Re: Ghost of Bill Too theatrical by far. Ridiculous with the yellows. That bit of conversation and strutting about with the assistant referees was bad opera. He is too busy trying to prove he is in charge. He is insecure. He is shite. I pity his wife.
Re: Ghost of Bill I'll elaborate. He was being an egotistical putz and cruising for a João Pinto-style castigation from our boys.
Chowderhead/Ghost LOL! You’re critiquing him because he’s too theatrical? How would you rate Collina? He takes theatrics to a another level.
Re: Chowderhead/Ghost Collina por lo menos pulls his crap both ways. The little sweaty jock tosser Dallas....
Re: Re: Re: Ghost of Bill Why? I didn't complain about the loss or even the controversial noncall on the hand ball. We had our chances to win and didn't convert. All of that has nothing to do with the fact that Hugh Dallas is an officious little prick. He shouldn't be refereeing. He should be working behind a window at the Department of Motor Vehicles in some state like New Jersey or New York where being an officious little prick is part of the job. I really don't care that much since fans and players on the east side of the Atlantic have to deal with that "Little Napoleon" on a regular basis.
Ghost… Ghost… USA v Germany obviously wasn’t you first introduction to Hugh Dallas. Care to share other experieces? What’s got you dander up? All this anger can't be based on this one match. What's up?
Re: Ghost… Why not? I watched a lot of reffing in the World Cup . . . good, bad and ugly. He was both pedantic and absurd in the USA/Germany match -- I've never seen anything quite like it. Anytime a ref feels obliged to steal the show as he did, it is generally a sign that he is not up to the task. The ref you can't talk about was probably the best. Hugh Dallas seems to want to walk off the pitch as the focus of discussion. I suppose that you are correct in your surmise in some fashion. Both before and since the WC I've read a number of commentators that have shared similar feelings about the man's performances. Most to the effect that his silly strutting as evidenced in the USA-Germany match was par for his course. What are you, his nephew? His wife?
If he did an admirable job why did Beckenbauer say he blew the game? Why did Pele and Platini voice similar concerns? Why did FIFA apologize for the refs a day or two after this disgraceful game? Vfish and other FIFA fans don't address the diving or the suspensions do they? How about cutting injury time short? OK ignore it. Admirably.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Ghost of Bill Hardly, you should read me when I really believe a ref screwed us over. Dallas is simply a martinet.
No wonder we get screwed by FIFA when so many American fans alibi for the refs we get. It is the same old story. We get a guy like Rodolfo Sibrian or Uli Schmeir in an important game. Someone points out the obvious; that all the calls went against the U.S. and even an AYSO 9 year old game would not have such bad reffing. The person who dares to criticize FIFA's refs is denounced with references to Oliver Stone and conspiracies. The moderators start circling. Insults fly. Claptrap about the Loch Ness Monster and UFOs gets thrown into the pot. The sacred cow must be protected. On Big Soccer, you can't even discuss the Yallop book "How They Stole the Game", perhaps the best book on systemic corruption in FIFA. When I started a discussion on it it was moved to the Collector's BB. which gets a post ever Ice Age or so. Blatter evidently got the book banned in Switzerland and on Amazon.com. It was avaiable for a brief period and vanished, air-brushed out of existence. So much for free speech. With this sort of support from American "fans" FIFA has adequate cover to keep screwing us. It is not just CONCACAF. CONCACAF did not pick the refs in the World Cup. Just my opinions.
Uh… other than stoppage time, I did address those issues. Please go back a page. I’m not sure what your beef with extra time is… I assume you think we were robbed of a minute or two. As for Beckenbaur, he acknowledged that a PK should have been awarded and the Germans were gracious victors, admitting they were a bit lucky to have won. How this translates into proof that the game was fixed is beyond me. Perhaps we should move on. This thread is old news and has grown from a simple gripe session into the realm of paranoia.
He didn't say that, you pathological liar. Again, not a personal attack, I have the truth defense. BTW, Thomas, you've never addressed my "40 feet away" response.
One guy is paranoid. Another is bitter. So what? That's part of it, isn't it? We bashed Mexico for a month. We've grown a bit bored and hungry for a beef so now we're having another go at Dallas. What's the big deal?
