I hate Chivas USA

1) WHAT'S WRONG WITH PEOPLE ENTERING THE COUNTRY ILLEGALY?
I don't know what is funnier? The fact that someone may have gone there in the thread when it wasn't really necessary. Or the question itself. Last time I checked, "ILLEGALY" means "AGAINST THE LAW". Therefore, by definition it is a CRIMINAL ACT. A person who commits a criminal act is a CRIMINAL.

Please, spare me with the "you're just a racist/xenophobe" thing. I JUST LUVE THE DOUBLE STANDARD. It's the same for everyone no matter where they come from or go to without permission. . When my sister left the states to work in another country illegaly, SHE WAS A CRIMINAL because she was commiting a CRIMINAL ACT. She was breaking the LAW. Had she been deported before becoming legal, it would have served her right. I love her but that is how I feel and felt. It has nothing to do with being a nice person or racist. By the way, MEXICANS NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT HOW THEY HANDLE THIER OWN SOUTHERN BORDER. Yeah, you guys show the Central Americans a lot of mercy and compassion. You chase them down and do the same things that we do here. YOUR HYPOCRISY SICKENS ME.

2) WE WOULD NEVER BE PERMITED TO FIELD A TEAM IN THE LMN. Wake up, you must be dreaming. I have been to a Mexican League game before in the DF. They HATE us. It would be seen by most people as just another attempt by us to COLONIALIZE AND CULTURALLY DOMINATE your country. HUGO SANCHEZ HAS ALREADY SAID THAT HE WOULD BASICALLY DIE BEFORE ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN BECAUSE IT WOULD HELP US IMPROVE OUR FUTBOL (somehow he still believes that Mexico is "el giangante de concacaf" (The giant/elite power in concacaf). EVEN THE LMN HAS A STRICT FOREIGN PLAYER LIMIT RULE.

3) FYI: MANY ILLEGAL ALIENS DO PAY TAXES. NOT "ALL DO" OR "ALL DO NOT". That still does not make it right that they are breaking the law. WHen my sister worked abroad as an illegal alien, was it the other country's governments fault that she was not paying taxes. NO. OF COURSE NOT. THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST RIDICULOUS THINGS THAT I HAVE EVER HEARD. She wasn't SUPPOSED TO BE THERE WORKING.

4) LET'S GIVE CHIVASUSA A CHANCE AND SEE HOW IT GOES. They are here now. SO we will have to just GET OVER IT and MAKE SURE THAT THEY FOLLOW THE SAME RULES AS EVERY OTHER TEAM.

FINALLY: MANY (NON-MEXICAN) LATINOS WILL FEEL NO CONNECTION WITH THE TEAM AT ALL. My wife is one example. Many of my friends and coworkers are others. FOR THE CHIVAS REPRESENTS A MEXICAN FOR OF XENOPHOBIA OR ELITISM BECAUSE OF THE CHIVAS NO FOREIGNERS POLICY. Talk to me about having open arms when CHIVAS changes the policy that has become a "tradition". My wife's/coworker's/friend's relatives could never play for the REAL CHIVAS (even though they are latinos). WHO IN THE HELL WANTS TO SUPPORT A TEAM THAT WOULD HAVE THEIR DOORS CLOSED TO THEM NO MATTER HOW GOOD THEY ARE?

Turicato, kinda sounds like DISCRIMINATION to me. Oh that's when WE DO IT. I forget when someone other than a yank does it, it's called "tradition".

CHIVAS ARE HERE NOW. SO LET'S JUST SEE HOW IT PLAYS OUT. OF COURSE I WILL CHEER AGAINST THEM. NO MATTER WHO THEY PLAY. THEY HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO BE HERE. THEY DID EVERYTHING THE RIGHT WAY. AND I HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO HOPE CHEER AGAINST THEM.

 

No, no, it's Natty Boh alright.

 

Actually, last time I checked, not every violation of the "law" is criminal. You don't go to jail for being an illegal immigrant and you don't have a criminal trial. I can give a dozen other examples why your simplistic description is not quite right.

I love it when white conservatives start to pick up on this "double standard" language. What is the double standard you're talking about? The fact that Mexicans do it too? That's a dumb argument. Being racist/xenophobic is wrong, no matter who you are. But what constitutes "racism" and "xenophobia" does depend on the context. Not really a double standard if you're actually aware of the situation.

And yet it's actually more lenient than MLS's...

ANd yet most of the studies that have quantified that impact on illegal immigrants on local economies have found that they add more to the local economy than they take away-- either through sales taxes or by allowing marginal business to stay in business.

You know, you don't win an argument just because you have a latina wife or a honduran granddad. I'm really sick of this line of argument-- it's completely irrelevant and utterly unconvincing. I wouldn't mind if it went away completely.

 

Yeah, the American public will really go for this idea...

