I haven't read every single word of every post so far, because frankly, these posts are like novellas I think there's a line here that requires some balance. The bottom line is that true fans never, ever abandon their team. You don't boo them, and you don't criticize them when they're on the field. However, that doesn't mean it's unfair to expect them to play better and to expect results. There's a difference between just going off on someone and offering constructive criticism. Bad: "That dude absolutely sucks and should never see the field again, even in a pickup game." Acceptable: "He has trouble maintaining possession. Additionally, he doesn't really take on defenders. He needs to improve that aspect of his game if he wants to keep his starting spot." You clap, you cheer, you support. But it's not unreasonable to expect the team to do their best every time they step on the field. It's also not unreasonable to expect the coach to play the players that care enough to want to win. However, when he doesn't put the guy on the field that YOU want, you don't boo that player. It's not his fault. All you can do is say "Dude, go out there and do it. Prove you belong." Cliff's notes: Expect results, but don't wantonly insult everyone in the organization when times are bad.
So you obviously weren't around during the Vicente Figeroa, Taj Jankins, Vuk Rasovic era/games. Criticism is very necessary even to things you love. I've never understood blind patriotism/faith/knowledge concept. Call me a pragmatist but, when you stop asking questions, pushing or taking a critical view of something is when you've been defeated; you've taken the easy road out. This explains my beef with about 80% of the church going population in the US - (that however is a whole other message board, not just a thread).
I'm not embarrassed people want to criticize the team. I'm just embarrassed by the whiny, sky is falling, hyperbolic nature of this thread, your responses especially. People expecting change on the field based on some great, critical thread on the internet are delusional, not the other way around. If Curt ever made a change on the field based on what the Bigsoccer masses thought, I'd have him fired immediately.
No one has mentioned we played a different team than anyone in MLS has in RSL. The two new Arg. signings both looked WAY better than any other RSL players this season up until our match. I say good for RSL for stringing more than two passes together in a single game. Sucks it had to happen to us first, but every other team who plays them from here on out will have the same surprise. Its pretty interesting to see how two brand new players working together from the same country can impact a team, both teams. Matthias
Andy, this isn't about blind faith. This is about "fans" who turn off and stop watching, who yell obscenities at our own players during the game, who give up on the team. Of course questions should be asked, of course there needs to criticism and skepticism. But abuse of players? Surrendering before the game is over? Quitting on the team? No. These players need to be picked up, not put down. If that means a kick in the arse by Onalfo and Vermes so be it. But once on the field in front of the Cauldron they had better hear our support for 90+ minutes.
No, the other teams will have had the chance to look at the tape of our game, and will come up with a way to counter the new guys. Just like they watched our early games and found a way to contain Marinelli. I understand the angst in this thread, I truly do. (Hey, I've had KU Football season tickets since 1989. I understand how bad a team can truly be, if it tries.) I spent a lot of years swearing at Glen Mason and Terry Allen from my seats, and it didn't improve the team or my blood pressure one iota. Sometimes, you have to swallow hard, keep wearing your colors, and hope for better days ahead. Right now, the Wizards look both mentally and physically worn out. Earlier this season, they were able to use speed and athleticism to mask some pretty obvious shortfalls in the skill department. But as the season has worn on, the physical advantage has gone away because we don't have any useful depth, and the rest of the league has figured out how to gum up our offense. You can see the frustration in the faces of every single player. A lot of that goes on the coaching staff, but this is their first time calling the shots. I expect they will learn from it.
Why is that? You think I'm going to stop spending my time, money and vocal efforts on the team? Hell no, and no one here is (I think). But I'm certainly going to voice my displeasure at their efforts. I want my team to not lose games like this. Salt Lake is a joke of a team and have won 4 games this season. Two of them were against us. That's just insane.
Also....this is in response to George's post on the first page. I never claimed the season was over after 23 games. I am simply embarrassed by the fact that we got 3 points in 3 games where we should have been able to get 5-7. This at a time when the rest of the league is putting away teams like Toronto, Chicago, LA and Salt Lake. It doesn't mean our season is over, but not one person can deny that we've seen this very same pattern in 2005 and 2006. There is reason for concern if you take into account our remaining schedule (which isn't easy and we're on the road a lot), our current form and the fact that we're now on the edge of the playoffs. Something has to change quickly or we're going to miss out again.
