How would the FireQuakes do in EPL?

Discussion in 'MLS: General' started by dred, Dec 3, 2003.

  1. dred

    dred Member+

    Nov 7, 2000
    Land of Champions
    It's been hours since we've had a really pointless thread to debate on, so here goes:

    I say the starting 11 of

    --------Donovan Ralph
    DMB Mulrooney Armas Mullan
    Agoos Boca Curtin Dayak
    -----------Onstad

    would be pretty damn good. Especially when you consider that guys like Robinson, Razov, Dunivant, Ekelund, Ching, De Rosario, CJ Brown, Andy Williams, Walker, Thornton and Corrales would vie for spots.

    You'd be hard-pressed to find a midfield as disruptive as this one anywhere. The D would be savvy and the frontline dangerous.

    I'd say this team could finish mid-table in any league, certainly avoid relegation. It could counter well, or play high-pressure defense.

    If nothing else, it shows just how good MLS could be if they added another million to the salary cap.

    Also, note that you could insert Thornton and one of the quality backup strikers and have an all-american 11 that would be just about as good as this one.

    Flame away.
     
  2. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Member

    Feb 7, 2004
    Go Wolves!
     
  3. Tony Cheval

    Tony Cheval New Member

    Mar 17, 2000
    Colorado
    Other than Agoos getting hopelessly torched by EPL attackers, and the lack of attacking Cmid options, not too shabby. :D
     
  4. Foots

    Foots Member

    Jan 7, 2002
    Ellicott City, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    maybe top ten but not top five
     
  5. Serie Zed

    Serie Zed Member

    Jul 14, 2000
    Arlington
    Would struggle in the EPL, but probably be top half of Division One.

    Keep in mind that a 40-year old Everton rejected about ten years ago just won the league MVP.

    If you want an one objective measure, that is.
     
  6. bunge

    bunge BigSoccer Supporter

    Oct 24, 2000
    Are you really suggesting that the MVP vote is objective? I would have to question your intelligence that is in fact what you're doing.
     
  7. Tmagic77

    Tmagic77 Member+

    Feb 10, 2003
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    McBride, who wasn't in the MVP running, was the most productive offensive player at Everton during the time he spent there last year.
     
  8. dabes2

    dabes2 Member

    Jun 1, 2003
    Chicago
    I had this same thought process watching a relatively early season Fire-Metro match. I was thinking that Howard, Pope, Bocangra, Mathis, Beasley, Razov, Ralph could step into an EPL match and do a decent job. But I concluded that there wasn't a straw to stir the drink to create a top EPL team.

    I think the same is true for the FireQuake roster although Donovan has the potential to be a real star.

    But, I think if you added say Thierry Henry and Sol Campbell to either combination you would have a team that contends for a European spot.
     
  9. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC


    Didn't some team in Scotland reject Viera about 10 years ago?

    Didn't Juve let Henry go a few years ago?

    If you want an one objective measure, that is.

    Teams make big mistakes.

    Not to mention that Everton has been known for the ability to spot talent.
     
  10. Elninho

    Elninho Member+

    Sacramento Republic FC
    United States
    Oct 30, 2000
    Sacramento, CA
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wasn't Scotland... Patrick Vieira was rejected by a club in China in 1995. He went to AC Milan the next season, failed to settle, and signed for Arsenal in 1996.
     
  11. Rommul

    Rommul Member

    Aug 26, 2003
    NYC
    I stand corrected but my point was made.
     
  12. kpaulson

    kpaulson New Member

    Jun 16, 2000
    Washington DC
    Not really. The style of play of the leagues is so much different that success or failure in one league may not say as much about how well a player could do in the other league.

    The English guys I have to listen to will go on and on about how players-- honest to god world-class players like Veron-- have to adapt to the "pace" of the premiership. And, some of these guys will draw the conclusion that this means the premiership is a better league than Spain or Italy or that those players aren't as good as advertised.

    I disagree: the way I see it the English games values its physicality and speed perhaps a bit too much to really get the best out of "clever" players. Guys like Preki probably lost the speed necessary to play in the premiership years ago but didn't lose the talent necessary to play soccer at a high level.

    So what would that mean if MLS teams met up with EPL teams? Well, IIRC, West Brom's salary budget last year was about 4 times a MLS team's budget. But MLS teams probably do get more than they pay for -- the average MLS salary of about a 100k is equal to the average Division 2 salary, but yet almost every MLS team has a player or two that would be fringe EPL-caliber. That FireQuakes roster has at least 3 fringe EPL players and 6-7 guys I think would get a spot in the First Division. In short, I think you're looking at a team that could be a very good first division team, probably even vie for promotion and, hence, be an EPL team.

    But if your outside backs are Goose and Dayak (the guys whose skills I think would translate the least well in the EPL), I think you'd have to score a lot more goals than your LD-Ralph-Beas-Mullan unit has managed in MLS...
     
  13. Fah Que

    Fah Que Member

    Sep 29, 2000
    LA
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Your post looks to me a like a euro*#*#*#*#*#*#*# who is trying to pick some bone to accomplish a cheap shot rather than trying to be objective.

    A truely objective person would consider all the factors and list all the cases and put things in perspective before making a judgingment like maybe posters are trying to do here.
     
  14. Jim Dow

    Jim Dow New Member

    Mar 20, 1999
    Belmont, MA
    Just to fan the flames a bit, and I totally admit to the subjectivity of this, Fox Sports World put the Fire and Quakes as individual teams in their top 50 clubs in the world. The only EPL teams ahead of them were the usual suspects Merch U, the Arse, Chelski and, I think, Liverpool was behind the Fire and ahead of the Quakes. Now, of course, this means very, very little but then so do the blatherings about how poor MLS teams are when compared to the sacred rat race aka the Premiership.