Go back in mommy's room and ask her to make you breakfast.

 

Mexicans wouldn't care because if a MLS team were to set up shop in Mexico it would not be the same as Chivas.


Chivas can get away with saying that they are going to be predominantly Mexican/ hispanic because there is a market for that here in the states and there is the preception that there is a large pool of players to chose from to make a competitive team.

An MLS team in Mexico has ZERO marketability, heck some MLS teams here in the states have zero marketability. I wouldn't be to worried about an MLS team in Mexico because if they tried similar policy's to Chivas it would fail because it has no appeal. Now if was just a White owner who used their Foreign spots for Yanks I don't think there still would be that much of a problem, but I think he might have a hard time finding players that are capable of playing in the Mexican league that would want to go to it.

 

1) Thanks for assuming that I'm white. I'M BLACK. ALL DAY LONG. ALL YEAR LONG.

2) You can be DEPORTED if you are caught catching the border illegaly and you can be deported if you are caught in violation of another criminal act.

3) Never did I question the contributions of illegal aliens. Since I daily work to assist them with their families nutrional and medical needs, and I live in the Barrio, I can vouch from my own personal experience THAT MANY ARE WONDERFUL, KIND PEOPLE. So is my sister. She was a very kind, caring ILLEGAL ALIEN. She contributed a lot to the people that she worked with. Her work was noble. SHE JUST SHOULD HAVE GONE ABOUT IT THE LEGAL WAY. FIRST.

So. I won't assume who/what you are. I know who/what I am. I'M NOT LOOKING TO WIN AN ARGUMENT. I'M JUST GIVING AN OPINION.

The fact that I have busted my a$$ to be trilingual, or have a latina wife or work endless hours (many of the free--but that's my choice, I like helping people, even if it's off the clock--because eveyone needs help sooner or later) and that I live in the Barrio don't "substantiate" anything. It just means that I have maybe been a bit more exposed then some other people.

That's were I'm coming from. No apologies, no excuses.
But it's clear that you are way more advanced than I am Special K.

Maybe one day, I'll be a enlightend as you...

 

first of all Chivas isnt really looking into attracting latin people so ur wife wouldnt really matter in that. does she like the CHivas in Mexico? if yes then maybe she does count but women arent really into soccer so u cant base things on women. and i cant believe ur making a big deal out of ur sister. is the government and their laws more important than ur sister and ur own blood? laws r meant to be broken and they will never be followed by everyone. people doing illegal things dont really affect u or do they? and dont tell me that they affect ur next door neighbor or some guy u know cause that doesnt apply to u. and u should understand how mexicans feel when theyre always getting discriminated against. u said ur black and im sure u sometimes have to be the victim or racist people and it doesnt feel nice does it?

 

1. Regarding the Latin support of Chivas, I merely responded to some people's assertions that Chivas will draw a wide range of GENERAL Latin support. I never said that they would. Check the posts. Most of my non-Mexican Latin friends (men)have no interest. Some do.

2. My sister- Many people who talk about this matter have no idea what it is like to have a relative who is an illegal alien. Any hypocrite can say "Oh, those people"... I have the b@lls to be honest about the fact that the standard that you set for the other guy should be the same for you. In that case, MY SISTER WAS WRONG. Most people from this country don't know what it is like to worry about their loved one being deported or detained. They also don't know it's like to use the only money that you have in your bank account TO WIRE MONEY WESTERN UNION TO A GREEDY "COYOTE" in a border state because he's upped the price after bringing your friend's brother across (anyone who calls me a "hypocrite" for helping my friend's family out can kiss my SS. The 11 year old kid was already here. My friend's family had already blown all their cash to get the boy here, so it wasn't really the time to have discussions on whether or not I agreed with HOW he got here. There's a time for policy discussions and a time to act--I didn't want the kid hurt. Luckily, everything worked out after I came up with the cash to loan my friend) I DO KNOW WHAT THOSE THINGS ARE LIKE.

I am glad that my sister eventually became legal. I can't be a hypocrite and say "oh, that's wrong" if I won't apply the same LEGAL standard to myself and my loved ones. That would be very self serving. Yes, I love my sister. She was WRONG to have gone about things that way.

3. RACE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY VIEWS ON ILLEGAL and/or LEGAL IMMIGRATION. WRONG IS WRONG. When I was thinking about trying to immigrate to Canada and obtain a work permit in Costa Rica I found out what the rules are. Costa Rica is really hard. Very, very hard. MUCH HARDER THAN OURS. I don't care if you are coming from the northern border or wherever else. Each nation has the right to legislate it's own immigration policy. YOUR RACE DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE TO ME. I DON'T DISCRIMINATE ON RACE. People make choices. I had the choice to attempt to enter Canada illegally or to go to CR under false pretenses and try to get work under the table. I chose to try to do things the right, LEGAL way. REQUESTING THAT PEOPLE DO THINGS LEGALLY IS NOT DISCRIMINATION NOT IF YOU ATTEMPT TO HOLD THE SAME STANDARD FOR EVERYONE. REGARDLESS OF ORIGINS/RACE.