I right now I am a hell of a lot more embarrassed about the league and the entire Beckham situation than I am this team. This whole thing certainly backfired.
No, it's not insane. They have 11 players getting paid to try to beat us. For every reason you have in your head on why we should win that game, I have one that says why we could easily lose it. Wow somebody tell Curt. If we do turn it around, we can surely thank this thread giving the team the hard look in the mirror we know they needed. Analyze mistakes and criticise all you want in the post game thread, I just don't get the point of these seperate, melodramatic "wake-up call" threads.
I am with you 95% of the way Jeff, as seen by my previous posts. But there is a need to vent and let off steam and it's marginally better than kicking the dog.
Criticism of the constructive sort is absolutely necessary. But blind bashing just because someone is pissed off that we're on a losing streak isn't a good thing, IMO. I absolutely agree with you about the blind loyalty, as a guy who hasn't seen any of his *other* teams win a championship since 1988.
I'm all for people breaking down the game, criticizing players, and getting pissed off about mistakes, assuming people can do it with a little bit of tact and reason. I don't think we get enough discussion on the actual game as it is. If this is "venting", we'll disagree that this is needed.
We had almost 3 times the points as this team. Everyone is paid to win. We shouldn't have lost to this team. What is the point of message boards? To talk about your feelings about the team. That's what I did in starting the thread. I expect great things from our team and losing to Salt Lake when the season is in the balance is not good. And why the sarcastic "Wow someone tell Curt"??? I didn't email this to Curt or anyone with the team to pass along. I'm not sending a message to the team, whether they read it or not. I'm on a fan board venting, plain and simple.
This team wasn't even this team a few weeks ago. Replace 30% of your field players and you can expect to play a little differently. RSL isn't a static thing to whom we can only lose if we play below a certain level.
I don't think the quotes you referenced are needed either, that's why I said I agree with you on 95% of what you said.
This man might be my brother. I wouldn't have opened this can, but nice call, Beech. Repped. But, my pastor told me God wants me to vote this way... Remember, Republican conservative Congressmen don't use bookmarks, they just bend over the pages...:rimshot: Anyway, back to KC. Differentials in opinions of what is proper to post reflects well to a macro issue to make the point. Many recently and throughout history criticised a given politician and have been wrongly accused of hating America. Right or wrong on the basis of the criticism makes little difference. The point is the speaker cares enough about, in this case America in our case KCW, to voice a concern. That attempts to control and manipulate media can happen (see Robb's response, IMO. BTW, I'm not knocking Robb - media manipulation is his chosen job at least in part - just his decision to remind us that the Wizards could be in Phily so things are not so bad relatively. Dumb. Low. Dismissive. Bad form.) allows this kind of thinking to become a duty in some people's addled minds. A duty not lightly reinforced by, in Beech's example, organized religion. I could be wrong. I have been before. To be fair to Figgy, he did hustle... Preki thought enough of him to give him a pk conversion opportunity, which Figgy converted. Taj might be the worst #1 in MLS history.
Cool, I just remembered that you had posted that. I wanted to make sure people didn't think I was a doomsdayer or saying all was lost. I'm worried, and was pissed after the 50 yard goal was allowed. Allowing a goal like that is a big deal, and it is one where a fans response can be anger. I was angry that we, and yes I'm a fan that says we for the very reason that I care that much about the outcomes and feel as if I'm involved in this effort, let that happen to us in a game where we could salvage a point. It sealed the game, shouldn't have been allowed and I expect Hartman to not let that happen (only because I think he's one of the two best keepers in the league and expect perfection from hm because I know he's that good). Hartman is surely embarrassed about it and there's no shame in a fan being embarrassed a bit as well. The thread was a place to vent. Not question peoples opinions or call out the team. Although I completely agree with Dave and Andy that criticising is not bad, it's our right as fan if we choose and says nothing about how much we support the team. And certainly not to get at one another.
so is reading any online thread as if the words are typed by the users onto a stone tablet. when did i say that i expected my venting would cause management to make changes? don't you get bored standing in the middle of road? you sound tired to me... or at least your act does.
I don't know, how about this. "hey robb, you still read these boards?" It sounds to me like you're expecting management to read it. Yeah, you got me. I'm so afraid to take a stand on something - just waffling in the middle all the time.