Hypothetically Speaking: Who would you make available for an expansion draft?

Discussion in 'D.C. United' started by Knave, Oct 24, 2003.

  1. Knave

    Knave Member+

    May 25, 1999
    Rumor on the MLS News and Analysis board continues to be that Chivas (and maybe a second team) may enter MLS next season. Should that rumor hold there will probably be an expansion draft. Looking at DC United’s current roster who would you make available for the draft and who would you protect?

    Back in 1997 teams had to place a minimum of 10 players into the expansion draft but DC actually placed 11 in the draft because our roster exceeded the 20 man active roster limit. This was our list:

    Available Players
    Scott Garlick
    Ben Iroha
    Brian Kamler
    Kris Kelderman
    Jesse Marsch
    Clint Peay
    John Maessner
    Tom Presthus
    Mark Simpson
    David Vaudreuil
    Roy Wegerle

    Not Available
    Jeff Agoos
    Raul Diaz Arce
    Marco Etcheverry
    Mario Gori
    John Harkes
    Carlos Llamosa
    Jaime Moreno
    Eddie Pope
    Tony Sanneh
    Richie Williams

    Lists from the other teams can be found here: http://barnburners.com/news/97/expansion3.html

    Here’s our current roster: (REG means no special status)
    Code:
    [size=2]
    Alegria, Jose		T-I
    Barclay, Devin		P-40
    Carroll, Brian		P-40
    Cerritos, Ronald	GC
    Convey, Bobby		REG
    Eskandarian, Alecko	P-40
    Etcheverry, Marco	GC
    Ivanov, Galin		S-I
    Kovalenko, Dema		GC
    Martins, Thiago		REG
    Namoff, Bryan		REG
    Nelsen, Ryan		S-I
    Olsen, Ben		REG
    Perea, Trevor		DEV
    Petke, Mike		REG
    Prideaux, Brandon	REG
    Quaranta, Santino	REG
    Quintanilla, Eliseo	T-I
    Reyes, Milton		GC/DISC
    Stewart, Earnie		REG
    Stoitchkov, Hristo	REG
    Stokes, David		P-40
    Geddes, Jorge		DEV
    Rimando, Nick		REG
    Warren, Doug		REG
    [/size]
    Here are my lists assuming each team is required to make 10 players available. I didn’t include Hristo or Marco on either list because I question whether they’ll be back next year. I took the cap into consideration in the sense that if I was vacillating between two players I protected the cheaper one. Some of the thinking was also strategic. For instance, I didn’t think Geddes would be drafted by an expansion team but he holds place on the list and thereby essentially allows me to protect another player by default. I put Rimando on the list because I’m actually fairly comfortable with Warren.

    Available
    Alegria, Jose
    Carroll, Brian
    Cerritos, Ronald
    Geddes, Jorge
    Ivanov, Galin
    Perea, Trevor
    Quaranta, Santino
    Quintanilla, Eliseo
    Rimando, Nick
    Barclay, Devin

    Not Available
    Convey, Bobby
    Eskandarian, Alecko
    Kovalenko, Dema
    Martins, Thiago
    Namoff, Bryan
    Nelsen, Ryan
    Olsen, Ben
    Petke, Mike
    Prideaux, Brandon
    Reyes, Milton
    Stewart, Earnie
    Stokes, David
    Warren, Doug

    Probably Retiring
    Etcheverry, Marco
    Stoitchkov, Hristo
     
  2. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    Available
    Alegria, Jose
    Barclay, Devin
    Carroll, Brian
    Cerritos, Ronald
    Geddes, Jorge
    Ivanov, Galin
    Martins, Thiago
    Perea, Trevor
    Stoitchkov, Hristo
    Warren, Doug

    Not Available
    Convey, Bobby
    Eskandarian, Alecko
    Etcheverry, Marco
    Kovalenko, Dema
    Namoff, Bryan
    Nelsen, Ryan
    Olsen, Ben
    Petke, Mike
    Prideaux, Brandon
    Reyes, Milton
    Quaranta, Santino
    Quintanilla, Eliseo
    Rimando, Nick
    Stewart, Earnie
    Stokes, David
     
  3. fatbastard

    fatbastard Member+

    Aug 1, 2003
    Lincoln (ish), Va
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Available
    Alegria, Jose
    Carroll, Brian
    Eskandarian, Alecko
    Geddes, Jorge
    Ivanov, Galin
    Perea, Trevor
    Rimando, Nick
    Barclay, Devin
    Martins, Thiago
    Stoitchkov, Hristo
    John Trask :)

    Not Available
    Convey, Bobby
    Kovalenko, Dema
    Quintanilla, Eliseo
    Namoff, Bryan
    Nelsen, Ryan
    Olsen, Ben
    Petke, Mike
    Prideaux, Brandon
    Reyes, Milton
    Stewart, Earnie
    Cerritos, Ronald
    Stokes, David
    Warren, Doug
    Quaranta, Santino

    Probably Retiring
    Etcheverry, Marco

    Let Hristo retire after the draft, and he makes another player safe. Whether he retires or not, Etch cannot be traded, I would assume that means he can't be drafted either.
     
