How would you fix United this offseason?

Good article, but my impression is that those salaries are not correct. Who knows, but my understanding was that Convey made about 75k and Santino made about 50k with escalation to about 70k by the next year or two. I also thought that Pope made 180k rather than 265k. I thought Olsen made about 120k rather than 180k. I distinctly recall Goff or another writer saying that Reyes was signed for less than 100k per year. What the numbers really are, who knows, but they do make a big difference.

Nelsen is looking at Europe again, so he'll require money to resign, and possibly require more money than Reyes or Pope, despite not being as good of a player IMHO. Without Nelsen we're again stuck without an organizing central defender, so we may have to shell out big bucks to keep him.

On Moreno, he has to show committment and health, so we can delay that decision for a while, but we need to decide prior to the preseason. If he's not fit and physically in prime shape, he'll have to be moved, and another SI finisher acquired.

Moreno is the harder decision though, and I think he'll be offered a significantly lower salary--again. So it'll probably be a matter of whether he's willing to play for peanuts with incentives or whether he would rather make more elsewhere.

-Tron

 

Soccer talents like Convey exist in every nation in the world, they're just average players. Convey nor Chino will never be able to fill in for Diablo.

I say keep him for one more year and see how Diablo works with a modified Hudson team.

I dont mind tradeing Moreno.

 

New forward and A-mid. Reyes with ITT as D-mids in 3-5-2?

Really good analysis eltico.

I agree that we unfortunately need to shed Etcheverry and Moreno, and also Williams.

We then need a quality striker / pure scorer / finisher / spearhead / whatever up front to pair with Quaranta. Lets give Q2 a bit more time to develop before thrusting him into a starters role. He would be a good third forward / midfield depth. Perhaps Curtis could be our fourth forward.

IMHO we also need to replace Etch at A-Mid, not bring Convey into the middle. Perhaps we could get Chacon from New England???? Would they trade him for Moreno?? Is there anyone else we could trade?

Leave Olsen and Convey at wing, with Villegas and Mapp as backups.

Then for D-Mid. If we go to a 3-5-2 we could keep McKinley as a holding mid. Perhaps we could try Reyes as his partner at D-Mid, with Prideaux, Nelsen and Pope as the 3 defenders. Namoff might be a decent backup D-Mid.

We then would really need to add some depth at defense via the draft or trades.

I like the possibility of bringing in Dante Washington as a forward for us. I haven't seen enough of him, though to be sure that he is still starting MLS striker quality.

So adios to Etch, Moreno, Williams, Alavanja. Lassiter, Zambrano, and possibly Chino. Amman will retire.

Still, the big question is how could we move Moreno if he still has many years on his contract and a huge salary? Do we just cut him?! Would anyone want to trade for him??

If we absolutely cannot move Moreno, and can't bear the idea of cutting him and getting no value other than cap room, how do people think he'd do as an A-mid?

He could just focus on playmaking, and not worry about having to get the monkey off his back as to his finishing woes.

In this scenario, we would really just be looking for a new forward, and we'd have Etch's cap room to use. If Washington is good enough, sounds like he'd fit in easily cap-wise, and then we could use the other $$ to marginally imrpove our supporting cast and give out raises to key players like Rimando and Nelsen, and also to absorb Quaranta's salary if he graduates from P-40 status.

 

I would not be opposed to getting rid of every player on this team. I am not that attached to any of them.

The last several seasons, I have always been disappointed when they got rid of players. I won't be that sorry to see any of the remaining players go.

Even the ones who presided over our good times are now tainted in my mind by three years of presiding overt three seasons that have been the equivalent of three years of vomiting after four years of having fun and heavy drinking.

 

Thank you for putting it in terms that I can clearly understand.

I disagree a little bit with you about getting rid of players. There are a few that I would be very upset about getting rid of, and those I think most people agree on. Players who are new and represent birght spots on a dim team: Reyes, Rimando, Nelsen, maybe Quaranta, Olsen (only because I think he deserves a shot to regain his form), maybe a couple others....

But yeah, I think the concept of 'untouchables' is one that we won't hear about this off-season like we did last year. Pretty much everyone is playing for their spot on this team, and everyone may be moved under the right circumstances this off-season.

 

Those players listed by Doppler are the only ones to definitely keep. I would say that Tino is untouchable. He has been by far our best forward the past two years...which is not saying much. But in terms of value and upside, Quaranta is gold.

With most all others, there are serious questions and some easy answers.

Convey...keep, maybe. But you have to address the "value" thing. I would entertain trades for Bobby. He may be a very tradeable player because of his youth, potential, and left foot, but I think we can all agree that he has not excelled in DC. His only plus is his "upside", which we have only seen in glimpses, but not when it counts.

