How wither D3?

It's clear from where I sit that the PDL is primarily responsible for the decline (and impending death) of D3. I'm not so sure that's necessarily bad. The PDL is extremely important to the future of soccer in this country.

 

Yes, several teams have opted to move from D3 to the PDL in recent years - just in the Northeast: Cape Cod (2 years ago), Rhode Island (last year), and South Jersey (this year) have made the switch. For a while, the moves downward were balanced by teams moving the other way, from D3 to PDL (eg Westchester, New York). But now the trend definitely seems to be one-way.

 

Frank Marcos: Pay me now or pay me later.

 

Yup, typo. Sorry about that.

 

Actually the separation had nothing to do with the NCAA, the separation happened in the mid 90s when the whole USL Outdoor was Amateur, and 1/2 the teams voted to form a pro (PSL) league. As for salaries, Utah pays the players $50.00 per game, the biggest hit, besides salaries, are the team fee's, the USL charges a ton more franchise fee and yearly fee to the D3 than the PDL. Money becomes a big issue. Fewer teams mean more travel costs. I think it is a doomed league unless the USL can lower the fee's and convince some amateur teams to turn pro again.

 

I just don't get this.

What about the PDL is so "extremely important" to the future of soccer?

It's a place to play in the summer, and in that role it's doing pretty well, but there's darn little in the way of "development" going on. Part time players, part time coach, a couple practices a week, mostly just game prep.

They can call it "Professional Development" if they want, but it's not much more than a glorified beer league.

With regard to the PDL being "responsible for the demise of D3", PDL has nothing to do with D3 teams losing money by the bushel and fewer owners being willing to take the bath.

But since the two really don't compete, what possible connection is there?

If a D3 team in Toledo closes up shop, is the PDL team in Dayton responsible for it somehow? There's just no connection.

Minor league soccer is amoney loser. Always has been. There's no deeper reason.

As for the pro/amateur split, it occurred at the USISL owners' meetings in Greensboro in 1995.

With regard to money, PDL is a long ways from cheap. Franchise fee is $45,000, (supposed to go up again in 2003) and estimated yearly expenses (USL's own estimate) are well over $100,000.

 

Okay, leaving aside the question of player development, here is how I view the PDL as being important to the future of soccer.

There are 10 MLS teams in this country. Large parts of the country couldn't care less about those teams. They care more about their kids playing youth leagues or high school soccer.

There are 55 PDL teams in this country. Granted, most of them don't draw more than friends and family to their games. But a growing number are attracting interest in their local communities. I see it in my own community. With the first three owners, the Vermont Voltage were awful on the field and drew piddling crowds. Sort of the "beer league" scenario you mentioned. But the 4th owner was apparently the charm. With the correct marketing, the team now draw 1000 fans per game (the official figure for PDL games is less than that, but the team also schedules August exhibition games which actually draw better than the regular-league portion of the schedule).

Anyway, continuing with my point, I see the PDL as a potential bridge between the disconnected worlds of youth soccer and pro soccer. The kids who go to Voltage camps and go to Voltage games are beginning to follow the sport (and the PLAYERS). As more and more PDL players get into MLS (regardless of whether their PDL experience helped them get there, which seems to be a big complaint of yours), these young fans might start turning an eye toward the TV to see how their old pal from Voltage camp/games is doing in the pros.

I'm not saying it's an overnight thing. Hell, the Voltage haven't had a player drafted yet (well, one was taken by the A-League), so this is still a dream! But it's all part of the process.

And if not the PDL, what?

 

By the way, let me correct myself. There are only 51 PDL teams this season - not 55. Still a net growth of 4 teams, I think, over last season. In this era of league contraction.

 

Net growth, schmet growth.

Or something.

A wise man (which means he lost money in the soccer business - a LOT of money) once told me that what Frank Marcos sells is dreams.

All PDL expansion means is that there's a sellers market in dreams.

Look, I'm not down on PDL, but it is grossly oversold. Fact is that until it serves as an alternative road to professional soccer outside the NCAA (ptoooey!!) then it CAN'T be anything but a stay-in-shape-and-play-some-ball kind of a league.

The number of fans some teams may or may not draw is immaterial.

The resources and the coaching are in College. PDL teams with minimal budgets, part time players holding down summer jobs, part time coaches, limited practices (a couple times a week) and a short season (has to be over by Aug 1 or so) just aren't contributing much to "development" of anybody.

Last year, two players without college experience were drafted out of the PDL. Neither are on an MLS roster today (or at least they weren't last I looked)

I would dearly LOVE to see PDL to play a role. I just don't see the scenario where it can happen.

 

Oh, I see. You're a college guy. Do you not think the two can co-exist? They seem to be co-existing okay right now. I certainly don't advocate the PDL as an "alternative" to college. I happen to think college soccer is a good thing. It has a built-in fan base, for one thing.

As many have documented, there are some problems with using college as a developmental path as well. Barring a revolution in the NCAA (which we know isn't going to happen), something "else" is needed. A summer league with similar - but DIFFERENT - talent and coaching - surely can't hurt.

And I hope it continues to be "oversold" as long as more and more teams seek to enter it. Most of these new teams that are entering are established youth clubs that are seeking to expand to another age group (U-23). The Williamsburg Legacy, Raleigh CASL Elite, Jersey Shore Boca, Albany Blackwatch, etc. These are not just some quasi-rich soccer nuts who - on a lark - decide "hey, why don't I try to run a soccer team?" and then fold the next season. These soccer clubs are legitimate business enterprises. They see a need and an opportunity.
Time will tell if they're right.

 

No, as a matter of fact I think college soccer is a horrible impediment to real development.

But it's the only game in town. As long as they have control of the process, we're stuck.