  4. JoeW

    JoeW New Member

    Apr 19, 2001
    Northern Virginia, USA
    I have to wonder if we have the rights to Thiago Martin. We signed him AFTER Pittsburgh was eliminated. They may still own his rights (since I don't think a transfer fee was paid). In which case, we wouldn't be protecting him.

    Also, I wonder if Hristo (who was originally an allocation) will bring an allocation when he retires? Etcheverry should as well. That means that it would be important for them to retire BEFORE the expansion draft. Otherwise, we might be forced to protect them to keep the allocations.

    Here's another option--if you feel equally good about Rimando and Warren, then expose both. The usual procedure is once a player is claimed off your list, you can pull one back. That way, you can protect a Quintanilla or Quaranta.
     
  5. Red&Black

    Red&Black Member+

    Aug 30, 2001
    Lot 8
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    Burkina Faso
    the archived press release about his signing doesn't indicate for how long, merely saying he was taking reyes roster spot. i would assume with the riverhounds going down to the pdl they couldn't afford a guy like martins who could make a good buck in a league i'd think.
     
  6. shawn12011

    shawn12011 Member+

    Jun 15, 2001
    Reisterstown, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll go even one better and give my available list for all ten teams. I have given ten names for each team


    Chicago Available

    Williams, Andrew
    Selolwane, Dipsy
    Capano, Craig
    Perez, Orlando
    Bolanos, Jonathan
    Futagaki, Ryan
    Walls, Nick
    Ring, Henry
    Marsch, Jesse
    Gray, Kelly


    Columbus Available

    McCarty, Chad
    Denton, Eric
    Paule, Ross
    West, Brian
    Pineda Chacon, Alex
    Matteo, Jeff
    Ritch, Michael
    Murriagui, Andres
    Traeger, Jake
    Ueltschey, Michael


    DC United Available

    Ivanov, Galin
    Alegria, Jose
    Carroll, Brian
    Barclay, Devin
    Quintanilla, Eliseo
    Perea, Trevor
    Quaranta, Santino
    Warren, Doug
    Geddes, Jorge
    Thiago Martins


    Metrostars Available

    Leitch, Christopher
    Bartolomeu, Edgar
    Forchetti, Juan
    LeBlanc, Jacob
    Addo, Joseph
    Wolyniec, John
    Williams, Richie
    DiGiamarino, Joey
    Regan, Tim
    Nugent, Michael


    New England Available

    Kante, Ibrahim
    Pierce, Rusty
    Moore, Jason
    Llamosa, Carlos
    Downing, Nick
    Joseph, Shalrie
    Leonard, Marshall
    Frias, Tony
    Reis, Matt
    Heaps, Jay


    Colorado Available

    Kotschau, Richard
    Fraser, Robin
    Powell, Darryl
    Trembly, Seth
    Kingsley, Zach
    Hart, Wes
    Rizo, Alberto
    Stewart, Jeff
    Piserchio, Michael
    Vallow, Scott

    Dallas Avaiable

    Hendrickson, Ezra
    Pareja, Oscar
    Urbas, Hermann
    Glinton, Gavin
    Salyer, Philip
    Cassar, Jeff
    Rosenband, Andy
    Nhleko, Nkosinathi
    Thompson, Jason
    Dunseth, Brian

    KC Avaiable

    Talley, Carey
    Zavagnin, Kerry
    Vazquez, Jorge
    Harris, Wolde
    Armstrong, Stephen
    Friedland, Kevin
    Arnaud, Davy
    Zotinca, Alex
    Graham, Taylor
    Oshoniyi, Adegboyega

    LA Available

    Thompson, Scot
    Broome, Paul
    Albright, Chris
    Lewis, Eric
    Gomez, Herculez
    Torres, Arturo
    Ochoa, Jesus
    Lalas, Alexi
    Popik, Daniel
    Marshall, Tyrone

    SJ Avaiable

    Robinson, Eddie
    Lagos, Manuel
    Walker, Jamil
    Waibel, Craig
    Conway, Jon
    Saunders, Josh
    Alvarez, Arturo
    De Rosario, Dwayne
    Russell, Ian
    Roner, Chris
     
