To hate VAR or to hate the LOTG? That is the question [R]

Yeah - “lol”

 

why are ppl are mocking this idea. does anyone have any counter-proposals, other than Hobo's mantra "VAR is wonderful leave it alone" ??

I think the 10cm proposal acknowledges 2 things:
(a) it's impossible to be 100% accurate (camera angles, shadows, video frame rates, etc) and
(b) applying zero tolerance negates the intent of the offside rule and introduces mockery to the process (armpits!!)

so what do you do? status quo won't work -- 2/3 of the paying customers absolutely hate it, the players hate it, managers hate it and the clubs are getting very nervous about its long-term affect on the game's marketability.

VAR is here to stay. but it needs to be adjusted before more fans turn away.

so again -- does anyone have any counter-proposals, other than Hobo's mantra "VAR is wonderful leave it alone" ??

 

Do who measures that 10cm. The same person who measured the 2 mm. Nothing had changed. It's F'kn pathetic. A rediculess idea that is aimed to let people think they're really addressing something.
Next up. It's only 9cm. It's offside. No it was 11.
It's just poor appeasement.

And to be fair I thing Hobo feels the same.

 

There'll never be 100% agreement on the "9mm vs 11mm" thing - and yes 10mm is arbitrary (I get all that) - but surely applying some tolerance to recognize that 1mm or 2mm provides no advantage makes sense?

what do you suggest happens to try to fix things? Or are you OK with leaving things as is?

 

No I'm not ok with it. I'd have thought that obvious. My thought is to change the offside law to make it simple for officials and fans to understand. Then there's no need for this farcical VAR.

Offside was a simple law when we were growing up with the game. Anyone beyond the last defender when the ball is played forward was offside. Too simple for some, the crying came when someone not involved with the play or too lazy to move up gets called offside. So the tinkerers tinkered and the law became a mess for linesmen and fans alike. Then came the cure all to turn it into an American game and they called it Video Assisted Referee. Now it's just F'kn farcical. Nobody talks about the game and goals anymore 90% of match discussions involve VAR much loved by virtual manager type players.
No! I'm not saying go back to the good old days. I'm saying something simpler for all.

Change the law, dump VAR.

 

gonna happen

not gonna happen

 

'Fraid you're right. Once these gimmicks get in.......

 

Every single decision by every ref in every match is a "judgement call".

 

VAR already acknowledges a, and as for b the same exact zero tolerance will apply to the new line that has been established.

I've said both these things the entire time, so you saying my argument is "VAR is wonderful leave it be" is just flat-out wrong. You'll have a handful fewer goals ruled out by someone being offside by an armpit. And I'm fine with that, that's a win. But regardless of any future VAR improvements, the reality is VAR this entire time has been doing EXACTLY what it was intended to do -- it completely eliminated obvious binary decisions which refs previously would have missed, and it gave refs a chance to revisit any given important incident to give them the opportunity to double check and fix it. It was never intended to get everything right, because once again, that is impossible, under these rules or any others. They can improve from here, which they will with this proposed change along with others like perhaps relying on pitch-side monitors more often... but VAR being installed was already an improvement by all metrics in terms of getting calls right. That's what VAR is about, getting things more right in a general overall sense than a league without VAR.

 

Munich vs Leipzig this past weekend, could have ended up being the title decider in Germany.
Attacker was definitely fouled in Leipzig's box... but only after he was passed the ball when clearly in an offside position.
Ref missed it and awarded the pen, linesman missed it, VAR corrected the miss.
Leipzig held on for the draw to keep their title challenge alive.

 

That miss was crazy... probably should have won it. Bit awkward on the bobble, but wow. Thought he was gonna bury it.

Nkunku is a legit player. Only 22 years old, he's could be a huge star one day.
I like this Leipzig team. Would be too bad to see them torn apart like Monaco a few years ago.

 

I disagree with your (a) response. If "VAR acknowledges" that it's impossible to be 100% accurate, why is it being applied as if it is? what's the damn point of that?

and yes, I can live with the 10cm tolerance - not perfect, but it would be agreed up front by all concerned and ... as I've said repeatedly ... would take into account the spirit of the law (i.e. attacker advantage).

couldn't be bothered debating these points. right now it looks like the Prem / IFAB etc will put their thinking caps on over the summer and make changes. let's see what happens.

 

Within VAR protocol is an acknowledgement that it cannot get things 100% accurate, and shouldn't aim to... so I'm confused by what you mean.

How is it being applied "as if it is"? In the cases being addressed by this change, VAR is just trying to rule the best it can on a binary rule according specifically to the rulebook itself -- players are either onside or offside, period, and offside position is defined as any small part of the body which can score a goal being beyond the 2nd to last defender, and no matter what adjustments/changes you make to the rulebook any offside ruling (by a ref or by VAR) will HAVE to come down that way, because it's a binary outcome no matter what the fine print.

It is a change to the rule which is addressing the silly optics of someone being offside by an armpit, and the discomfort that a lot of supporters have with the visuals of those disallowed goals. I don't know what this has to do specifically with your notion of "attacking advantage", especially since "attacking advantage" is not the crux of the offside rule... "offside position" is the crux of the rule, because someone in offside position gaining no "attacking advantage" is still, by the rules, offside if determined to be affecting play.

Fair enough. From the beginning I'm all for improving VAR, there will always be something to improve. So yeah, I hope they do a good job and it makes, generally, the bulk of supporters happier. I'm just saying, for me personally I'll be happy either way because they've already eliminated the REALLY obvious errors. And that's IMO the most important part, it's the reason to have VAR in the first place.

 

Horrendous call, how in the hell could they call that? Really poor.

 

A VAR supported Horrendous Call.
Yup, I’m so happy that VAR is getting rid of those REALLY obvious errors.
It’s farcical and causes more trouble than it’s worth.

 

VAR is only as good as the clowns running it.

 

Or as bad.

Ref: Penalty
Var: Gee I’m not sure. I’ll just go with Fred. We’re having dinner at his place tonight and he’s doing Var for me next match.
3 minutes later. Penalty

 

Controversy in the Wolves-Foxes game. Wolves goal called back for another hairline offside call. It looks like it was a pass backwards to me, so I don't understand how it could've been offside.

 

Unfortunately looks like the right call. Passing back to the corner-taker gets flagged offside pretty regularly... but this one was very, very close. At these times you just have to credit Leicester for pushing out aggressively.

But yes, it looks really shitty. Happy for a solution which does away with these calls, but for the rest of the year would be unfair to not call them after they've impacted a number of clubs already.

 

Handball isn't really obvious, it's been a constant struggle for refs for years... any time a defender has an arm away from his body but isn't looking at the ball and isn't aware what's happening, there's a chance a very controversial pen could be given. With or without VAR. And also, without VAR this bad handball would have remained as called -- a bad handball.

But the "really obvious" calls, which are completely eliminated due to VAR, are offside incidents in which players are very clearly offside but the refs didn't spot it for whatever reason, so their goal which obviously shouldn't count ends up counting.

 

you never answer this question directly -- what advantage did Wolves get from that guy's heel being an inch or two closer to the goal? and fgs don't just say "that's what the rule says" - pls answer the actual question.

so far you've dismissed the 10cm leeway idea - so ,,,, any other ideas? what would you do?

 

For me, again. It sort out the freekin law.