Hugh Dallas sends off player for u know what

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by NYC, Aug 22, 2002.

  1. NYC

    NYC New Member

    Nov 1, 1999
    Was watching the replay of last weekend's Rangers-Hibs game on Fox Sports World. A Hibs player dove to head a ball, which hit his hand before going into the huns' net. Dallas produced the player's second yellow card and sent him off. I nearly put my foot through the television. 4 replays later it was still impossible to decide intent, or the "hand to ball" argument Hughie used after the World Cup, but he seemed to be able to make his mind up immediately. Prick.
  2. radiokvar

    radiokvar New Member

    Jun 13, 2002
    St. Louis, MO
    haha thats rich... maybe he lost a few pounds and was close enough to see it.
  3. Foosinho

    Foosinho New Member

    Jan 11, 1999
    New Albany, OH
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What a tool.
  4. ATL Blue One

    ATL Blue One New Member

    Feb 4, 2001
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It seemed a pretty clear hand ball to me.
  5. jotadia

    jotadia New Member

    Jun 21, 2001
    Atletico Madrid
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That non call at the WC was bogus.
  6. Anthony

    Anthony Member+

    United States
    Aug 20, 1999
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who ate all the haggis?
  7. anderson

    anderson Member+

    Feb 28, 2002
    Houston Dynamo
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I suspect that one of those coins penetrated through his thick skull and is still embedded in there somewhere. Would explain a lot.
  8. Viking64

    Viking64 Member

    Feb 11, 1999
    Tarheel State
    yea. Even FOURFOURTWO gave him a thumbs down for his WC call. In their World Cup Summary issue they roasted him for missing it, then claiming he saw it.
  9. flanoverseas

    flanoverseas New Member

    Mar 2, 2002
    so was the one against Mexico (I'm a US fan)

    You win some, you lose some. Maybe had Arena played Clint from the start and put Josh Wolff in, taken Frankie out of the attack, left an injured Earnie Stewart and ineffective Cobi jones on the bench, the non call is a non issue
  10. SoccerPsycho

    SoccerPsycho New Member

    Aug 18, 2002
    Illinois, USA
    Personally, I'd have to say that the US was the only one who deserves a call. There was no intent on the German handball, but there definitly was on the US punchout.
  11. Ghost

    Ghost Member+

    Sep 5, 2001
    Ther was no true intent on the JOB handball. He did not mean to strike the ball. If you watch him on other challenges in the air, his technique is to get his arm ouit from underneath the other player's arm, so that that his opponent cannot blunt his leap. If you watch him on other challenges, he does the same thing. He deserved the handball because his hand was way away from his body, but if you are saying that he went up wih the idea to punch it out, you're wrong.
  12. Thomas Flannigan

    Feb 26, 2001
    I love Americans who apologize for an outrageous series of refs at the World Cup. It makes it possible for the systemic corruption to continues. A "non call a non issue"? Franz Beckenbauer didn't think so. Right after the game he was was quoted as saying the call was dead wrong. Everyone else saw that handball except for Dallas. I was perhaps 40 feet from Kahn and the ball was over the line too. It should have been a goal and a red card on the German defender. We were robbed and the whole world knows it.
    Mexico would not have scored on the O'Brien handball. I don't know about a PK but Freidel is the only keeper in World Cup history to stop two PKs. I still cannot determine if his arm was pushed by the Mexican. In any case, Perreiria missed some calls in favor of the U.S. too. He did a decent job in an extremely tough game. The U.S. had had PKs called against it in two consecutive games going into the Mexico game, and wire service reports circulating the day of the game pointed out that the U.S. had never had a PK called it is favor in the World Cup while many had been called against it. A PK for Mexico, three in a row, would have made the game look rigged.
    Keep defending these refs. That makes it much easier for FIFA to get away with the same kind of stuff in qualifiers two years hence.
    FIFA and Byron Moreno (the ref who helped Portugal so much in the U.S. game), among others, apologized after the Cup for the bad calls. It seems to me if FIFA and the ref involved admit how bad it was it is kind of hard to say non calls were non issues. But FIFA had to issue some kind of face-saving statement to have any credibility at all. If they had issued a release saying Uli Schmeir, Hugh Dallas and others had called good games they would be laughed out of court. I am not aware of any commentators, outside of U.S. "fans" here, who cling to the argument that the refs in U.S. games were good.
    Before the World Cup I was attacked mercilessly here for predicting that the referees at the Cup would be terrible. I was correct with this prediction. They were terrible, especially when the U.S. played or Korea needed a little help from its friends to win a game or two and sell the tickets. Pele, Beckenbauer and Michelle Platini, men who have no reason to favor the U.S. and who have a lot to lose by questioning the integrity of the refs were candid and honest when they said the U.S. was not treated fairly.
    Just my opinions.
  13. prk166