  7. ignatz

    ignatz New Member

    Jun 3, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Available

    Alegria, Jose
    Carroll, Brian
    Cerritos, Ronald
    Eskandarian, Alecko
    Geddes, Jorge
    Ivanov, Galin
    Perea, Trevor
    Quintanilla, Eliseo
    Rimando, Nick
    Barclay, Devin

    Not Available

    Convey, Bobby
    Kovalenko, Dema
    Martins, Thiago
    Namoff, Bryan
    Nelsen, Ryan
    Olsen, Ben
    Petke, Mike
    Prideaux, Brandon
    Quaranta, Santino
    Reyes, Milton
    Stewart, Earnie
    Stokes, David
    Warren, Doug


    I took Knave's list and switched Quaranta and Eskandarian. I'd keep Q1 because he is younger, more versatile, and, IMO, more talented. He does seem to need an attitude transplant, but that should come with maturity. Esky has been a disappointment and, unlike the other rookies, he's had a fair share of time.

    Still, maybe Esky has it and will blossom in the future. If I were making the choice for DCU, I might toy with keeping Esky and putting Earnie on the Available list -- not because I would want to lose him, but because I think he'd be too expensive to take.

    OFF TOPIC: I noticed form the 1998 draft, that LA put Hartmann on the Available list and Jorge Campos on the Not Available list. Does anyone know how Jorge then wound up in Chicago? And wasn't only a year later that Hartmann had that wonderful toe-stub in MLS Cup?
     
  8. kevbrunton

    kevbrunton New Member

    Feb 27, 2001
    Edwardsburg, MI
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Absolutely no way Kelly Gray is on an available list from Chicago. He is a future National Teamer and started nearly every game. CJ Brown goes on the list -- he high salary, closing in on the end of his career and has been hurt all year. Also, I seriously doubt if Capano is on it either. He's a year or two away from being an impact player like Justin Mapp has been this year.

    First to answer your off topic question, Chicago took Hartman and someone else in the draft from LA and then traded both back to LA for Ante Razov, Chris Armas and Jorge Campos.

    As for who DCU should protect, if Chivas is the only one doing the drafting, there is no need to waste a protection spot on guys like Ryan Nelson. They have made it plain that they're going to use all SI & TI spots on Mexicans and in fact may have all Americans on the team of hispanic decent.

    I guess there is one risk in that -- they could take a Nelson and then use him to trade for 2 or more good hispanic players somewhere else.
     
  9. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    Exactly. A very high risk IMHO.
     
  10. ignatz

    ignatz New Member

    Jun 3, 2001
    Washington, DC
    So LA lost two guys from the Available List and then traded three guys from the Not Available List to get them back? What genius in LA masterminded that?
     
  11. Hal

    Hal Member

    Sep 9, 1999
    If I'm Trask, I'm not exposing any of our top talent, especially with no top round draft picks next year.

    If Chivas is at all true to his word, I definitely would not expose TI or SI or greed card players of Hispanic background.

    No Quintanilla, Cerritos, or Reyes

    I also don't expose players who might be acquired to trade for someone else, like Stewart, Nelson, etc.

    I hope both Hristo and Marco retire so we get some allocations for them. If not,

    I would expose Hristo to the expansion draft and pull Prideaux off the list.

    If Marco does not retire, I also would put him on the available list and pull Warren.


    Available

    Alegria, Jose
    Barclay, Devin
    Carroll, Brian
    Geddes, Jorge
    Ivanov, Galin
    Martins, Thiago
    Perea, Trevor
    Prideaux, Brandon
    Stokes, David
    Warren, Doug

    Not Available

    Cerritos, Ronald
    Convey, Bobby
    Eskandarian, Alecko
    Kovalenko, Dema
    Namoff, Bryan
    Nelsen, Ryan
    Olsen, Ben
    Petke, Mike
    Quintanilla, Eliseo
    Quaranta, Santino
    Reyes, Milton
    Rimando, Nick
    Stewart, Earnie
     
  12. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Available
    Alegria, Jose
    Carroll, Brian
    Cerritos, Ronald
    Eskandarian, Alecko
    Geddes, Jorge
    Ivanov, Galin
    Namoff, Brian
    Perea, Trevor
    Quaranta, Santino
    Quintanilla, Eliseo
    Rimando, Nick
    Barclay, Devin

    Same as Knave's except I added Eski and Namoff.
     
  13. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    You also have to consider using the draft as a way to relieve cap space. Cerritos is a prime candidate if we decide to keep Martins and/or a younger forward (through trade, draft, allocation, etc.)
     
