How would you handle this?

Discussion in 'Referee' started by atilla, Oct 16, 2003.

  1. atilla

    atilla New Member

    Oct 11, 2002
    Arizona
    I was in an adult co-ed rec game last night and the ball was in our penalty area. The ball was pinballing around a bit and it hit a defender in the bicep.

    What would you call?
     
  2. Scott Zawadzki

    Feb 18, 1999
    Midlothian, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    When you say "pinballing around" it sounds like your describing a "bang-bang" play. If the defender was not playing the ball, then I would do nothing. If it appeared to me that the defender was making a play on the ball with his arm, I would award a penaly kick.

    note: "Handling" is one of those calls that involves the opinion-of-the-referee. I personally have rarely called handling in the last 3 years or so. I made a decision back then that I would only call those instances when the ball hit part of the arm "handling" when I was sure that the intent of the player was indeed to play the ball with his arm/hand. It is a practice that gets me a lot of jeering from players, coaches & parents. It is not the popular or expected call, but I believe that it is the right one. Many (maybe most) referees would look at your example and immediatly conclude PK. It is up to their opinion/interpretation of the facts as they see them.

    To wrap this up, the ref was right...no matter what he called.

    Scott
     
  3. LotharDSM

    LotharDSM New Member

    Oct 3, 2002
    Des Moines, IA
    Much agreed. I rarely call it and always hear about it. "It hit his arm!!!". SO WHAT! As a player I've always hated the "it hit his arm so it's a hand ball" calls a lot of refs make (and ALL the fans of the opposing team) even though the player may not have even seen the ball coming or the ball would have hit the body anyway. It seems like more handballs are called by refs that haven't played the game, those with more actually game-time knowledge seem to let it go more often...
     
  4. atilla

    atilla New Member

    Oct 11, 2002
    Arizona
    Thanks, Scott. By "pinballing," I meant "a bunch of unskilled players were kicking the ball trying to get it to go away from the goal or into the goal, making it bounce off many of them in the process!"

    The ref awarded a penalty kick.
     
  5. AvidSinger

    AvidSinger New Member

    Sep 6, 2002
    Massachusetts
    Sounds like a classic case of......



    ....You Had To Be There

    (brought to you by Buzz Cola -- if you want to drink, make sure you get a Buzz!)
     
  6. SoCalRef

    SoCalRef New Member

    Oct 6, 2003
    San Diego
    Sounds like he should have let it go. As a defender for an arena team I can't tell you how many times a ball has been kicked into my arm after deflecting off someone or after "pinballing" off of a few players feet. The more experience the referee has the less likely he is to consider it handling. I personally rarely call handling unless the person reaches out for the ball. Just remember this: If the ball played the player it is not handling, if the player played the ball with his arm/hand it is handling.
     
  7. Turin

    Turin New Member

    Sep 14, 2003
    California
    I would not have called this situation for handling. It sounds as if the player did not intentionally touch the ball with his hand, hence no handball. Obviously I cannot make a complete judgement of the situation without seeing the whole thing, but from what you have said, no handball.
     
  8. Statesman

    Statesman New Member

    Sep 16, 2001
    The name says it all
    "Pinballing" won't be added to the list of DFK offenses in Law 12 until the 2005 edition.
     
  9. jc508

    jc508 New Member

    Jan 3, 2000
    Columbus, Ohio area
    If the defender moved his arm to play the ball, and in so doing, DELIBERATLY HANDLED the ball, then a foul should have been called and a PK awarded.

    If the defender's arm was in a relatively natural position when the BALL HIT the player's arm, then there should be NO foul.

    If it ain't DELIBERATE, it ain't no foul, no way, no how.

    Moving the arm/hand to the ball is a real good sign that it was Deliberate.
     
  10. whipple

    whipple New Member

    May 15, 2001
    Massachusetts
    With all due respect, I belive the restart for pinballing will be an IFK at the point of the pin when it was balled, unless covered under the special circumstances listed in Law 8.
     
  11. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Member+

    Real Madrid, DC United, anywhere Pulisic plays
    Aug 3, 2000
    Raleigh, NC
    Club:
    Real Madrid
    Was the player a "pinball wizard" named Tommy?
     