    prk166 BigSoccer Supporter

    Aug 8, 2000
    Med City
    Amen! Amen!! Amen!!!

    The problem with the whole so-called intent argument is simple. Watch this play again and you'll see that the defender benefits by not moving. By making no attempt to move at all, especially his arm, the player stays right where the ball is going. Sure, it's easy enough to say he didn't intend to play the ball. But it's not like the player was literally 2 feet away and unleashing a rocket of a shot at 80mph and no chance to get out of the way. That should be the true intent of the intention clause.

    What I'm saying is on this play, the player gains a clear advantage by doing absolutely nothing. There was time to react to the ball, time to use a different body part. He didn't and gained an advantage.

    The unfortunate thing is that it wasn't the only botched call of the cup. I refuse to rip on the referees for this, though. We have players who drink, sleep, eat, breath this game 24/7 for year after year after year. Yet the game still uses part-time referees. Just as players need to practice & train, referees do, too. Too bad Blatter is too busy schmoozing with his sychophants to be helping the beautiful game improve.
  14. flanoverseas

    flanoverseas New Member

    Mar 2, 2002
    you read my post too fast. I DID NOT say the it was a non issue.

    The sentence starts with "Maybe had..." I used 'is' instead of 'would be' in the main clause so I see where you might have become confused.
  15. Sandon Mibut

    Sandon Mibut Member+

    Feb 13, 2001
    I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me... I won't let this upset me...
  16. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's not what you predicted.

  17. ripmstr

    ripmstr New Member

    Sep 7, 2000
    Orlando Fl
    I know you don't believe this - neither do I!
  18. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Yesterday's Whine

    Are we still bellyachin' about that non-call? Jezus Pete, it was ages ago! Perhaps we can dig up Pendergrast’s unconscionable call against us in qualifying while we at it.

    The Cup’s over, time to move on…
  19. Thomas Flannigan

    Feb 26, 2001
    Perhaps some of you remember my thread (before things got so bad on these boards) "Will FIFA rig an early departure for the U.S.? In that thread I suggested 3 reasons that the U.S. may get bad referees in Korea. Mike Lastort called me a "paranoid lunatic" and others were also very insulting, trotting out the usual insults such as "conspiracy theory" and so on. Erid d said: "It scares me that people like you are allowed to father children". Moderators swooped in like vultures. But I was right.
    In that thread I suggested 3 reasons why the U.S. may get bad referees in Korea.
    1. Money: Games in Korea were not selling out and FIFA needed to get Korea into the second round to avoid a financial hit. You all saw the game Uli Schmeir called in the Korea-U.S. game, one of the most shameful performances I have ever seen in a sporting event. I correctly predicted this.
    2. Security. The U.S. team caused extra security problems. KOWOC's president said as much when he expressed regret that the U.S. had qualified, Rodolfo Sibrian notwithstanding.
    3. Stopping the U.S. from dominating one of the few things we don't dominate. I took pains to point out that money was far more important than the other two reasons. Indeed, some factions within FIFA probably want the U.S. to do well to make more money. But they don't pick the referees (Codesel, Texeira, etc.)
    Most of the fans worldwide who watched the Korean games, or a significant minority of such fans, think those games were rigged. FIFA took the truly unprecedented step of apologizing for the bad refs. Beckenbauer and Platini, two men who have a chance to succeed Blatter as head of FIFA, publicly upbraided the refs.
    In my opinion FIFA went pretty far to get the results and faces a crisis of credibility as a result.
    If the refs in question were incompetent they should be fired. If the games were rigged different solutions are required.
    Just my opinions.
  20. billf

