I feel sorry for Claudio Reyna sometimes.

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by csctn, Sep 9, 2004.

  1. csctn

    csctn Member

    Aug 10, 2004
    TN
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Nats are a collection of players that get together to play every once in a while. They get to talk strategy but really do not get to practice it on the field very often.

    Reyna is a finesse-type player who believes that a player should have one touch and then pass the ball - always keep the ball moving and keep moving yourself. Read his new book "More than Goals" - whether you like Claudio or not you will understand him and his play a bit better (the book is not high literature though).

    So why do I sometimes feel sorry for him:
    I truly believe that Claudio plays at a higher level than everyone else on the US team and in the end it makes him look bad because the rest of the team can not play with him.

    Some of his US teammates are more happy booming the ball downfield than stringing together a nice series of passes. CR will make a quick short pass and expect a pass back after a quick movement to gain space from his marker, but the ball will already will be 30 yards downfield being corraled by the opponents defense. His club teammates understand how he plays and can get in a groove with him - a must for his ball movement style. He looks solid and confident when you see him playing for Manchester City.

    On a swamp like Panama's pitch the passing game is not going to work and because of Panama's 3 forwards a true destroyer/DMid was needed in front of the back four. CR did not have a good game but he is America's best player.

    Your opinions?
     
  2. EL MONO MARIO

    EL MONO MARIO Member

    Apr 9, 2002
    Montevideo, Uruguay
    Club:
    CA River Plate
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    DMB is americas best player right now. As far as Claudios book intresting read, liked his stories from Argentina...

    Could be right could be wrong Claudio is a talented players... he's played in great leauges... But I belive after the burden of 1998 as being Mr. America got to him, the coming of LD and DMB laid a little presure off of him and he got his rythem back, but still there is NO question on his ability its the fact that that ability hasn't made it to the national team as of late.
     
  3. hartley

    hartley Member

    I agree with this. I like CR as an AMid, not DMid. I'm sorry, but he doesn't tackle. Zavagnin should have been on the pitch, if not from the start, at least as a sub. KZ would have stuck in on the defensive end and squashed some of Panama's efforts.

    This was not the type of opponent or conditions to use CR as DMid. It works when we can posses more and the opponent's central midfielders aren't as dangerous.

    I like Reyna's play and love to see him and Donovan out there together in the attack. But with last night's conditions, we should have split the field between defenders and attackers -- more like a 5-3-2 formation.
     
  4. Kansassoccer

    Kansassoccer Red Card

    Aug 6, 2004
    Laguana Beach
    I whole heartedly agree with the first posters comments about Reyna being our best player. Donovan and Beasely have speed but do they really have the skill of reyna. I just remember watching him taking a restart set piece from about midfield on saturday and he hit donovan with a beautiful pass down the sideline where Donovan was called offsides or a foul, some horrbile call but I just remember thinking no one else on our team can pass the ball anywhere close to Reyna and he should be on the pitch at all times as an a-mid.
     
  5. firstshirt

    firstshirt Member+

    Bayern München
    United States
    Mar 1, 2000
    Ellington, CT / NK, RI
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I just don't care for his style of play...I think he is a tweener...not an attacking player,,,not a defensive player. he lacks finishing and vision on the attack, I think he would rather play the safe ball than try to attempt something clever. on the attack you have to be willing and able to do both. Mathis and Donovan have no problem doing it. He is not the aggressive dmid like and Armas or Mastrioni. He is not hard on the tackle. I always thought Claudio was a decent player but never thought he was what everyone hyped him up to be
     
  6. GolazoSr

    GolazoSr New Member

    Jul 5, 2002
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Feel sorry for he should retire, at least from the MNT; he has played horribly in the last three WCQ games, wrecking our midfield when we were attempting to attack. He is loosing and giving the ball away too often, thus decapitating most of our incursions on the adversary. Mulrooney or Chung would probably be better than him. Reyna's time is over!

     
  7. BackOtheNet!

    BackOtheNet! New Member

    Jun 6, 2001
    So Cal
    I have been noticing CR trying to forward with a quick one two lately but the pass never comes back to him even though the run was a good one that would have put him in behind the oppositions defense. Last night in the wet conditions he had a few real bad giveaways but mostly because he was getting the ball with players all over him and no real time. He also made a half dozen long ball attempts that were inches from being something. I think it's also why Armas pairs well with him because the ball always comes back to him. As for tackling, he has never been the ABMOD but does seem to position well. But speed goes right by him and Mathis. Also in all fairness dude has been injured plenty the last two years and slugging it out in the rain is a good way to get injured again. I'm sure in the back of his mind he is trying to stay healthy as he doesn't have many chances left in the EPL if he goes down for another year. I don't exactly see Landon slide tackling very often either.
     