Marco - Don't let the door smack your you know what.

Jaime - Go to South America, maybe to Argentina over the winter and try and prove your worth and health...then we'll see. I would welcome a fit and hungry Moreno as an attacking mid in place of Marco. One quality that people overlook of Jaime's is his ability (when fit) to win the ball. His days as a striker may be done, but few people in the history of this league have Jaime's ball skills.

Eddie - Rest. Rest some more. Then come back focused. Otherwise, good luck in Europe.

Alegria - Good Value, but this guy needs to get faster and more athletic...which is a hard thing to do at all, let alone in a single off-season. I say keep, IF he has oversight on a weight/training program.

Curtis, Lassiter, Alavanja, Williams, McKinley, Zambrano = Roadkill. Get off my street you're skunking the place up.

Mapp - I have no idea. Keep him for the value, I guess.

Quintanilla - Maybe...but this dude is even slower than Chino. Tough to get faster, but he is young...he's worth a chance due to his composure on the ball.

Amman - I don't see how we can keep him with Rimando absolutely guaranteed to be the #1 for years to come.

Villegas - Keep, if his salary is low and does not escalate too much. Good bench player...let him accept that role.

Lord knows how we'll fill out the roster, but I would welcome this house clearing. Unlike the 2000/2001 estate sale, this one is truly warranted.

The primary point, though, is that we CANNOT fill the tank back up with muddy, polluted water. Go across town to the good well, Ray!

Tim

 

Here's some math. The top points leader on each team:

LA, Ruiz, 45 pts
New England, Twellman, 45 pts
Chicago, Razov, 34 pts
Columbus, Cunningham, 33 pts
San Jose, Graziani, 33 pts
Dallas, Kreis, 30 pts
Columbus, Chung, 29 pts
Metros, Faria, 27 pts
Kansas City, Preki, 21 pts
DC, Nelsen, 11 pts (next in line Moreno, 10 pts, Q1 10 pts)

Our highest points leader is a defender who took time off in the season to go to a tournament for his country

Kansas City doesn't count, they are a boring pathetic joke of a team and always will be with Gansler as coach

We don't have a leader on offense. Clear as day. We need to dump salary and find one. Not too hard to figure out

I think Mike outsmarts himself. The answer is plain as day-he thinks because it's so simple there's more to it than dump our offensive players-there isn't. Q1 and Q2 I keep-everyone else can go, some need to go

 

Forget about who you like on the squad. If we're going to improve, we're going to have to do several things.

1. A bunch of guy stay healthy and have career years or rebound significantly from their play of the past 2-3 years. That would include: Etcheverry, Moreno, Williams, Pope, McKinley, Olsen, and Lassiter. That only isn't likely, it's near impossible.

2. Hope for the "Mathis Syndrome" where we trade for or acquire a youngster not making the max who proceeds to be a "difference maker" on the field--averaging a goal every two games, scoring at key moments, creating goals and finishing. That's not real likely. Maybe Quaranta would take 3-4 steps up in his game and stay healthy but that's pretty unfair to ask that of him. Don't see anyone in the draft that would fit this description. Maybe a youngster from overseas.

3. Dump 2-3 maximum salary players. Forget who they are. We definitely need a finisher regardless of who stays or goes. If Moreno goes or moves to midfield, we likely need TWO forwards (remember, Quintanilla is on loan or trial--we have an option to buy but I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't work out. Plus, Quaranta has had significant injury problems in both of his years in MLS. As has Convey.) Amman's salary probably goes just to cover pay increases for players who deserve them.

We're probably in a situation where we're going to have to dump max. salary players not b/c they're over the hill or no-good or even b/c they don't want to be in DC (Moreno, Etcheverry, Pope and Williams all want to stay here) but b/c we can get a player who plays as well as they do for less (or a player who plays better than they do for the same amount.).

This is about cap room. If we are going to add two forwards (which is what needs to happen if Moreno plays mid or we dump him), if we're going to add a decent attacking mid, we're going to need to dump at least 2-3 maximum salary players.

 

Interesting discussion. But just saying someone should go doesn't mean it's as easy as that.

I'd say Moreno is on the way out, but how he goes is an interesting question. Ray seems to want someone outside MLS, which means freeing up Jaime's salary. How will that happen? You can't do it by trading player for player like Graziani for Cerritos. No way MLS let's Jaime be simply cut or waived. Loan deal is a possibility, but I'd bet that would be tough to work out for someone with Moreno's clout in the league. I can't imagine anyone in MLS trading a young talent like Buddle or EJ for him as they would be taking too much of a gamble and even so, the young player would need a raise after a year anyway and you have the same problem all over. A trade for draft picks or some such things sounds pretty ridiculous on it's face, too since Jaime simply has too much value to be let go like that.

