I didn't vote, but I'll try. Upside is, as has been stated, a bunch of players not quite good enough for the 'ESL' become affordable. Downside is that the ESL may overwhelm the local product--its entire reason for being would be a worldwide (including US) TV product, presumably with all the games beamed to the world on weekends (prime time in Europe, afternoon here). More Americans would be likely to watch it, but not so many that it's exactly going to take over the culture. And further, with this 'NFL of Europe', it might not matter if MLS gets a little better--it won't be climbing the rungs up the ladder of soccer leagues because there will only be two rungs: superior (ESL) and inferior (everything else). MLS was never going to catch up to the tradition of European clubs, and with the one potential compensating advantage (catchment area) gone, the league might get better in terms of talent just as its long term ambitions are crushed. I don't know what I think about that theory, but I thought I'd throw it out there.
^^ more americans watching soccer is good for MLS no matter if most will be eurosnubs, because a large chuck will not be. For example I am sure most current MLS fans became fans of soccer before MLS.
If a super league happens, I don't think the composition of the league will look like many people suspect. Why is it better for Liverpool to trade Everton for Benfica? The only way this makes even remote sense is if the super rich can break away and keep most of the expanded television money for themselves and those clubs that have comparable economic power. Despite the yearnings of the Scottish and Dutch clubs that have outgrown their domestic leagues, Deloitte's data indicates that there are ten clubs that make significantly more money than even the ordinary rich clubs of Europe, and they are all in England, Spain, Italy and Germany: 1. Real Madrid 292 (all € million) 2. FC Barcelona 259.1 3. Juventus 251.2 4. Manchester United 239.6 5. A.C. Milan 238.7 6. Chelsea 221.0 7. Internazionale 206.6 8. Bayern Munich 204.7 9. Arsenal 177.4 10. Liverpool 176.0 You can make a case that even Arsenal and Liverpool lag behind, but new stadiums should bring them to the 200 million level. After these 10 giants, the drop off to Lyon and Roma (each about 127 million) is sharp, both in revenues, and frankley, stature. You don't see Chelsea selling its good young players to Lyon. If a super league comes, most of these 10 teams would form it's core IMO, and it won't be much bigger. Forget the need for a bigger "footprint", they already have huge fan bases and would have no intention on sharing revenue by slicing the pie into a lot of pieces. (Nor do they need them for scheduling; just because a conventional domestic league has 18 to 20 clubs doesn't mean a Super League will need that many. Play everyone four times and you have 36 games.) Those that take the risk will perhaps eventually let others buy their way in later, but it would require huge American style expansion fees. The money is potentially so huge, even the probable loss of the Champions League won't be a huge impediment. AC Milan got €39.59 million for winning it last year, while Chelsea got €34.66 million and Liverpool €32.22 million. A fair amount of money, but the EPL alone will generate $5.32 billion in TV revenues over the next three years, including $1.2 billion for foreign rights. If a ESL's foreign rights were worth even a billion dollars -- and they are probably worth a great deal more -- split ten ways, they would never miss the Champion's League money, and they wouldn't have to perform well to get it. That's the lure: each team can keep its own domestic TV money, and they can share the expanded foreign TV money pro rata. I think Stan is right that a real super league is a mixed bag for MLS. It would probably be the dominant in the world for media coverage and TV contracts. Given ESPN's Champion's League ratings, it wouldn't surprise me at all if a ESL got much better ratings than MLS here in the US -- and ESPN would chase those ratings in a heartbeat. That said, it would raise the profile of soccer in this country, which might help MLS a bit, but the tide of money would certainly favor the Super League.
You made a lot of good points. Forgot about the 'expansion fee' that the league could collect. Houston Texans paid $800 million for the NFL expansion fee several years ago. For the European Superleague, it could be well over $1 billion in expansion fee for 1 team.
Erm, isn't the whole point that clubs like Celtic and Ajax are only held behind by playing in inferior leagues?
That just gave me a great idea. What if England forcibly invaded Scotland again, and the Spanish/French Hapsburgs invaded the Netherlands again? Win win, all around!
So they say, but why does Real Madrid care about Ajax? Again, what makes a Super League work is selling the foreign TV rights and keeping those dollars closely held. Those ten clubs not only have the cash, they have caché that appeals to foreign markets. Would a PSV tour of Asia be comparable to Manchester United? Not a chance. Like it our not, those 10 clubs have already seperated from the others financially. The only question is whether they wish to use their ecnomoic power to consolidate their position and enrich themselves even more.
About as much as Real Madrid care about Liverpool? The point is that teams like Celtic have fanbases to surpass teams like Inter; the fact that the Scottish Premier League's TV deal is small enough compared to the Italian equivalent to leave the formers' current revenue behind the latters' is neither here nor there.
On a slightly different subject, if you were to guess which club has the biggest average attendance in europe without looking it up, i bet you would all be wrong. (It is a g14 one though)
No, not Inter. Actually a google search i just did seems to suggest it might now be Barcelona, which makes my whole previous post useless, so sorry about that. But it has been Borussia Dortmund previous seasons, i was kinda trying to slip a little Germany and dortmund bragging in here, but i seem to have failed.
It is UEFA not FIFA that govern European football. And why would they do something as drastic as banning all the best players from internationals, It would only mean the deaths of it's cashcows the world cup(FIFA) and European Championship(UEFA). Who would care for the world cup if only second rate players where playing. If the top clubs decided to create a "superleague" UEFA and FIFA would have to exept it because it is the clubs that pays the players salaries.
