurements and people would say the exact same things they are now, there would still be incredibly close calls. It’s the same exact system. Whether or not more people would accept it, that’s impossible to say..

This very example, the offside with Luke Shaw... people were in this case upset about a goal which counted. So it’s actually not just about decisions “against” a goal, as you’ve said.

Yes of course... but what does that have to do with anything? VAR or not, this goal would have stood. The refs didn’t say it was off, and VAR confirmed that he in fact was onside. So a call which was close, in which the refs and VAR agreed, people are still upset about VAR.

If anything this is a point in favor of my view... who cares about people who will complain no matter what? The only thing that matters is if the calls are right or wrong, and with a binary rule it’s always going to be one way or the other.

 

Got to love that optimism Hobo. Don't ever lose it.

But for VAR...

 

My point would be... how can they not. Lots of other league do a better job, the examples are right there — tweak rules where necessary, look to other leagues for their pace, and use monitors for the real tight decisions... pretty simple stuff.

 

It's a goofy-looking situation, but it's like that weird hawkeye/goal line tech issue, it's so unique and required a number of things to happen just so... hard to guard against this. For instance, even if they tweak the handball cannot contribute to a goal rule to specifically exclude this because it looks goofy and feels unfair, that opens up a whole host of other problems that immediately spring to mind.

It doesn't feel good, no question about that.

 

It's ludicrous.

 

Something is terribly wrong with the laws . That should have been a goal 100%.

 

It feels like it should have... it's a blind spot in the law, I agree.

 

Yeah, that one deemed hand ball as he’s falling to the ground, his head turned away from the ball and it’s played against his arm.
Fkn amazing. Especially After the 2 handed airiel one against us the other day that was refused.
Got to love Var.

This has nothing to do with the law, it’s the interpretation of the law, and each referee having different ideas of that law. It’s still far too subjective. Far to unfair on the players and certainly not the way to help “Anyone believe that VAR is a good thing.”

One of the arguments was that the ball rebounded to Kane therefore setting up the goal. What in the case of a defender saving a scoring chance, in our case it wasn’t even reviewed.

Im wondering if instead of using, rotating, different field referees who all have their own ideas of the laws.
To using var specific trained ‘refs’ who all take the same classes and exams of the laws before sitting in front of the telly. Too outlandish?

maybe architects.

 

It is not VAR. It is not John Oliver. That is the current law on handball.