4. Of course I know what it is like to be discriminated against here in the US and in MEXICO (especially in the DF, much worse than anything I have ever experienced here). NO, it doesn't feel nice. That is why I have dedicated my personal and professional life to helping people here where I live. People who can't fend for themselves and don't know what their (or in many cases, their children's) rights are. Many times from the people who look just like them and speak their native tongue. People who have been here longer and decide to take advantadge of them, trying to steal their money.

I HAVE NEVER SUPPORTED DISCRIMINATION. CONSISTENT AND ENFORCED IMMIGRATION LAWS DO NOT = DISCRIMINATION. IF WE ARE GOING TO REVISE THEM AND DISCUSS THEM THEN FINE. I DON'T CARE WHERE YOU ARE FROM, WHAT COLOR YOU ARE. I respect the laws in whatever city, state or country that I am in. If you treat everyone respectfully and equally, then you are not discriminating against anyone. IF THE LAWS ARE THE SAME FOR EVERYONE, NO ONE IS SHOULD BE ABOVE THE LAW.

So you can the place the race card if you want. I prefer to stick with the law and/or fight the ones that I don't personally agree with... If I treat everyone the SAME, then that is NOT racism. You can disagree with my point of view. Fine. But you can never convict me of racism. You can accuse me all you want... La gente en mi barrio me conoce... Ellos saben que tipo de hombre yo soy...

 

!!!

I'm sorry-- it's just that 99% of the people that spout the same one-note crap are white dudes. Add that to the fact that the most tired line on BigSoccer is: my ridiculous opinion is valid because (a) I married a latina or (b) I'm latino/black/persian/other.

Many of these people are no such thing and are hiding behind the anonymity of the internet. I never seem to meet them in real life. If that's not the situation with you, I apologize-- but recognize that your line/style of argument would make you one of the very few people in that camp that are authenticaly what they say they are.

True. But you can be forced to pay fines for parking violations and you can be forced to pay fines if you destroy public property. One of those is not criminal. ONe of those is, yet they both have the same remedy. The fact that you can be deported for being a criminal doesn't mean that only criminals are deported. Pretty clear that you're wrong on this.

If you want to argue about the law, we can, but I can assure you that you're at a distinct disadvantage arguing with an international lawyer who has to immigrate himself from time to time... Just accept that you're wrong on this matter of law.

Considering how you came off in your first post, I'm not worried as coming off as arrogrant-- I just challenged on one point that you're just wrong on. Sorry. Facts is facts. I don't bring in how many languages I speak or how "real" background is, typically, because it's not really relevant to cyberspace. But if you want to get in that pissing contest, trust me, you're not going to win.

So which double standard are you talking about? The idea that we in the US should welcome Mexican/Mexican-American investment in our league with open arms when it isn't clear that they'd do the same for us? That's funny-- I wouldn't call that a double standard-- I'd call that "doing right". You keep on saying "WRONG IS WRONG" but you don't seem to have a clear idea of what that is. For example:

You say illegal immigration is WRONG-- but then you talk about paying off a coyote. Hey, that's breaking the LAW. WHat happened to WRONG IS WRONG? Or are you the only one who has that power to transcend the law because the situation is really, really exceptional?

 

Re: !!!

THIS HAS nothing to do with futbol in chivas USa country?

why they do not split the thread and send that talk to world rivalries or Politics'

 

Re: !!!

Unfortunately it does-- some people's feelings about Chivas USA for some reason are linked to their feelings about Mexican-Americans in general. Unless you're going to split those folks out of the Chivas forum altogether, I don't know what you should do. Look at the title of this thread--- people don't "hate" Chivas because of their soccer-- they haven't even played a game yet...

 

Re: !!!

I am a white male and I hate chivas because they are a racist institution. And trust me it will affect thier football. It is so arrogant for them to think that they can use guys who can't get onto a proffesional team with thier special brand of affirmative action and beat a team of men who actually put in the work to get where they are. I hope chivas fails miserably and that PUMAS comes in to the league to show them how things are done properly.

VAI PUMAS VAI!!!!

by the way, I'm a season ticket holder for the GALAXY. I would say that approx. 35% of the people at our home games are white. The most popular player on the team WITH THE FANS is Carlos Ruiz, a guy from guatemala. before him it was Mauricio Cienfuegos a guy from el salvador. The most capped player for the united states national squad is cobi jones. Most popular young player in america is freddy adu. and yes, the face of the MLS for the past few years has been Landon Donovan, for which I will not apologize. He is a great player.

