Re: Re: ... ENOUGH WHINING ALREADY! ... Would any of this matter if we had scored? of course not. Stop worrying about how others handle the game. If this team does it's job, we win. We've seen that season long. When we sit and wait for the other team to lose, we blow leads and give up OT goals.
Re: Re: ... ENOUGH WHINING ALREADY! ... Several coaches have used the rule in exactly the same way. The reason people got up in arms this time was because the sub paid off tactically with a game winning goal. I don't have time to look up the specific cases but for evidence I'll leave you this quote from Connolly: "I wasn’t simply taking Bradley’s side. Several other coaches have done the same move this year where they substitute a field player in as a goalkeeper only to have him switch positions with the regular keeper seconds later after play begins. If a manager fails to help his side in overtime by not taking advantage of that loophole, then he is simply not doing his job." You need to decide what you want to complain about and call cheating. Is it the subsitution itself or the uniforms? My sense is most people are moaning about the substitution. Then someone says how the sub was legal and they retreat to saying "yeah, ok - but they didn't wear the proper uniforms." That's pretty petty if you ask me. Well, I'm not gonna argue this anymore. Believe what you want. I'm just waiting for someone to come along and blame Bradley for costing us those two points and perhaps ultimately for depriving us of a post-season run. That's where this really is going, isn't it? If that's the excuse someone wants to use so they don't have to admit that DC United sucked this year then more power to them. Just don't ask me to be dishonest with you ...
Re: Re: Re: ... ENOUGH WHINING ALREADY! ... I never said this cost us the game, or that we shouldn't blame ourselves for that pathetic loss. I said the substitution was against both the letter and spirit of the rules, which it was.
Re: Re: Re: ... ENOUGH WHINING ALREADY! ... OK, so on one hand you rely on the argument that "it was technically within the rules" to justify it, but then when I point out that it wasn't "technically" within the rules, you say I'm being petty? That's quite convenient. The move was against the spirit of the USSF interpretation, and it was against the letter of the rules. What more do you want? Why would anyone make that stupid argument? Did you forget about the Priddeaux double-yellow? These things always even out in the end. This is not about DCU being robbed of anything... we suck and have nobody but ourselves to blame if we don't make the playoffs. That doesn't mean we can't point out that Bradley cheated in that game, just like Stoitchkov did on Sunday (although's Hristo's awful dive was much worse).
Re: ... ENOUGH WHINING ALREADY! ... No disagreement here. We suck and have no one to blame even if we DO make the playoffs, especially considering we could easily be the #2 seed. My only argument is to say that Bradley pulled a stunt which is far more loathesome than continuing to play when an opposing player is down. Given the importance everyone in soccer officialdom places on good sportsmanship, and the way it is institutionalized, then there can be no defense for Bradley's "craftiness" unless we are willing to call the Fair Play crap for what it is -- namely, feel-good horse*#*#*#*#*# -- and move to toss it out the window. I don't think that's going to happen, especially when you consider how excited the USSF got for our good sportsmanship award at the 98 World Cup (though, admittedly, that is better than the other distinction we picked up in 98). AQ
Correct me if I'm wrong (you refs out there in particular), but I don't actually think there's actually a rule about numbers on uniforms in the Laws of The Game either. I suspect there are often competition regulations that require numbers. At the WC, for instance, I know there are competition regulations that govern the numbering of players. So as far as I can tell there's no violation there either. And if Mike's right and there's nothing about jersey numbers in the MLS regulations then Bradley really didn't do anything wrong with that sub.
According to the USSF: Goal Keeper Uniforms with Numbers The Laws of the Game do not mention, much less require, that players display numbers anywhere on their jerseys. This same is true for goalkeepers. Law 4 (The Players' Equipment) states only that "a jersey or shirt" is "compulsory equipment" for players and that "each goalkeeper wears colors (a jersey) which distinguish him from other players, the referee and the assistant referees." Any further requirement related to player uniforms is left to the discretion of national associations, leagues, or tournaments in their "rules of competition" which must be studied by referees prior to officiating any affiliated match. Although the wearing of standard team colors and unique numbers on player shirts is common throughout the soccer community, and especially in the USA, it is equally common for goalkeeper jerseys to be excepted. The United States Soccer Federation leaves such matters to the discretion of the state association, leagues or tournaments. As permitted by USSF, MLS HQ mandates the jersey/short/sock color of both teams for each match. (I think somebody was fined recently for not obeying this.) I'm not really sure whether MLS mandates that players wear numbers. In this particular match, the Metros were to wear white jerseys with white shorts and white socks. Tim Howard wore black shorts with a white jersey when he was in the field. Is this a petty point? Absolutely. However, Bradley intended to use a technically legal tactic (which had never been used before in a non-injury situation) that violates the spirit of the USSF interpretation. Under such circumstances, I think it's perfectly fair to require that he actually succeed in technically following the rules, which he did not if you take the "color of uniform" instruction seriously.
That would be KC you're talking about. There's was silly though. During an afternoon game, they wore white shorts and socks with their blue top, while Colorado wore all white. The League said that KC looked too similar to Colorado and was thus fined.