I don't think you have a clue about the popularity of the clubs you mentioned. Ajax is a club with a fanbase surpassing the borders of the Netherlands. It has support in spain, france, belgium, germany or any country you can name. For PSV, they sell out games in Asia, because they were smart enough to contract Asian (S Korean) players after the worldcup 2002. And I think Real does care playing Ajax, as the are getting better when playing in 'ESL' and are one of the few clubs in Europe who were the shield on their slieves for winning the championsleague for at least 4 times. Back on topic. a European Superleague will never happen, because the regular and hardcore fanbase of Real, Bayern, Arsenal, ManU, even Ajax or Benfica etc will never allow their clubs to leave there domestic leagues. It's the history and the local rivalries what gives some of the clubs their fanbase.
Exactly. This idea has been floated for a decade but now that more American money is pouring into the game in the UK you can be sure that if this ever happens it'll be the NFL in Europe. Play-offs, no relegation, and the lion's share of the money from TV. It's even possible that you could see a salary cap (if the Americans can convince the other clubs that making money is more important than winning). That's also why meaningless games don't matter. If you've got an obscenely huge TV contract for the whole competition to split among its members then who cares if stadiums are half-full for teams with no hope of the play-offs come April/May. In the NFL you could not sell a ticket all season and still make money due TV revenue (and the salary cap). As for the idea that Scotland could get two teams while Germany only one it's actually pretty likely. Money is what is going to dictate who gets in. Celtic and Rangers have massive global fanbases (unlike most German clubs) and both understand that they need to be in a bigger league if they're ever going to truely tap that potential. The other problem German clubs would run into is that Germany is still the one league with strong enough organized fan power that could stop something like this - that's why only Bayern (the rest of Germany would probably be happy to see the back of them) would be completely realistic. Mike.
The difference is that Real Madrid and Liverpool have wealth that allows them to afford top players that teams like Celtic and Rangers can't (by their own admission) buy. And if clubs don't have top quality players -- players neutrals and "gloryhunters" in foreign countries want to see -- what do they bring to the party in selling TV rights abroad? There is a reason all of those American fans that call into Fox Football Phone in pronounce themselves Manchester United or Chelsea supporters, and it ins't some long held emotional attachment to the clubs. Now, you might be able to argue that Celtic has a large enough international following that it would result in a more valuable foreign rights TV deal for a super league. I'm not at all certain of that, but I conceed with Celtic it might be uniquely possible. Even so, I very much doubt that the same would be true of PSV or Ajax. If a super league is ever formed, I think the great potential irony of the G-14 is that having helped form the group, I think the super rich clubs would look around the table at the likes of PSV and say "what a great idea, but why do we need you?" If they are going to do a 20 way split of these TV revenues, the English teams are better off where they are -- playing traditional rivals with huge TV deals already in place. Cut that in half to a glittering ten super clubs dividing a $1 to $2 billion dollar foreign TV deal (while keeping their own domestic broadcast rights), and that is now real money.
More than likely, the players remaining in the Premiership would be forced to accept lower wages, as there would only be so many squad-places in the European league.
Celtic don't get much TV money because Scotland is a tiny country. Even in a ESL, there'd still only be 5 million people there. So where would the extra money come from? The other teams in the ESL wouldn't want to share any revenue with them. In fact, with the top Spanish and Italian teams making so much money from their own TV deals, it wouldn't surprise me if a ESL had each team negotiated their own rights, and that clubs had control over their own country's broadcasting area, i.e. all the money generated in England went to Arsenal, Man United and Liverpool. The big clubs of Europe won't be helping out the big fish in small ponds.
And there's the rub. Clubs like Real Madrid and Barca are fan-owned. They don't care about the profits, only winning. Many owners buy clubs to win, not because they care about money. In fact they often expect to lose money in football. Why would Real Madrid fans want revenue-sharing or salary caps that would hinder them and help teams like Ajax and Celtic compete with them? Why would Juventus throw away their huge financial advantage, with all the league titles that come along with it, just to help PSG or Porto?
I think you are spot on. Each team would control it's domestic rights and they would pool and share foreign broadcast revenues, which might be €50 million annually for each of those 10 teams (with the potential for much, much more). They have no reason to share that with Rangers or PSV or Benfica.
Now only two left: https://www.washingtonpost.com › sports › soccer › 2023 › 06 › 06 › soccer-juventus-super-league-uefa › 7389d6f2-049a-11ee-b74a-5bdd335d4fa2_story.html Juventus plans to leave Super League project after season of legal ... VandaagBy Associated Press June 6, 2023 at 2:46 p.m. EDT Gift Article Share TURIN, Italy — Juventus plans to leave the Super League project still being pursued by Real Madrid and Barcelona, though the... https://www.forbes.com › sites › tomsanderson › 2023 › 06 › 06 › juventus-reportedly-tell-fc-barcelona-and-real-madrid-they-will-quit-european-super-league Juventus Tell FC Barcelona They'll Quit European Super League ... - Forbes VandaagJuventus Tell FC Barcelona And Real Madrid They Will Quit European Super League: Reports Tom Sanderson Contributor 0 Jun 6, 2023,10:58am EDT Listen to article Share to Facebook Share to Twitter... https://theathletic.com › 4586395 › 2023 › 06 › 06 › juventus-european-super-league-exit Juventus reveal plan to pull out of European Super League VandaagJuventus have confirmed they plan to pull out of the European Super League. The Italian side revealed on Tuesday that they have written to Barcelona and Real Madrid, the two remaining sides, to...