Be curious to see how this plays out.

BTW, as for Marco, I think he'll bite the bullet and re-sign for less money for real this time, not just lose some nebulous endorsement money. I beleive he'd rather stay here and help create a winner for around 160K-200K rather than finish his career in China or some other nonsense.

 

Nice post slacker, welcome aboard! You've obviously been here for some time, so forgive my belated greetings.

Many good ideas, and I think most of us are coming to the same conclusions. Diceson's excellent Practice Notes of 9/10/2002 revealed that Hudson said

so we may get to see Convey's audition in the middle, even if it does come when he has a separated shoulder and will likely be brutalized physically.

For next season, if Etch retires and Moreno is healthy and fit, I see Moreno returning. He may be used as an attacking midfielder much like the Fire use Nowak, and he can move forward into the front line and allow Convey to take over in the center of the park sometimes as well.

Good point JoeW, I had forgotten that Eliseo wasn't under contract, only on loan with an option to purchase. I guess that's why he isn't playing, because Hudson wants to purchase him but doesn't want his price to go up so isn't in a hurry to get him in the game. Zambrano clearly will not be returning, so I cannot see another reason to not start Eliseo.

If Nelsen's injury is as bad as reported, I doubt a European club will risk taking him next season. Likely he'll play at least one mroe season with United. Ditto for Olsen. They'll want to see a history of health.

As for the draft, no, there will likely not be any Twellmans, but Nate Jaqua isn't that far behind Edson Buddle at this point, and I don't think we'd mind getting a player of that caliber who takes no hit to our salary cap. If nothing else, he's good enough for a 4th forward, and we all know that with United's health issues, 4th forwards get a LOT of playing time. Knox Cameron has a lot of raw talent, but he hasn't shown enough finishing ability yet to merit the top pick.

-Tron

 

I'd dump Moreno for starters. He's a cancer eating away at the team.

 

As Marco10 said a few posts ago, it's not that simple..

Moreno is an injured max salary player.. Simply no team in the league will trade even up for that..


The only way Moreno gets traded is if another team agrees to pay some or most of Jaime's remaining contract for each season that is left on it (similar to the Mutts paying most of Bichie's contract this season, but we are on the hook for the remainder of his contract)..

That ain't gonna happen unless Moreno gets fully fit, and if he is fully fit, he could still be very useful to this team...

 

TEConner,

I think you are right about Moreno. However, what I would like to see is him return to DC United fired up as a combination A-mid/withdrawn forward. Sort of the role Bergkamp plays for Arsenal. Put two more defensive/holding midfielders behind him with two attacking wingers on either side and a striker (go for goal gusto poacher style striker with speed) in front of him.

I could see a line up of:

---Rimando---

Reyes---Nelsen---Pope---Prideaux

Quaranta---Holding Mid---Holding Mid---Olsen

---Moreno---

---Poacher with pace---

Of course we'd be dumping a lot of players including Convey, Etch, Williams, McKinley, et al...

 

Merged threads about the salary cap issues with what to do with DC United. They were becoming duplicate discussions...

Anyone have a problem with what I did can send an e-mail to

imthebossofallofyou@powerhungrymoderators.com

 

Thought I'd try bringing back this thread . . .

I thought that this was a really good thread, and that maybe we should bring it back, since the subject is being constantly discussed in myriad other threads.

Regarding Moreno. Hudson sure is confusing, or a BSer on this subject. At least we will definitely have something to speculate about ad nauseum in the off season (let it not come too soon )

Ken Wright says that his contract is up after this year.

www.washingtontimes.com/sports/20020919-58341935.htm

Is this right? What's the truth on this? Diceson? Zach? Mr. Goff? anyone?

I thought that he had a couple of years left on his contract - and thus Marco10's observations that dumping Jaime will not necessarily be easy would be right on target.

BTW, has anyone who posted their ideas and assessments in this thread changed their mind much after the last two games vrs. Metros? And if you have (as many seem to have on Marco), do you think you're really just getting carried away by a little taste of success?

I still say that it's a really close call whether Etch should be back, and with Moreno - if his contract were truly up, I think he'd surely be gone.

As everyone agrees, we need another forward - a good finisher / "spearhead" to go with our more creative type forwards. And we could really stand to upgrade at D-Mid. Sorry Richie. Thanks for the memories.

But I really don't expect a wholesale change. Maybe four or five players. We need to build on what (l;ittle) we have accomplished this year - such as a good defense - not do another radical overhaul like in 2000.