  12. whipple

    whipple New Member

    May 15, 2001
    Massachusetts
    Who?
     
  13. Scott Zawadzki

    Feb 18, 1999
    Midlothian, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    First Base!
     
  14. jacathcart

    jacathcart New Member

    Oct 11, 2002
    Tacoma WA
    ROTFL! You guys have way too much time on your hands!

    Jim
     
  15. DualYellow

    DualYellow Member

    Sep 5, 2006
    Here's the way I look at and call handling. If the player that handled the ball gets an advantage from that handling, I whistle it. The only exception to this rule is if the ball comes off of someone and almost instantaneously hits the arm (in which case I rule the ball played the arm, not the other way around). I even whistle this exception sometimes if the player that handled gets undo advantage. Although if the arm is against the body then I may let it go.

    As said before, handling is a call that is ITOOTR. That's just my $.2.

    P.S. - I know What is on second, but does anyone know who is in left field?
     
  16. Evo5

    Evo5 New Member

    Jun 8, 2006
    Sydney Australia
    Why ;)

    Back on the subject, and maybe you guys have a differing interpretation, but gaining an advantage should not be a criteria for deciding whether or not it is a Deliberate Hand Ball.
     
  17. IASocFan

    IASocFan Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 13, 2000
    IOWA
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the ball just happens to land at a players feet, I might be a little more skeptical that he wasn't able to react to a ball coming at him. :rolleyes:
     
  18. macheath

    macheath New Member

    Jul 8, 2005
    DC
    No, anyone on the pitch who is deaf, dumb, and blind must be a referee...:)
     
  19. Wahoo

    Wahoo New Member

    Aug 15, 2001
    Seattle, USA
    Continuing 2 jokes from 3 years ago?
    Lol
     
  20. Spaceball

    Spaceball Member

    Jun 15, 2004
    I hate to burst your bubble, but this is just wrong. Outcome has absolutely nothing to do with determining handling. The only thing you judge is if it is deliberate. It may be deliberate and not benefit the team at all...still handling. If it is not deliberate, goes off an arm and in to the goal...it is a goal...not handling! It is a tough concept, but you have to take out outcome completely out of your decision making process.

    Handling is the most overcalled DFK...I had a national assessor tell me that if you never whistled handling, you would be correct 80% of the time.

    Instead of thinking of advantage in determining handling,ask yourself other questions:

    1) Did the hand play the ball or did the ball play the hand?
    2) Was the arm in a normal playing position?
    3) Did the player have time to react to the situation?
    4) Was the player aware of the ball?

    There are others, but these are a start. Nowhere should you ask yourself, "did the player gain an advantage?"
     
  21. Evo5

    Evo5 New Member

    Jun 8, 2006
    Sydney Australia
    I would be lucky to call DHB more than a few times each season. I did 6 summer comp games yesterday and had around 3 brazzilion calls for HB, of which I gave 4. Everything from the ball being blasted into an opposition player from 1 yard, to striking a defender who was running down field with their back to play and got hit in the arm from behind :rolleyes:

    i really wish players would learn that touches arm/hand does not equal DHB *every time*
     
  22. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Handling by the oppossing team is always deliberate.:rolleyes:

    The longer I ref, the longer it seems to take me to make a decision on a handling offense. Every game I do, there are numerous times I see the ball make contact with a player in the area perscribed for handling, yet don't stop play. I make it clear to the players I saw what happened, but allow play to continue.

    It's gotten to the point, when there is actual "deliberate handling", it is a big suprise and I will take a second or two to blow the whistle. Better late than wrong.
     
  23. ref47

    ref47 Member

    Aug 13, 2004
    n. va
    why????????
     
  24. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    I like that statement from the assessor. It seems like a fairly accurate statement.
     
  25. refontherun

    refontherun Member+

    Jul 14, 2005
    Georgia
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Handling is the most overcalled DFK...I had a national assessor tell me that if you never whistled handling, you would be correct 80% of the time.

    I think that about covers it.
     

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