  14. Haig

    Haig Member+

    May 14, 2000
    METROSTARS
    Club:
    --other--
    I'd be surprised if $5500 a year developmental players (Perea, Geddes) were allowed to count on the non-protected list. Nice dodge, but try again.
     
  15. lkeniston

    lkeniston Member

    Mar 20, 2003
    Richmond, Va.
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Gotta keep the Cerritos/Stewart combo, that's next season's bread & butter strike pairing! If I owned DC, I'd be hunting for a older yet speedy midfield partner for Bobby & bag the rest

    Available
    Alegria
    Barclay
    Carroll
    Eskandarian
    Etcheverry
    Ivanov
    Martins
    Perea
    Stoitchkov
    Stokes
    Geddes

    Protected
    Cerritos*
    Convey*
    Kovalenko*
    Namoff*
    Nelsen*
    Olsen*
    Petke*
    Prideaux
    Quaranta
    Quintanilla
    Reyes
    Stewart*
    Rimando
    Warren

    *protected with coach's life
     
  16. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    I think Cerritos, Alegria, Q1 and Q2 are the most likely to be on the list. Cerritos eats a lot of cap space and Chivas is the club most likely interested in him (assuming he's not placed on the list). Either way, I think he'll go. Alegria is close to being an SI and he is by no means a quality SI. We need those spots for players that can either start or contribute off the bench, something that Alegria is hardpressed to do (yeah, I know he had an assist on Sunday, but what else has he done all season?). Q2 needs greener pastures to develop. A club like Chivas may be what he needs to be better as a player. The same can also be said for Q1.
     
  17. Allan Quatermain

    Oct 23, 2001
    The Lost City of Gol
    Club:
    DC United
    My recommendation -- and this would also be a gesture opf goodwill to Chivas -- is to leave all of our Mexican players unprotected.

    AQ
     
  18. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    Good one.
     
  19. Jose L. Couso

    Jose L. Couso New Member

    Jul 31, 2000
    Arlington, VA
    :D
     
  20. DigitalTron

    DigitalTron New Member

    Apr 4, 2001
    Arlington, VA
    Available Players
    Chino Alegria (SI next season)
    Marco Etcheverry (Max Salary)
    Galin Ivanov (SI and poor defender)
    Thiago Martins (Bubble)
    Bryan Namoff (Bubble)
    Brandon Prideaux (Bubble)
    Eliseo Quintanilla
    Earnie Stewart (Max Salary)
    Hristo Stoichkov (Disruptive)
    Doug Warren (Bubble)
    Perea (Developmental)
    Geddes (Developmental)

    Not Available
    Bobby Convey (Allocation if he leaves)
    Ronald Cerritos (Bubble because of salary)
    Dema Kovalenko
    Ryan Nelsen (SI)
    Ben Olsen
    Mike Petke
    Santino Quaranta
    Milton Reyes
    Nick Rimando
    Devin Barclay (Bubble)
    Brian Carroll (Bubble)
    Alecko Eskandarian (Bubble)
    David Stokes (Bubble)

    I've seen some crazy things posted here, so I'd like to clarify a bit. Even if there is a draft only for Chivas, guys like Ryan Nelsen and Brandon Prideaux will be selected immediately. They will then be traded by Chivas to teams like Colorado, Columbus and KC, who all need defenders. Not protecting them is assuring that you lose them.

    Don't forget about the salary cap. With DC United having few draft picks in a substantially inferior draft year, we're not likely to find more than one or two P-40 players. Guys like Devin and Esky may or may not be P-40 next season, but if they are not, we will likely not replace that spot with P-40 quality. Similarly, high salary guys with relatively low production like Earnie Stewart and Marco Etcheverry are unlikely to be drafted. Also, a productive guy like Dema might not be drafted because of his penchant for cards and mid-range salary. Ditto for Olsen because of injuries and salary. Similarly, good, young, inexpensive, technical, versatile, multi-skilled, and tall defenders like Kelly Gray are coveted, and would be picked immediately as well.

    If there is a draft, it really depends upon how many people we need to make available, and whether all categories (i.e. P-40's) count equally (unlikely). I'd guess that we'd have to offer up 8-10 full roster guys if there are two teams choosing, probably 6-8 if only one team is choosing.

    -Digital
     
  21. GrillMaster

    GrillMaster Member

    Aug 31, 2000
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The salary cap has a great deal of impact on the protected list. It is a variable that apparently may increase for next season. Anyway--

    Digital, that's about the list that I'd have as well. I'm not sure about keeping the diminutive Esky while risking the dominating Thiago, who has been the more dangerous. Protecting Quaranta is also a difficult decision, but one that I agree with because of the kid's talent and size. Protecting Convey is also a bitter pill -- I am sooooo disapointed with his production this year after all of his bravado in pre-season about demanding the ball, etc. Also, he's apparently not the most well-liked of players in the locker room. But, again, I agree with your list.