 

First, I"m pretty sure that Moreno's contract is up. Plus, it's also pretty standard practice for MLS to loan out players who teams don't want. Zambrano was in Colombia. Sunsing was loaned out by NE.

Second, the league isn't happy about it, but cutting a player under contract is do-able. The league still pays them (or some sort of severance) but the team can jetison them. Bishop, Cate--those are just two examples of guys making the max (or close to it) who were under contract and got jetisoned out of the league (Bishop even sued to get his money and lost the suit).

Third, it's wishful thinking to consider trading Moreno. Most teams will, again, be cap strapped. I know, I know, supporters of each team (like Haig and El Jefe and many others) will insist their teams have tons of cap room. Some teams (like Columbus) are more cap pressured than others. But no-team is in great cap shape. Most will get cap room by cutting or retiring big name players (Ramos, Stoichkov or Nowak) and that requires finding a replacement for that player. I don't think there are many teams that have the cap room to take Moreno. And those that do, probably don't have many players we'd want to take.

The reality is that MLS has now evolved into something like the NBA. Trades (especially with big money players) are nearly impossible to work out. So many many free transfer players out there, it is usually better to just cut someone outright, than acquire a player who's been cut or on a free transfer. Quick example: who would you rather have--Milton Reyes or Danny Califf? I'd prefer Reyes by a long shot. But Califf probably makes more money.

Moreno and Etcheverry and Richie Williams are probably gone (and maybe Pope as well). Not b/c they can't play and don't contribute. But b/c Hudson can get players who can play better for less money.

 

I wouldn't have a problem seeing any of these guys go. I would actually prefer it! Let's rebuild this mess. I'll give Hudson one more year...and please Ray..try to find some U.S. born talent! I'm pretty sure there's some out there.

 

Just after the WC, the rumors began flying about certain US Nats going to Europe: Beasley, Donavan (again), McBride (again), and even Pope. Now Eddie turned down offers some years back when he probably was more markeable. Does anyone know if he is still in demand abroad? And how about Nelson? I thought he had a chance to move to England, maybe even the Premier League. If those two go, Hudson/Kasper have an even bigger job to do.

 

First, if Pope goes, Hudson, et. al. would have an EASIER job to do. It's not that Pope is a bad player. He isn't--he's among the class in the league and if he attacked more, he'd get more visibility.

But the problems DCU's braintrust faces have little to do with talent and more to do with the salary cap. If Pope were gone that would free up one max salary spot.

Second, the transfer market is depressed. TV deals fell through and most teams were budgeting for money they didn't get. Consequently, there was almost no movement and lots of free transfers. For MLS this was complicated by MLS driving a hard bargain. A deal was set for Beasley, he announced he was going and then feel through b/c (a) another youngster was available to Feyenoord on a free transfer and (b) MLS was insisting on a fee of $2million+ for DMB. Ditto for McBride (who is supposed to be VERY bitter towards MLS).

Third, at one point Pope was part of a team that won many games, were champions, and was surrounded by good friends. Assuming Williams is let go, there will be very few people on the team Pope is supposed to be close to. He's on a long-time loser (we're worse than SJ was now). He was asked prior to the WC and his response (a very safe and political one) was that he was happy at DCU but that he'd obviously have to consider any offers and if he were to go overseas, he was running out of time.

I admire Eddie as a player and person--he's a class act. If we're ever going to do stuff outside of MLS, we'll need a defender like Pope--Nelsen and Prideaux aren't even close (even though they had good seasons) b/c at higher levels, you need guys who can play an aeriel game, yet are fast, quick, good technical ability. Pope has his down moments as a player (and then there's the injuries). But if I needed an MLS defender to come up big on a big stage, Pope would be my choice. Having said that, we could have 3 very good defenders for the price of one Eddie Pope. Losing Eddie Pope (while I would hate to see it happen) would actually make Hudson's job of improving the team much, much easier.

 

Keepers:
Nick Rimando was our best player this year, and is probably the most obvious person on the staying list. Mike Ammann seems like a good person, but I doubt he's going to even play again, much less start over Rimando. We should waive him, in our interest and in his. If we can find a better keeper, or a younger/equal keeper to McGinty, we should make the switch. Otherwise, I'm not really concerned.

Defense:
This is our strong suit...for the only time ever, actually. Pope, Nelsen, and Reyes have to stay, and Prideaux should only go if we can get something we really need (read: striker) for him. McKinley should go if we're going to keep him as a defender first. Namoff has shown to be a decent marking back, and I think he's a good depth player. We could use one more young defender, just for depth purposes.