  8. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    I feel sorry for Reyna because if he had missed the kind of sitters that Mathis and others have missed US fans would toss pissbags at him.

    Reyna has played 630 minutes of 1st team football since 8-14-2004 (26 days or so - a game every 3 - 4 days. Plus he has flown from England to Miami, Miami to Jamaica, Jamaica to England, England to Boston, Boston to Panama, Panama to England. His club team is 1-1-2 and sit mid table. His national team is 1-2-0 and sit top of table. He is point man in the mid field for both.

    Yet he sucks something awful and Arena should call up Irish national O'Brien to replace him...

    Yeah, sure, whatever.
     
  9. NBlue

    NBlue Member

    Jun 17, 2002
    Orlando, Florida
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I, too, am a huge Reyna fan. That said, it is difficult for me to justify the belief that he remains our best player. Clearly, he does not have the finishing ability of either Landon or Clint -- accordingly, his days as an attacking mid on the usmnt are done imo with both of these players superior to him in that position (i keep waiting for him to finish again as he had another close call on a strike that whistled about a foot over the frame last night). OTOH, he is not a true defensive mid as, I would argue, Mastro, Armas and even Zev all are better destroyers of our opponents attack than he. What he is the best at, imo, is the position of holding mid -- between the defensiveand attacking mid, settling our possession and distributing the ball -- he does that quite well and deserves a frequent start as a result.

    That said, the automatic start he gets I am not certain is deserved. The most "beautiful" match I have seen us play this year was the 1-0 victory over Mexico in Dallas in which 2 destroyer mids controlled the back allowing Landon to be Landon at his best. Reyna allows us to play slower and build from the back in a controlled manner -- which is a good thing but perhaps not always the best depending upon our opponent. Moreover, in watching the last several matches I have some fitness concerns about Reyna. In the last 10 minutes of the match he was CLEARLY quite tired and was not nearly as effective as he was in the first half -- though this could be said of the entire team -- with the captain's armband on he needs to set the example especially from a fitness and attitude standpoint and I simply did not see that from him (same goes for the Jamaica match).

    Perhaps I am way off here, but I would like to see a few more games without Reyna in the fold to allow Landon more opportunity to control the flow of our forward possession a la the Mexico match this year. Of course, this is probably crazy talk.
     
  10. FormerGermanGuy

    Mar 1, 2001
    Indianapolis
    Club:
    Fulham FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You mean like, *gasp*, a MIDFIELDER?

    He's a holding mid. That's what they do, link the defense with the forwards and try to maintain possession. He's not an A-Mid, he's not a D-Mid, he's just a midfielder. He can do all the things the other flavors do, but that's not his specialty and not what he's best at. His specialty is linking attack with defense. And he's one of the best in the world at it.

    And I agree his game may be a bit too subtle for some of his teammates (and especially fans) to appreciate.
     
  11. dice50

    dice50 New Member

    Oct 4, 2000
    Norman, Oklahoma
    Can we aford to play with an attacking, holding, defensive, and two wing mids. That'd be 5 in the midfield and mean we can only play with 3 at the back, clearly Arena favors 4 in the back. So the question is if Arena wants to play Reyna at his best position does this mean we sacrifice something in defense or is it actually stronger b/c then we get to play a true defensive mid which will act more like a stopper or 4th defender?
     
  12. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You have absolutely hit on what i have thought of him and said of him for as long as i can remember. a tweener. not a tough, hard nosed defensive midfielder, nor is he a speedy guy to be a winger, nor is he a guy who is a surging attack-minded player to be an a-mid. he's just a solid, safe type of player, and people seem to love the fact that he doesn't make "mistakes". My argument has always been that it's much easier to not make mistakes when you are consistently playing squareballs and backpasses. It's the same problem that i have with the 2004 version of Ben Olsen ............ receives the pass and immediately turns toward his own goal to look for the pass. He's a smart player, but not nearly the player that everyone has hyped him up to be. he's not even close to being our best player right now, and if he is still an automatic 1st choice player for us 2 years from now, our WC 2006 hopes are in serious trouble.
     