    billf Member+

    May 22, 2001
    Philadelphia Union
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The call in the Germany game is a funny one. If the ref gave the PK, I don't think anyone would argue, but he didn't give it. By the laws of the game, Dallas has solid reasoning for not giving the call. Honestly, I have no problem with that call. I took issue with the call on the US that gave the Germans the FK that led to the goal. I thought that one was a weak call.

    Nonetheless, if the ball was intentially handled and the ball was accross the goal line already, then it's a goal. You can't send off the player because he didn't deny a goal scoring oppotunity.

    What we saw on TV was not conclusive, but it is not outside the relm of possibilities that the ball completely crossed the line on that play. If so, then the ref team blew it.

    I don't know about the rest of the post though. I don't think there's a referee conspiricy or anything, and I think Moreno did a nice job in the Portugal game. When did he appologize? I never read that.
  21. ctruppi

    ctruppi Member

    May 7, 1999
    Annandale, NJ
    Seems to me there is a simple solution to all this. Change the rules (excuse me, laws) and get rid of the word "intent". Therefore, any and all hand balls are punishable. Period, end of story. This will stop the cowardly refs we have seen from hiding behind that utterly useless word! What are these guys anyway, mighty wizards who can see the minds of men?!?! Not only do we ask these generally out-of-shape, non-athletes to run at beakneck speed up and down the length of a pitch for 90 minutes to keep up up with some of the finest athletes on the planet, but we also ask them in an instant, an in real-time, to decide the underlying "motivation" of a player's action!! What a bunch of bullsh!t!! This has to be one of the stupidest things in all sports and is an easy out for plain bad calls.
  22. Re: Yesterday's Whine

    ANYWAY! Who's sausage did he lick to get in J/K? Hes just horrible....

    On a happier note, I thought Byron Moreno did a wonderful job in the US v Portugal game. It was controlled and he was very professional. Everyone makes mistakes, but you can really only criticize people like Hugh Dallas who admitted he saw it...yet never called it! Thats was disgusting! The Hand of JOB in the Mexico game? You get stuff like that. Refsarent gonna get everything....but I tihnk it was somewhat fair because Blanco shoudl have easily been red carded a few times over. Besides...I think JOB's was unintentional.

    Now Pendergast's calls in qualifying? Well...*************** happens....but Im not that hurt anymore because it didnt screw us over in the end...
  23. Thomas Flannigan

    Feb 26, 2001
    Good post Billf. Moreno told the press after the Korea-Italy game that he had made many mistakes. That is an understatement.
    About one billion people saw the handball in the U.S.-Germany game. Funny Hugh Dallas is the only one who didn't. You are correct about the terrible call that led to the lone German goal (same thing Schmeir did to Donavan for the lone Korean goal against the U.S.).
    Dallas also sliced 60-90 seconds off the injury time determined by the 4th ref, gave the U.S. a couple of bogus cards, and gave Germany free kick after free kick when they were not warranted.
    I admire Beckenbauer's courage when he blasted Dallas for not calling a PK against his own countrymen. Defend Dallas, Schmeir and the rest all you want. Just don't complain when we get Rodolfo Sibriani for a 4th time in a crucial 2005 qualifier.
    Just my opinions.
  24. fox point fury

    May 19, 2001
    On a side note, during a bundesliga broadcast last week (I forget who was playing) the announcers mentioned that the rules of the game (at least in Germany) were recently changed to say that accidental hand-balls that save goals will not be punished.
  25. VFish

    VFish Member+

    Jan 7, 2001
    Atlanta, GA
    Bad calls are part of the game. Some go for you, some against. The fact is, it was Oliver Kahn that beat us that day, not Hugh Dallas.

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