Midfield:
Here's where the bigger changes should occur. Alavanja has had no positive impact all season long, and we really need to waive him and move on.
After the decision to play Chino over Williams against Dallas (where there was nothing stopping Williams from playing), I think Ray is leaning towards waiving Williams. He certainly can't play as a lone defensive midfielder, in either a 4 or 5 man midfield. The combination of Convey and Chino was impressive, and much more offensively able. In a 352, McKinley also has a spot on the team, as a holding distributor. Ben Olsen is a player we should keep as long as we can, obviously. Villegas is a frustrating player, as I figured he would be. He makes some incredible errors ("Hey Rodrigo, remember when we played together? Let's pretend we still do!"), but also does some really good things. We can keep him around as long as we find better players to start over him. Mapp has left me distinctly unimpressed, but I realize not every 16 year old is Tino or Convey. I'll be fine with keeping him, though if we can trade him for another P40 player I wouldn't be at all upset.

The big question in midfield is Etcheverry. Do we keep him? Does he retire? His form in the second half of the season has been better than it has been since '99. On the other hand, it might be time to let Convey run the team. Convey's finally showing he might prove me wrong (I've beens saying he's better wide for quite awhile), and he's lost his "deer-in-headlights" look in front of goal. That said, a player like Etcheverry isn't just tossed aside. We can't keep him to sit the bench, so I really wonder what happens. Hudson has a lot of thinking to do here.

Forwards:
First of all, we all know Lassiter and Zambrano won't be sticking around. Lassiter has been the definition of useless. Zambrano, for all his buzzing about and his willingness to shoot, is still a man with goals in 30-odd career MLS matches. Not to mention he's only got a couple inches on Richie.

Quintanilla is promising, though I don't think we'll succeed with him as a starter in the next year. Ali Curtis is also a good bench player...cheap, fit, and a good substitute. He's got a great attitude as well, even if he's not a juggernaut of technique. Obviously, we'll keep Quaranta as long as we possibly can.

Keeping Moreno is a very simple issue. If he works his ass off in the offseason, gets his head together, and regains his confidence, then we keep him. However, if he comes back without any of those 3 factors not taken care of, then he has to go. One of the saddest things I've seen in this sport is Moreno hesitating to shoot, his once-high confidence ruined. If we do move to get rid of him, I would hope we try to pull a Wegerle for Lassiter type deal.

 

DCU needs to first set priorities. I see them as this:

1) Get a goal scorer. One with height.
2) Pick a starting 11 that is likely to stay healthy
3) Get people on the same page

As for #1, we should just do what we can. I know goal scorers are hard to find, but that is what we are missing.

Our job would become easier if Moreno returns to health. DC needs to evaluate his injuries. If he cannot get healthy, he has got to go. But, if he can be ready for next year, he helps in several ways.
- can score (taking pressure off the *new* goal scorer we bring in, and Quaranta)
- works well with Etch
- is one of the best players in the league

Early in the season, I felt that Alegria could not cover much of the field, and did not have enough speed. However, as the season progressed, he improved in both those areas. He also has started to work with Etch. I think he has potential as a starter for next year. If he figures out Convey and Olsen, we could have something.

You could see when Olsen came back that DC seemed to reach some kind of threshhold. I felt that DC was constantly playing too many weak players because we didn't have the depth to make up for our injuries. (The way MLS is set up with salary caps, MLS teams cannot afford that kind of depth.) DC could get away with 1 or 2 weak or new players, but not 4 or 5, as we often had to do this year (and the past 2 years.)

But now (meaning the last few games) most of our starters are quality players. If we can get the forwards back, DC could be a top team. The difference was Olsen, Etch's return to form, and an improving Alegria. On the other hand, our defense started to suffer because we lost Nelsen.

So I see our starting lineup for next year look like this:

K: Rimando
D: Reyes, Pope, Nelsen, Prideaux
M: Convey, Etch, Alegria Olsen
F: Moreno, Quaranta

Get a goal scorer, and put hiim in that lineup. If Moreno can't make it, things get tougher. We have some depth if we keep:

Namoff: Shows improvement every game, is cheap
Williams: Can be used in a 5-mid setup, or to use in situations where a player needs to be taken out of a game.
Curtis: Break away speed for playing against ball control teams (like everyone does to us.)
Quinanilla: He's talented, but he needs to learn to work with Olson, Etch, Convey, and the other forward.
Villegas: I don't know. He does great things, and then he does, uh, not so great things.
Mapp: We need some potential future players on the roster.

Get rid of Alevanja, Lassiter, Zambrano

Does anybody know potential strikers that DC could realisticall get? I've heard the Crew have a few too many.

 

Chacon? Washington?