Thomas, the problem that people have with your conspiracy theory, is that you go directly to it without taking into consideration other factors. In Dallas' case, were he on the take, don't you think he would've tried to hide it a little bit? I mean the guy was clearly treating our players differently than the Germans. Isn't it possible that some of these refs just don't like the fact that the U.S. is becoming a team to be reckoned with and their feelings get in the way of how they call the game, without there being a conspiracy. There is a significant number of British who believe that Yanks shouldn't even be playing 'football'. You mentioned the Portugal game, and I remember PORTUGAL receiving a yellow in the first 20 minutes for simulation. That doesn't sound like a ref biased against the U.S. The Korea game was horrible, but any home field team in soccer gets an enormous advantage - ask Man ure. And that is true in almost every sport. The Mexico game was a disgrace, but since when haven't our games against them been that way. Until there are some changes to the refereeing system as a whole, which would include enforcing the rules that are already there, calls are going to continue to be screwed up. I don't deny that there is some corruption in FIFA, but I don't necessarily buy the fact that games were thrown. Mark
Mark, (Flanoverseas) An excellent post I must say. You have a number of good points which I will think about. Thank you for the very reasoned and civil tone too! Tom Flannigan
I want to make a point that might have already been stated before but I will reiterate if it has. First of all, intent only plays a part in SOME, not all, handballs. First off, in almost every handball situation, barring just a very few exceptions(Maradona's HofG the most glaring) players do not intend to hit the ball with their hands. Most players have it either played from an opposing players shot or kick into their hand/arm, or the ball takes a wierd bounce and strikes their hand. Yet many of these unintentional handballs are still called. Why? BECAUSE INTENT ONLY MATTERS IF IT DOES NOT GIVE THE FOULING TEAM THE ADVANTAGE. Meaning, if a players commits the "foul against the game" that is a handball, but the ball goes right to the opposing team, and the handball, as most are, was unintentional, then and only then, is it not a foul. IF, though, the player gives himself, or his team, an advantage by playing the ball with his hand, WHETHER INTENTIONAL OR NOT, it IS a handball. No question about that exists in the FIFA rulebook. A ball that is stopped from crossing the goal line by a players hand is, regardless of intent, a handball. Hugh Dallas knows that. Every top level, and hopefully almost all lower level refs know that. The simple fact is that Hugh Dallas did not see the handball. That is the only excuse. Players were scrambling in the box. He was above the 18, and it all happenned in the blink of an eye. He just didnt see it clear enough to make the call. He lied later to cover up in front of an indignant media. Thats all. As for the linesman who probably did see it, although Kahn may have indeed screened him from it as well, he probably did not have the authority to call the foul in the box. Many referees, at all levels, and especially in big games, tell their linesmen not to make calls in the box. They insist that the task is left to them to avoid second guessing. That way, if a mistake is made, it seems as if two people make it, not just one. A massive game like this would indeed probably be controlled like this. That is the fact, I think, of this matter.
I've avoided this thread because the play in the USA/Germany game was hashed and rehashed through at least 15 pages and hundreds of posts and there is no way that anything more constructive can be said on this subject. People have differing opinions and that's fine. However, as MarioKempes has, I'm sure, taken great pains to point out throughout this thread, certain arguments (like the one immediately above this post that a "handball" that stops a goal is a penalty, regardless of intent) are 100% incorrect and not supported in any way by any facts. No matter what you see on the Sunday amateur rec leagues (admittedly, there can be some poor reffing), intent has to exist for a handling call to be made. The Laws are crystal clear; the foul is "deliberate handling", not "handball". If one wants to argue that Frings deliberatedly handled the ball, you have some circumstantial evidence to back you up, and you're entitled to your opinion. If one wants to argue that it wasn't intentional, there is also evidence to support that theory. It's all in the eye of the beholder on this call and, unfortunately for the US in this case, Dallas' opinion is the only one that matters. But anyway, I digress from my main point. And that is, to ask, how in the world is the fact that a Scottish referee called a penalty in a Scottish league match for a handling offence worthy of a thread in the USMNT N & A forum? I know what the answers are going to be by some, but c'mon, did you think that Dallas wasn't going to make this call for the rest of his life because it was a controversial play at the WC? He, and probably every FIFA ref like him, has seen dozens, if not hundreds of similar plays throughout his career. Some he has deemed to be handling, some he has deemed to be accidental. The two plays are entirely disconnected, one happened in the World Cup, the other in the SPL. The only common denominator is Dallas. Talking about a particular referee hardly seems worthy of "news & analysis", nevermind having anything to do with the USMNT to begin with.