  13. Karl K

    Karl K Member

    Oct 25, 1999
    Suburban Chicago
    You know, sometimes I am in total despair at what the fans of US soccer, many of whom post here, think about their players and their team.

    And then I read this, and think, yes, there is hope in the world after all that reason will prevail, saner judgements will win, and understanding can be ours.

    At least some of the time.
     
  14. csctn

    csctn Member

    Aug 10, 2004
    TN
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Responses to various comments - Thanks for the intelligent posts

    Actually yes DMB or LD are America’s best players right now, but CR is the greatest American player of this generation.

    The tweener argument about CR is a an argument I have heard before and I just think that what Bruce tasks him to do on the Nats produces this reaction. Please remember that most of the time CR is behind DMB and LD in a box midfield. He is the tweener that takes the ball from Armas or a back and gives it up to a DMB or LD or a forward.

    friesland you state that you want Jim O’Brien in there instead of CR, but if JOB were in the lineup with CR then I feel that you would see some real magic from the pair because JOB is a player that could play in combo with CR and the two of them could get the ball into the attacking third on the ground where DMB and LD would be killers (as opposed to the current entry in the attacking third through the air which is fraught with peril). (JOB’s fitness and place on the team are another thread)

    CR is an automatic start during qualifying but I would not be surprised if he is not an automatic start in Germany (knock on wood)! He will be on the team regardless (unless injured)

    Bruce Arena will play 4 backs throughout qualifying, but I could see him playing 5 midfielders in the Germany (knock on wood) as he did versus Mexico and Germany in last World Cup. A midfield of DMB/LD/Gaven or Mathis or teenager from Ghana/CR/JOB or Pablo in Germany (knock on wood) would do things.

    CR very rarely backpasses. I just don’t think the rest of the team is patient enough to make the short passes that build and move forward at moderate pace and create angles that produce chances on goal.

    CR can make the pass that most US players do not believe is possible, so they do not make themselves available for it, that has to frustrating. He is a subtle player (the MLS is not subtle and that is what most US fans watch) and most national team games are not subtle, until you actually get to the World Cup finals or a Euro championships.
     
  15. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001

    This is why Arena tends to use an "unbalanced" midfield with the overlapping winger stlye player coming from the Left (Lewis, Bease) and an A-mid with Reyna (Convey, LD, Stewart, Mathis) and a CDM behind him (Armas, Pablo, Zav). He has been playing with LD as more traditional RM and that is working less interestingly, I think. The US midfield, when it works best, gives lots of room to the middies to shift. When O'Brien and Reyna are on the field together (that time, remember. It happened, I think) there is a lot of room for movement. Bease can switch wings (better than Lewis) LD and Convey can too. What we lack right now, however, is an RB that can cover the line the way Sanneh did. He had enough presence that he could fill in the inevitable space that opens when Reyna slots central, the RM/AM (LD, Convey, Mathis, Stewart) gets forward and could get into the attack when needed.

    Reyna is best as an inside RM in a tweener/holding role - like he played a Gers with a forward looking (Albertz, Nerlinger) LM or a mirror (Bazza) LM. This midfield was unbalanced too (McCann as a winger on the left, overlapping back on the right). But Reyna is not the only guy to fit into the midfield scheme and Mathis and Convey have not looked strong in that rm/am position.
     
  16. YankeeHoo

    YankeeHoo New Member

    Aug 10, 2004
    NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I agree with msot of the posters here right now in the assertion that reyna is the best guy we have on this team... he really is the only true #10 we have, that can build an attack from the center of the field, and be a playmaker... admittedly he is not a finisher, but that doesn't need to be his job, although i know the general american mindset is all about who scored the goal.

    As for Donovan replacing him, I still have little confidence in his ability as a midfielder.. his best moments in the WC were only when he was attacking, and as the main playmaker during the gold cup and confed cup last summer he was absolutely awful, he could not lead any sort of attack trhough the middle. martino even did a better job than LD until he got hurt against cameroon. Not taking away from LD he is a great finisher and he can do things up top that CR doesn't have the speed to do so

    O'Brien would have a chance, but he will never be healthy

    DMB plays some great soccer, but is a completely different player than Reyna. I actually believe they complement each other pretty well, with Beasley making incredible runs and using his speed on the flank to turn up the game a notch when Reyna can always slow the game and calm the team down.