    So I guess maybe I'd switch Thiago to protected for Esky.

    FWIW.

    GM

    ps: I hate to expose BP, but it is logical and Stokesy has sooo much talent -- a good offseason training regimen should see him through to starting next season.
     
  22. eltico

    eltico Member

    Jul 16, 2000
    I may be insane in saying this, but would it make more sense to protect Warren then Rimando? Warren has made the occasional rookie mistakes, but has overall been really solid and will obviously improve over the offseason. Rimando, however, will be coming off an ACL injury (who knows if he'll still have the cat-like quickness he relies on?) and costs more. Warren protected over Rimando?
     
  23. ursula

    ursula Member

    Feb 21, 1999
    Republic of Cascadia
    A couple of thoughts:

    I'd presume any expansion draft will happen after all unsigned players either have new contracts or are waived. So this draft will most likely happen shortly before the Superdraft.

    It also means that we'll know if Etch and Hristo are retired- and if we get an allocation for them- or if the team has picked up their contracts .

    It also means that we'll know if Nellie or possibly Convey are going to Europe by then. Again, with one year left on his contract, Nelsen says that after this season he's gonna take some time off- till the end of the year- go hoe to NZ and figure what he wants to do next. Good for him as he is nearing the prime of his career and this next contract be very important. I really think he'll decide that he needs to start earning some decent money by professional sports standards- which means that MLS won't be able to match what England will offer. So I see him at the end of december- shortly before the international signing window opens- telling MLS that he's gonna walk the next year if they don't sell him this winter. MLS then sells him before the expansion draft happens. The question then becomes- will we get an allocation for him?

    Convey is less likely to go, but he has this upcoming U-20 tournament to shine. He may get offers from other than England countries. But he too, we'll know by the expansion draft if he is still with us or not.

    If Convey stays and even if Etcheverry retires, we still have a glut in central attacking mids with Convey, Stewart, and Kovalenko. My first choice would be to expose Stewart and his salary but I'm not sure: how much did Dema re-sign for and do we want to Dema as the main person running the midfield unless we then get an SI somewhere? Hopefully by this draft we'd have a good line on another a-mid if we are planning on losing two or three of Etch, Convey, Dema, and Stewart.


    I also agree with those who think the P-40 guys won't be in the draft. But we'll have to wait to see if Esky and Warren are still P-40 or not.

    I would expose Prideaux but not Namoff. Brandon is a very good player but he's not an ideal starter at central defense (lack of air game) or on the outside (lack of offensive game). Namoff, on the other hand, may wind up filling our d-mid hole. Hopefully we'll know how we are gonna fill that d-mid hole before the draft...
     
  24. Marco10

    Marco10 Member+

    Sep 9, 2002
    I think you all are looking at the expansion draft method backwards. According to the Post back in '97, every team in the league could only PROTECT 10 players, everybody else was fair game (unless there were special circumstances like for a dev. player, or P-40's who were living close to home, but they likely wouldn't have been picked anyway). Once a player was picked from a team, then another player could be added to the protected list and once 3 players were picked from any team, then that team was out of the draft.

    So, teams didn't offer up 10+ players for the draft like the Barnbruners thing was indicating, they were only able to protect 10. Assuming MLS will handle it the same way, that makes creating available rosters a lot more interesting.

    When you look at it that way, a lot of this speculation would look a lot different, I'd imagine, since your lists of protected players would have to shrink by at least a few players.

    For me, I'd say protect:

    Cerritos
    Stewart
    Quaranta
    Convey
    Dema
    Olsen
    Petke
    Nelsen
    Rimando
    Namoff

    Then after Reyes is taken, protect Prideaux (or vice versa). After Martins is taken, protect Esky (or vice versa). And after Warren is taken, DC will be out of the draft pool. This is just pure speculation obviously, but I thought it was fun to guess at it.

    Anyway, this all is probably moot as MLS will not expand until 2005 anyway.
     
  25. jason1551

    jason1551 Member+

    Apr 9, 2003
    Columbus, GA
    Club:
    DC United
    If that were the case, then I'd protect:

    Warren
    Reyes
    Nelsen
    Petke
    Olsen
    Stewart
    Convey
    Kovalenko
    Prideaux
    Martins

    That's the core of our team (and starting lineup). Any of the other players chosen are either utility players or bench warmers.
     

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