That's why USSF and MLS are attempting to short-circuit the NCAA by expanding the U17 residency and then signing the best players before they ever get there.

And my point still stands, no matter how many clubs use PDL as an extension of Super Y.

 

Well, I guess I still don't understand your point, so let's leave it at that. I'm not into the "player development" scene; I'm just a fan. And I think having a nationwide amateur league that actually attempts to attract fans to its games is a good thing.

 

I don't think the USL is doing an selling of PDL teams, the idea sells itself. They are not starting new teams because they are told it will be great, they are starting new teams because they want that 'in their area'.

Running fan websites, I get lots of people wanting to know how to start USL teams, obviously since they are asking me, they were NOT contacted by anyone from the USL asking them to start a team, they are just 'soccer nuts' wanting a team in their area.

Right now the PDL supplements college soccer, doesn't compete with it. If you look at the mission of most of some of the PDL teams, it is their goal to have college players there in the summer months, so they go back to school in better shape and with more skills. Playing in the PDL gives you a chance at experience you would not otherwise get.

Look at the status of the MLS draft and the affect the PDL had on it http://www.uslsoccer.com/press/pub/topfiveshow.asp?ID=81 and it will make some sense.

 

The fact that 32 of the drafted players have also played in the PDL is irrelevant, unless you're suggesting that they were drafted BECAUSE of having played PDL, instead of it being more or less coincidental.

And frankly, many if not most of those guys only played a handful of games. The teams needed them more than they needed the team.

Those guys were drafted because of what they did in college, not what they did in their 2 month summer pickup league.

As for all those people asking you how to start a PDL side ( it seems odd that they contact you instead of, oh I dunno, PDL for example) tell them that a check for $45,000 made out to Frank Marcos, along with a $15,000 letter of credit and a dedicated phone line is all they'll need.

USL estimates the annual expenditure at around $100k.

Call Matt in Florida - if you can get him to return your phone call, (which can be almost impossible sometimes) you too can get in line and start losing money the USL way.

 

Most of the time people contacted me because the USL website was down (last year), and though I state over and over on my sites that I am not part of the USL, people will still ask. Today even, someone from St. Louis was asking if we were interested in putting a W-League team in St. Louis. I started a site called www.w-league.com as a portal to information on the teams and when the USL went down last summer, many people thought my site was part of the USL (I have other similar sites). People that cannot get information from the right source tend to listen to anyone that thinks they know something (me in this case) but all I could do was give them email addresses and wish them good luck.

Anyway you can make out of the 'stats' whatever you want, whether or not the PDL experience had anything to do with it or not, nobody knows. It is just there to interpret how you want. If you don't think the PDL experience had anything to do with it, well I don't know either way, maybe you do.

The only arguing that is going on here is that you are obviously against the PDL for some reason, which is apparent by your remarks, so when someone that is obviously against something starts bashing it, others that are not against it start defending.

I think SueB is right.

 

*sigh*

I am "against" the PDL?

You sounded much smarter than this, or I wouldn't have bothered with you. Forget I said anything.

FYI: The USL site didn't go "down". "Out" might be a better term.

 

Sorry if I misunderstood, it just seems that you are trying to diminish anything the PDL does. Terms like 'summer pickup league' do not imply that you think it is more than just something to do with the summer.

Some teams do not use their teams as 'development' teams, they use them to try to get the best players and win and make money. I guess that is OK, it does not help the true 'development' PDL teams, but they are within the rules.

The site had the plug pulled, to be technically correct. The servers were ended up being auctioned by Level3. Whatever you call it, it was then inaccessible and never has been accessible since then. I was fortunate enough to have been contacted by someone 'high up' in Umbro that gave me the whole story. http://www.pdlsoccer.com/uslsoccer.htm - so however you interpret it, whether the site was down or out.

That is what I cannot figure, I made a simple statement about the USL site and you try and correct me on it, and either way was the same result, then I interpret your negative posts as against the USL and you then imply that I am not as intelligent as you thought. I don't think my intelligence has anything to do with what your statements are saying. I think you just like to argue.

 

I think you're right on the mark with that last comment, fanmaster!

Anyway, against my better judgment, I have to "call" Bill on one of his major points. No matter what you say, the fact that 32 players with PDL experience were drafted IS a good sign for the league. Even if the PDL cannot claimed to have "develop" those players, the fact that so many top college players are seeking to play on PDL teams must mean SOMETHING, no? If the competition and organization sucks THAT BAD, why would they do it?

I think your point is that the PDL shouldn't declare itself a "developmental league". Fine, whatever. Call it the "National Amateur League". USL leagues change their names every couple of years anyway.

 

Well you can have it your way, but to me, a team that plays a 16-18 game schedule from May through July and is primarily intended for players who are out on their summer vacation from school is, by definition, a summer league.

Perhaps we have differing definitions of the term "summer"

Yessir, the PDL franchise: a liscense to print money.

You said the server was "down". What you just described is a little more serious than "down"

Deceased perhaps.

Well now, somebody "high up" in Umbro.

Be still my beating heart.

The story is very well known. I'm sure though that the Umbro guy had an "interesting" spin on it.



Look, it isn't at all like you and Nancy want to imply, just a quibble about the word "Development"

You see, the way most people find it convenient to use the language, words actually MEAN something.

So when you say that PDL is "developing" players, and I say "no, they really aren't", you apparently have a panic attack.

Argueing, not arguing, it isn't the point, and neither is changing the name of the league.

The POINT was that the league has limited resources, little money and a bunch of part time players. They really are not "developing" much of anything.

Is it a bad thing or a good thing that 32 college players with a few games of PDL experience got drafted?

The answer is neither; it just is what it is.