    Bottom line, Reyna's possession-first, score-later mindset is a refreshing surprise that we need more of on the team, especially if the US wants to be an elite force that can attack up the middle instead of depending on wing play and counters.
     
  17. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    The big concern for the USMNT is not the lackluster results and play of the past couple of games, it is the absolute lack of a real replacement for Reyna. O'Brien is the player whose style come closest, but obviously injuries are a concern. Mathis should be able to do that job, but somehow hasn't seemed up to the task. LD, as noted, is too forward looking a player - more a van der Vaart than a Reyna (not that that's bad, but we don't have a two-in-one like a Davids to slot in the DCM.) It's easy to slag Reyna, but where is the midfield General who can replace him?

    I'm sure Reyna would like nothing better than skipping a flight leg or two this WCQ cycle, but I don't see anyone grabbing the team and driving it. That is what really concerns me. The question isn't why isn't Reyna an A-mid, it's why don't we have any other holding mids.
     
  18. mkb3

    mkb3 Member

    Jul 11, 2000
    San Francisco
    I was a big Claudio Reyna fan in the past, but I feel he is losing something with age. Don't we all. His play in preHex has been below what I am used to from him. I saw several key passes to spring people just plainly mis-hit. And not in Panama with the slog.

    I guess he is just doing what needs to be done at this point. And I agree he is our only true number 10 at this point.

    Man, I wish that Martino had about 20 extra pounds on him. I think of Martino as a great replacement to Reyna, but Martino seems so small. I guess I can't say too small for the international stage...just look at Beas. But, Martino is the player that I get excited about every time he touches the ball. He always handles the ball in a way that dazzles.

    Ok, enough of my Martino love fest. But, I'm scratching my head trying to think of another non-JOB Reyna replacement.
     
  19. Bajoro

    Bajoro Member+

    Sep 10, 2000
    The Inland Empire
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Is it a coincidence that Martino was the "next Reyna" 3 years ago at Virginia?

    Claudio's not done yet. The team just needs to find its rhythm. If Claudio figures out how to maximize his usefulness on this team, everything will click.
     
  20. csctn

    csctn Member

    Aug 10, 2004
    TN
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes CR is on the declining side of his career, but each camp Gaven gets to spend with him will hopefully get Gaven that much closer to making it really tough for Bruce to make CR an automatic start by 2006.
     
  21. Kansassoccer

    Kansassoccer Red Card

    Aug 6, 2004
    Laguana Beach
    If Eddie Gaven stars over Claudio Reyna in 2006 then Claudio Reyna has either been injured, killed or retired. DOn;t be a fool Gaven is a great talent but at 19 years old he still won't have the skill of Reyna.
     
  22. Deuteriumoxide

    May 27, 2003
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    "skill" or experience?

    What kind of skill do you mean? Because, Eddie Gaven does things with the ball on his feet that Reyna has never done. Eddie Gaven can create AND score goals. Some might argue that Gaven allready has more "skill" than Reyna.

    That doesn't always mean he is a better player.
     
  23. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are you the matchtracker guy? He spelled losing like "loosing" every time.

    Bah, Reyna's time is over. That's rich. Chung or Rooney? That's even wealthier.

    All these complaints about Reyna sound familiar...just like 4 years ago. Until the US tried to play a few games without him.
     
  24. DamonEsquire

    DamonEsquire BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 16, 2002
    Kentucky
    Club:
    Leeds United AFC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I disagree. In hindsight, I thought M.L.S. come for employment. This would multiply options. I guess. There is more foreigners than naturals although, there was thread over in Stats & Analysis with figures. I thought best to keep appearances down in minimum for cups (like three at most preferablly two). I like Mr. Reyna and all skill. That possess him but I see little from him. This year is different. He get assist on occassion. I am not downing Manchester City Football Club or anything to nature. He can dribble pass and shot. I just don't see benifit from old. That is one reason. I enjoy international soccer (Pele brazill germany are few). You can get away from domestication of sport (football, basketball, ice hockey baseball). Old people tend to sit on things. That is part of meaningfulness. If twenty five year olds can shot people in war, the same twenty five year olds can kick ball into net. They should be able to stop ball from net.
     
  25. uniteo

    uniteo Member+

    Sep 2, 2000
    Rockville, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And once again, Damon puts it all into perspective for us :D
     

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