I think its absolutely ridiculous that you accuse anyone who is truly a fan of MLS of being racist or xenophobic. I absolutely resent Chivas for trying to divide people in a sport that has done so much to bring different groups of people together.

what I'm really trying to say is - "fvck the goats"

 

I think some of us are missing some of the points, here's a few:

- It's not about an MLS team with a foreign owner, it's about a foreign team in the USA. It’s like if Real Madrid went to Italy as "Real Madrid Italy", almost no one would like that, I wouldn't, and I don't like Chivas USA

- I don't mind the idea of Chivas using all Mexican players in Mexico, after all they are in Mexico, but I don't support the idea of using all Hispanic players in an MLS team, even if the players are born in the US

- About immigrants, this country as it is today was built by immigrants, and all of us who are legal came from illegal ancestors, so stop the racism, take that somewhere else.

FM

 

Whats wrong with requiring players to know spanish? A lot of jobs demand that people speak English, but English isnt the official language of the US. Spanish isnt either. Both languages are used as often so requiring one of the languages isnt a big deal but most jobs in the US require English and they dont care about knowing Spanish so why should Chivas USA?

 

Umm, no. My grandparents came through Ellis Island, legally, and were law abiding Americans for the entirety of their lives.

(edited - watch the offensive stuff, guys)

 

Again, you're wrong. The VAST majority of Americans only speak English. It's the common language of major media, road signs, billboards, most everything you can think of, really...

 

No, its only the language in which our official documents, laws, signs, betting odds and porno titles are written in. That makes it our official language. So suck it, gringo.

Duh.

Maybe your crack dealer feels that way, but the rest of us non Hispanic folk see no reason to learn any more Spanish than we have already. ChivasUSA isn't a Taco Bell; there's no need to speak Spanish to play decent soccer. Brazilians somehow manage.

Becuase its ChivasUSA, not ChivasTijuana. I'm all more languages, but forcing employees to speak a foreign language to play soccer is as good of an idea as drinking the tap water in Mexico.

 

English isnt the official language. Show me something stating that its the official language.

 

Re: !!!

Look, I'm getting tired of saying this, but I'll try again-- no pro-Chivas person on these boards thinks that everyone who opposes Chivas USA does so for racist reasons. That said, some anti-Chivas folks can't seem to separate the soccer from the cultural debate. A minority of those folks may actually be racist. Pointing this out in no way means that I, or others, think that you in particular are a racist. But it has to be done.

Why? There's something special about true MLS fans that makes them different from average men?

 

I hate Chivas just as I hate Mexico. They will prove to be bitter rivals for a lot of MLS teams. I think a lot of Chivas fans will show up in "away" venues further driving the rivalry. I don't have anything against the peoples or many cultures of Mexico. I speak some Spanish and have traveled in Mexico, and loved it. But being a gringo-yanqui-estadounidoense , I despise the Mexican football team as they are our biggest rivals. I carry that "grudge" into club football. I root for every MLS team in any CONCACAF or other international tourneys, especially when they are playing a Mexican team.

I welcome Chivas to MLS, but I will relish every single defeat they suffer!

Peace and Love!!!

 

Re: !!!

hey, that's a neat trick! Take one sentence out of context then twist around! well done ol' chap! learn that in lawyerin' skool didyu?

I must refer the jury to exhibit A - my original post. I went about saying that this is already a diverse league and that our best and most popular players are not necessarily white, nor are they necessarily from this country.

And YES!

I would say that there is something special about a true fan of MLS that makes them different. That being, that the chances are, a true MLS fan interacts and bonds with people from a different background than their own on a fairly regular basis. a true MLS fan is more likely to be exposed to different cultures than say, an NBA fan or an NFL fan. I have never seen or heard of a baseball team holding a Japanese heritage day but the MLS actively reaches out to different ethnicities in sponsoring cultural events. A true MLS fan is probably a fan of soccer in general and has gone to or will go to an international soccer event. when was the last time a fan of any of the other major american leagues traveled beyond domestic borders to support ANY team. I myself learned to speak Portuguese and then spent one month in portugal for the EURO 2004. just in case you were wondering, not a single american played in that tournament. Aside from national teams there are only two teams on the planet that I can think of and only one that I can name that value race above talent. the first is obviously CHIVAS. the second I cannot think of the name at the moment but there is a team in spain that only recruits catalan players. last I heard, that team was languishing in the spanish 3rd div.

I would like to point out FC Barcelona has managed to represent a particular ethnic group, a nation, even another language and be very successful while incorporating players from all over the world.

when you spend your free time trying to stir people up it only feeds into the stereotype that all you lawyers are scumbags.

what I'm really trying to say is fvck you kpaulson, you goatloving b!tch.

oh yeah, and fvck CHIVAS.