    Food for thought in the long, cold winter.

    JIM DOW
     
  15. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nice lineup.

    I would say top 1/2 of the table for sure. There are plenty of average clubs that this group could beat. I know many footie purist rip the talent of the MLS, so why don't we have some exhibition matches with European clubs and our top clubs??? Would be interesting? Just to see how true our talent really is?
     
  16. dawgpound2

    dawgpound2 Member

    Mar 3, 2001
    Los Angeles, CA
    Would most agree that 1860 Munich could hold their own in the Premiership? I'd say "yes".

    Well, 1860 played the Galaxy to a tough 0-0 draw that most everyone thought the Galaxy could have EASILY won. This was not an exhibition.

    Oh, and that was without Carlos Ruiz and Dan Califf.



    Ah, whatever.
     
  17. clashcityrocker

    Mar 12, 1999
    In the shadow of RFK
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    This would be better, and more competitive:

    --------Razov Ralph
    ---------Donovan
    DMB ------------------Mullan
    ------Mulrooney Armas
    ---Boca Dayak Robinson
    -----------Onstad

    I went with the fastest players for the backline...Much as I'd love to put Agoos in there, I think that he would be a little too sloooooow in the center.
     
  18. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Re: Nice lineup.

    It has already happened. Earlier this year DC United beat T. Hotspur 1-0 in D.C. Before anyone makes excusess...they were both full strength sides,..yes that means Teddy Sherrigham and Robbie Keene both played the full 90 and the starting line-up was almost exactly the same as their line up in EPL.
     
  19. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  20. Catfish

    Catfish Member

    Oct 1, 2002
    Chicago
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Re: Re: Nice lineup.

    DOH! Thanks for the heads-up. See. MLS clubs can compete even if it was against a sorry side they play a certain venue dubbed 3pt lane...lol. Sorry couldn't resist.
     
  21. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  22. Onionsack

    Onionsack BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 21, 2003
    New York City
    Club:
    FC Girondins de Bordeaux
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I guess I am just a posting machine today......

    That Fire Quakes side you mentioned would finish (IMO) about 6-10th. Outside of the big 6 in EPL the rest of the league really isn't that good. Top to Bottom the EPL is weaker than most pro leagues, granted they do boast some of the best teams in the world and the gap from top to bottom is not as bad as say Scottish football.

    The reason everyone thinks MLS teams can not compete is because most people who say those things still think MLS level of play is on par from 1996. I think the best MLS team would fair better than Leads in the EPL.
     
  23. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    kpaulson is clearly not as silly as he looks.

    He is correct in saying that many MLS teams are a mixed bag with some good players who would get into quite a few EPL sides, a few who are are 2nd Div journeyman and the bulk who are good 1st division/lower EPL level.

    I've finally got around to watching my recording of the MLS cup and the player that stood out to me most was Beasley. I honestly think this kid could slot into quite a few EPL clubs pretty much straight away.

    However, the poor lad at right back, Roner, who I've seen play only once before, would struggle in a 2nd Div side on that evidence. To be fair to the lad I tend to think he was 'having one' as we say over here. He came on and pretty much headed the ball straight into his own net and then proceeded to give away a penalty within about 5 minutes. If any of you saw the Madrid derby recently you'll recognise the Roner lookalike, (more accurately, play-alike), as Diego Simeone who couldn't put a foot right... I bet Beckham was pleased.

    In a sense I think that talking about players coming straight into the EPL as opposed to another euro league is a bit of a false comparison. Specifically I think that some MLS players would be better suited to, say, the French or German league. The reason for this is because as kpaulson, (hereinafter referred to as 'Our Resident Expert'), says, the EPL IS faster.

    A recent article on the BBC said about Marcel DeSailly

    'He found the move to English soccer a big culture shock and was forced to start almost from scratch when he moved to England because of the difference in the style of play.

    "It's a more violent, a faster game. I came from Milan, where the game was more intellectual, more orderly, almost quiet," he said.'

    As you folks say, check it out... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/c/chelsea/3280873.stm

    However kpaulson is incorrect if he thinks that people over here, (at least the ones that know about the game), don't realise that this style of play reduces the ability of players to develop skills which can best be described as 'silky'.
     
  24. kpaulson

    kpaulson New Member

    Jun 16, 2000
    Washington DC
    Though I do look pretty silly....

    Fair enough, but that's not quite the point. I think probably most of the guys I watch games with here are critical of how England develops players.

    BUt what about players who have already developed those skills? When we talk about a non-English player coming in, the "silky" skills are almost derided. Cristiano Ronaldo is a "luxury" (maybe he's not the best example, but I hope you can see where I'm coming from). Veron can't hack it because he's "not as good as advertised"... With all due to respect to the epl as one of the world's greatest leagues, I don't think its style of play fits some of the world's greatest players.

    To bring it back down to MLS level: I think Preki is pretty damn good. His age and "speed" may mean that he couldn't cut it even in Division 3, but I'd still take the Wizards over Torquay in a heartbeat.
     
  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh NC
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    At 9 of the 11 positions, this team would do pretty well. The fullbacks are ghastly. You could trade Goose and Bocanegra. Or start Dunivant.

    Or take advantage of the talent mismatches and sell Thornton and Andy Williams to get a pair of decent fullbacks.

    The notion that this squad, even as is, couldn't stay up is just silly. Of course they could stay up. They're better than Everton, for example.
     

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