They don't require numbers. Look it up in the link I provided. Tim Howard during regulation (in goal) Tim Howard, without a number, during overtime (on the field)
Eddie Gavin during overtime (on the field, about to score the game winner) It looks to me like the "color of uniform" instruction was followed to the letter of the law. Do I think this loss sucked? You betcha. In fact, I was bitching about Bradley violating the rules until I read up on what the rules state and I discovered that he didn't do anything wrong. He used the rules to his own advantage. Some may call that cheating. I call it good coaching.
What the hell, might as well provide the link to Rule 4, "Player Equipment," while I'm at it. Not a thing about numbers. Bupkis. Zilch. Nada. And it's really quite simple to click on any of the other links on the lower right hand side of that page and search for anything about jersey numbers anywhere in the MLS rulebook. There's nothing there. I checked. So not a single MLS rule was violated when Bradley "substituted" Gavin for Howard. I wish there was. Does anyone really think that if a rule had been violated that the DC United front office wouldn't have protested the game? They didn't. That should be evidence enough that Bradley didn't "cheat." Then again, those of you who say he did cheat won't be convinced.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Hudson May Leave United At End of Season (WP, 10/19), The Jeffries sub was clearly to get an extra player. I actually posted the wrong link because he used it one way in April when Countess got hurt, then did it the same way Bradley did in May - http://www.mlsnet.com/games/03/tracker.php?gamename=05172003_LADAL&version=recap No inuries. I think it was used that way at least one other time, but can't remember specifics. Parse it all you want, Bradley didn't do it first.
This seems as good a place as any to compliment many DC fans on showing the fair-mindedness to recognize that Stoitchkov's dive in the weekend's game was the most outrageous of many poor calls, and however awful the ref was, he didn't take the game from DC. And the painstaking explanation of the goalkeeper substitutions in that Metros game at RFK is just as fair-minded. Bofahey: keep banging that flat head against this particular wall.
The Cheatin' Bob phrase is here to stay. R&B and I got a particularly satisfying reaction from him hearing us chant it at Rutgers. Judging by his reaction, I'd venture to say that he feels a bit guilty about his shenanigans. The loss to the mutts was particularly loathsome because our number one pick got hit in the forehead by a ball from Marco during regulation but managed to put the potential game-winning ball over the bar. The center ref Terry never even came close to playing the reasonable amount of stoppage time and, of course, then came Cheatin' Bob's trickery There's nothing to do about it now except to loudly remind Cheatin' Bob at every possible instance of his dishonorable behavior. What goes around, comes around and I will be laughing in his face when he faces such frustrations in the future. Like I said earlier, gone but not forgotten. GM ps: We are all lucky to be alive to have a chance to be enlightened by Haig's prose. Four words: really, really suck allocation.
As one of the originial hi-jackers of this thread can we get back to the original topic? Will Ray resign, be fired or after a month or so relaxing in Florida be ready to come back to coach DC, assuming management still wants him?
Indeed! Very good work. But it's sort of a shame it had to come to that. Frankly, the color of Tim Howard's shorts is such a small point - and one entirely separate from the 4th substituion IMO - that it's absurd to talk about the two things in the same paragraph.
Hmmm... I stand corrected! Just to nitpick though, I doubt that a field player is permitted to wear a bright yellow long sleeve shirt under a short-sleeved white jersey under the MLS HQ instructions. If a player did this at the start of the match, I'm sure the referee would tell him to change shirts, because he could easily be mistaken as the team's keeper. Especially considering that that the Metros goalkeeper (Gavin) was wearing white shorts and white socks at the time. In light of Howard wearing all of that exposed yellow, as well as GK gloves, it would be easy for a player to be confused which of the two was the keeper. So I will believe Bradley cheated until I die, no matter how many photos or rulebook provisions are cited to the contrary!!! What was the original topic again?
I am all for Ray moving back to South Florida, restoring his health and returning to the broadcast booth. As to new coaches, no player or assistant currently with the team should be considered. it would seem the right credentials would be someone with MLS assistant experience and some form of head coaching (A league or NCAA) experience. But no one like that comes to mind. Given that I would love to see Onalfo come here. Would also like to see Myernick, but don't think we would give up the Olympics at this point.
Don't doubt. Look it up. I gave you the links. The rules don't have anything about shirts under jerseys either. Sorry.
You just gave a link to the MLS rulebook. The uniform instructions aren't published in it. If Marco Etcheverry decided that instead of wearing a black jersey like other DCU players, he was going to wear a gold DCU jersey from now on during our games to honor his golden left foot, that wouldn't be prohibited by any specific provision in the MLS rulebook or the LOTG either. Think that would be permissible? Once again, HQ mandates uniform instructions. There's nothing in the rulebook that states what colors teams must wear, but somehow there must be a rule if MLS could fine the Wizards for disobeying the instructions, right? In any event, the LOTG do provide that the GKs must wear clothing that makes them distinguishable from field players. My larger point is that with Gavin's white shorts and white socks, and Howards long sleeve yellow shirt and GK gloves with identical shorts and socks to Gavin, the Metros' keeper (Gavin) was not sufficiently distinguishable from one of their field players (Howard). It essentially looked like they had two GKs out there. The LOTG are like a constitution. You use common sense in interpreting them. Howard's attire was not appropriate for a field player, and no player would be allowed to wear that attire (yellow long sleeve shirt, numberless jersey, GK gloves) at the start of a match despite there being no specific provision in the published MLS rulebook prohibiting it. Enough with this tangent. We'll have to agree to disagree.